TSB 20T8-Refueling Adapter

PlaneCrazy

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Just got my car back from its 90,000 km service. There's a new TSB (or recall as it says on my invoice) to retrofit an anti-misfueling adapter, similar to what is standard on the 2013s. However the design is different. This is the adapter installed on my 2011 Golf hatch:



This is the one on my wife's 2013 Golf Wagon:



Between the bright yellow label and the new adapter, my car is now fairly idiot proof :p

I'm just curious to see what impact it will have on "topping up". The one on my wife's 2013 is a PITA for that. But it's her car and she doesn't care about squeezing out the last 50 km from a tank. I haven't explored the new setup to see how easy it is to remove...

Anybody else have this? Am I the first? I did a quick search but didn't turn anything up. VW seems to be really worried about HPFP health...
 

Softrockrenegade

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They are really pushing the misfueling thing...
 

nikhsub1

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They are really pushing the misfueling thing...
As they should... unless you are an enthusiast like we are (a nutty bunch at that) you don't pay attention (or have OCD) when it comes to fueling... People talk about driving into garages with bikes on the roof, same thing. For the person that has a brain fart and tries to put RUG in the car, this will definitely prevent that which can only be a good thing.
 

T100TDI

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It'll be interesting to see if that expands to other models and if it is a true recall or if its a TSB. And if the HPFP problems go down after these are installed on the older models.
 

PlaneCrazy

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As they should... unless you are an enthusiast like we are (a nutty bunch at that) you don't pay attention (or have OCD) when it comes to fueling... People talk about driving into garages with bikes on the roof, same thing. For the person that has a brain fart and tries to put RUG in the car, this will definitely prevent that which can only be a good thing.
More than one piston-engined aircraft has been known