Tuner thinks something is wrong after trying 3.5 tune

[KERMA]

I think you need to ask that question to your tuner. I am surprised they are not being more supportive.

 

[turbobrick240]

Did you get the cr170 plastic intake pipe with the turbo?

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

I think you need to ask that question to your tuner. I am surprised they are not being more supportive.

Yeah, me too. Granted, Malone is on vacation this week.

Did you get the cr170 plastic intake pipe with the turbo?

Yes. And the outlet, egt spacer, ect. All of the the proper cr170 bits.

 

[Keir@malonetuning.com]

We can also only help what we know about or can help with in some sort of useful way.

Without having the car in front of us, doing troubleshooting by email or phone is quite difficult and often times utterly frustrating for everyone involved.

We tend to leave hardware configurations to those that install it as they can as you can see here can lead to quite a few issues.

Do you know if you've ever sent logs to us directly ( or through your tuner ? ) The normal measuring blocks we need can be found right on our website: http://malonetuning.com/assets/files/vagcom_logging_guide.pdf

If you can get these and email them to me, Mark and I will look them over and see how we can help. We've tuned our fair share of 170's so I don't think our file would be the issue ( not going to rule it out, until we can )

Logs to me, and we'll see what we can see. Please send the actual log file not a screengrab.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

I understand there being doubtfulbess in ones work when it comes to such indepth work as I have done but, in my defense, I had a well know and trusted TDI mechanic with me when installing the turbo, head, cams, timing belt and vacuum pump. My local tuner knows him and works with him on occasion. The tuner did pull logs, that is when he saw the actual boost far behind requested boost. He says it should be about 1.5 seconds sooner than mine is.

I will get the logs, post them here and email them to you.

 

[Keir@malonetuning.com]

I'm not trying to question you or your mechanics apptitude, but as you've seen things do happen over the course of these kind of installs, and while we try and provide as much support as we can, I'm sure anyone like yourself or others can imagine what trying to troubleshoot issues could be over the course of a swap like this can get into.

Best thing we can do is start with logs and go from there!

 

[AARodriguez Corp.]

I think you need to ask that question to your tuner. I am surprised they are not being more supportive.

You and Madness can take a hike.

He had a Stage 2 custom tune working great, providing full requested boost within 1.3 seconds of putting the pedal to the floor, it is a 3.5 seconds now. Fast forward, he cracks his head somehow, get a new one with cams that are designed a bit different than the ones that came stock in his 2009. Brand new head comes with brand new cams, but he wants to put the old cams in the new head. This makes him the first ever to do this mod...what should we call that, "Madness's Old Cam Mod"?

He also installs a CR170 by himself and and supposedly did it correctly....but breaks down enroute to our shop because he lost all his coolant half way through his journey.
He gets here, we put the Stage 3.5 tune on, it lags like crazy, he says it ran better with the Stage 2 tune, so I put the Stage 2 back on, log it, it lags even worse. Same tune, many hardware variables changed and he didn't want to pay for any diagnostics at our shop. I worked for free that day and I did in the past also when he couldn't do his own egr cooler delete. I have a 40 email string from him this time for support and ideas to check, that doesn't count towards the replies and ideas I gave on Facebook.

The tuner has provided everything needed to rule out a tune issue and he didn't want to pay for a professional to find the problem and fix his car.
Madness = Officially banned from my shop, you can buy a Flashzilla or find another dealer that wants to work for free and get this appreciation

Originally Posted by KERMA View Post
I think you need to ask that question to your tuner. I am surprised they are not being more supportive.

Yeah, me too. Granted, Malone is on vacation this week.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

AARodriguez, Not once did I mention you in this thread as I was trying to not throw you under the bus. Further more, I have done every test you mentioned and they have all checked out. Your whole stance on this problem is, "Its not the tune."

In those emails, you asked me to say that you were right about it not being the actuator adaption and I did.

I got the stage 2 custome tune in April '15, my head cracked sometime in May '15. The 1st time I was low on coolant was at SOWO '15.

I only reused the old exhaust cam because it has the lash gear, the new exhaust cam does not. The old exhaust cam did not have any defects. I asked around on here if there would be any draw backs, which you did not chime in on, and everybody else said it was fine. I used the new intake cam. I also purchased the the $760 special cam timing tool, that you refuse to purchase because you believe you wont ever do this amount of work, to do the job correctly.

If you want to try to point the finger at me for doing mechanical work that you will never do, that leaves nothing but pure, hollow, speculation on your end. Every test, you have suggested, we have ran and they all say its the tune.

You also had another customer that cracked his head after getting a stage 2 tune from you.

On the EGR cooler delete. You just looped the coolant lines and I asked what you would charge, I didnt ask you to do it as a favor. The coolant leak I had was from that loop that you did. It had nothing to do with the head or the turbo.

I physically removed the EGR cooler and associated components myself. If you recall, you sent me a link for the plug I needed for the cr140. Which I went and bought and used. I deleted the EGR cooler AFTER I came to the conclusion that I was loosing coolant through the exhaust.

Lastly, you still owe me atleast a stage 3 tune. I bought the CR170 when you had that sale "Buy a cr170 and get a free Stage 3 Malone tune uprgrade." That was if the buyer already had a stage 2, which you and I both have confirmed that I do have.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

I felt Kerma was commenting on the lack of MaloneTuning presents on this thread, not you. Which is what I replied to because nobody from MaloneTuning had commented at that time. Nor had I recieved a reply from MaloneTuning on an email that I had sent the other day.

 

[AARodriguez Corp.]

I felt Kerma was commenting on the lack of MaloneTuning presents on this thread, not you. Which is what I replied to because nobody from MaloneTuning had commented at that time. Nor had I recieved a reply from MaloneTuning on an email that I had sent the other day.

You received a reply from Mark Malone through me, that should be good enough. (It's not)

You have decided that, "There is not a problem with your car because we have not suggested a test that pinpoints the cause of the problem." It doesn't work like that. You'd rather argue that the tune should be written for a 4 bar map sensor, that's the cause of your boost lag off the line, the car only has a 3 bar map sensor and tune for the 3 bar. The 3 bar map sensor is confusing the car and causing the lag!

You are not qualified to be testing the car and determining the results. Last week I showed you what a mityvac was and gave you a general overview of what it is and how someone could use it to do diagnostics on a car.

 

[AARodriguez Corp.]

You also had another customer that cracked his head after getting a stage 2 tune from you.

You're listening skills are lacking, it was cracked before the tune and turbo upgrade, he'd be happy to verify that.

Lastly, you still owe me atleast a stage 3 tune. I bought the CR170 when you had that sale "Buy a cr170 and get a free Stage 3 Malone tune uprgrade." That was if the buyer already had a stage 2, which you and I both have confirmed that I do have.

Sure, buy a Flashzilla or go see another dealer, I'll give them the file free of charge, you can pay them for their labor.

 

[JFettig]

Yup, this is absolutely insane. I opted out of this thread instead of calling BS and causing a stink, until I realized exactly what was going on and who you were working with and the amount of effort Andrew has gone though to help you. If you were my customer and did this to me, I'd instantly write you off.

You sent me a PM when you started this thread titled "I hear you are the CR170 Guru.", I took the time to read it and give you useful info to check into, attempted to help you out but you never answered my question, now I see why, because the problem is the same and you're still trying to pin it on Andrew or Malone.

It turns out that everything under that hood needs to be in question - especially the cams and the work. If you'd lay off the weed, maybe this thing would have been put together half ways correctly. Pointing fingers does you no good and only annoys people that don't have any obligation to help you fix your hardware problems or even help diagnose it for free. These tunes have been installed on hundreds if not thousands of cars and they all work just fine, its extremely rare that the tune is the problem.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

You received a reply from Mark Malone through me, that should be good enough. (It's not)

You have decided that, "There is not a problem with your car because we have not suggested a test that pinpoints the cause of the problem." It doesn't work like that. You'd rather argue that the tune should be written for a 4 bar map sensor, that's the cause of your boost lag off the line, the car only has a 3 bar map sensor and tune for the 3 bar. The 3 bar map sensor is confusing the car and causing the lag!

You are not qualified to be testing the car and determining the results. Last week I showed you what a mityvac was and gave you a general overview of what it is and how someone could use it to do diagnostics on a car.

How was I suppose to know that a reply was from Mark from you never told me? I dont even know which reply you relayed from him.

I never once argued that the tune should be written for a 4 bar MAP sensor. I speculated that the 3 bar wasnt quite a true 3 bar MAP because the 3.5 tune was requesting 2.9 BARs. After you pointed out that the 2 5 tune was calling for 2.5 BARs, and I was having the same issue, I understand that that aspect of the tune was not the issue.

I bought a similar hand vacuum pump and hooked up just as you instructed, vacuum checked out.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

You're listening skills are lacking, it was cracked before the tune and turbo upgrade, he'd be happy to verify that.
Sure, buy a Flashzilla or go see another dealer, I'll give them the file free of charge, you can pay them for their labor.

That is not what you said.
You told me the head coincidentally cracked after getting the tune.

So now the stage 3 tune upgrade wont be free of charge?

You sent me a PM when you started this thread titled "I hear you are the CR170 Guru.", I took the time to read it and give you useful info to check into, attempted to help you out but you never answered my question, now I see why, because the problem is the same and you're still trying to pin it on Andrew or Malone.

It turns out that everything under that hood needs to be in question - especially the cams and the work. If you'd lay off the weed, maybe this thing would have been put together half ways correctly. Pointing fingers does you no good and only annoys people that don't have any obligation to help you fix your hardware problems or even help diagnose it for free. These tunes have been installed on hundreds if not thousands of cars and they all work just fine, its extremely rare that the tune is the problem.

What question of yours did I not answer?

What makes you think im an incompetent mechanic and drug abuser?

As I stated before, a well known and trusted mechanic local to us (Andrew also knows and trusts him), helped me with installing the new head and cams.

 

[YukonLT]

There is no way it's the tune. Something mechanical is wrong with your car. Sounds like these guys went above and beyond trying to help you with this. I do hope you figure it out, but blaming the tune needs to stop.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

You are not qualified to be testing the car and determining the results.

I tested just as you instructed and you said it was within spec. You determined the results.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

There is no way it's the tune. Something mechanical is wrong with your car. Sounds like these guys went above and beyond trying to help you with this. I do hope you figure it out, but blaming the tune needs to stop.

Im not just blaming the tune. Im on here asking for comparisons, asking for other tests that can be ran, asking for other groups to log.

BUT, Every test that has been ran on the hardware has checked out.

If there are more tests, please tell me so I can run them.

 

[KERMA]

check your cam timing

if that's off a tooth it could cause lag

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

Theres a new suggestion. Thanks.

It was on ny check list but I wanted to make sure everything was sound on the outside 1st.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

This makes him the first ever to do this mod...what should we call that, "Madness's Old Cam Mod"?

Are you saying I'm the 1st person to ever re-use a cam?

I've never heard using old cams labeled as a "mod".

 

[turbobrick240]

Are you saying, I'm the 1st person to ever re-use a cam?

It is fairly unusual if the head came w/ brand new cams. I think it's fairly safe to say the tune is absolutely not your problem.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

It is fairly unusual if the head came w/ brand new cams. I think it's fairly safe to say the tune is absolutely not your problem.

Unusual, maybe, but far from the 1st person ever.

Its also unusual for a head to crack, yet, when it happens weeks after getting a tune, nobody suspects the tune.

Yet when I asked, nobody suggested I use the new over the old one. All I was told was that it wouldn't make a difference.

There was speculation that the old cam was better because of the lash gear but nothing solid.

I'm not only saying the tune is problem. In my OP, I said Im not claiming to be perfect but that I do have and used tools that not even my dealership has.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yet when I asked, nobody suggested I use the new over the old one. All I was told was that it wouldn't make a difference.
There was speculation that the old cam was better because of the lash gear but nothing solid.
I'm not only saying the tune is problem. In my OP, I said Im not claiming to be perfect but that I do have and used tools that not even my dealership has.

Let's face it- you're an amateur. When GDM did my install I didn't have boost leaks, coolant leaks, any leaks, or any problems. Sometimes it's best to just let the pro's do their thing.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

I never said I wasn't an amateur. Sure you didnt have any leaks when you got it back. Im not saying there was a leak when they finished but there is always a chance of snall over sights when doing such work.

The coolant leak I had was not a slow leak. The hose that burst, I did not mess with when I did all of the work I did. The last person to touch it was Andrew. I'm not saying it was his fault, coolant hoses dont last forever but for anybody to blantantly blame that on me is just pure arrogance.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

He had a Stage 2 custom tune working great

Thats subjective.
The stage 2 custom tune never met stage 2 advertized numbers. When I asked if the faulty glow plug would cause that, you said it totally would account for the 10-15 tq loss. When I did replace it and didnt get the gain you said, did I gripe about it? No.
But a few weeks later, my head cracks. Did I blame the tune? No.

He also installs a CR170 by himself and and supposedly did it correctly....but breaks down enroute to our shop because he lost all his coolant half way through his journey

The 1st part of this is a total lie. As I stated previously, Rich helped me with it. But I'll show him what you think of his work.

Also, the cr170 isnt water cooled, so installing the cr170 and the hose bursting have really nothing to do with eachother.

 

[Keir@malonetuning.com]

After reviewing the logs, I do have to agree that you have a mechanical problem, I wanted to be subjective, having seen the logs for requested boost, and actual, yes its lazy, but the tune doesn't make it lazy, its requesting boost, its not getting it. Duty cycle is correct..

I can't really give much more suggestions past that point, as I won't get into e-diagnosing something that could be an install problem, or just a really badly timed co-incidence of a part failure. You've got plenty of support on here for that if you ask the right people in the right manner I'm sure.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

Thanks for takin a look at 'em Keir.

I figured you would come to the same conclusion and not think its the tune.
Do you have any clue as to what could cause it? Or where else I should look? Tests I can run, groups I can log?

How'd the MAF actual look to you? Do you know why the MAF is reading high?

Kerma mentioned the cam timing, I'm not sure if he meant internally or externally but I checked the external gears and everything is on point.

 

[Golf tdi]

Thanks for takin a look at 'em Keir.

I figured you would come to the same conclusion and not think its the tune.
Do you have any clue as to what could cause it? Or where else I should look? Tests I can run, groups I can log?

How'd the MAF actual look to you? Do you know why the MAF is reading high?

Kerma mentioned the cam timing, I'm not sure if he meant internally or externally but I checked the external gears and everything is on point.[/QUOTE

How many miles on the car?

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

165k miles.

 

[MÄDDNESSS]

Other people, with malone tunes and deletes, are reporting 530 on their MAF. I'm only reading 450-460.

What does that say?

I think, "vac leak" but thats been test with a mighty vac hand pump on the turbo actuator. That all checked out.

I pressure tested from the TIP and could find no evidence of a leak.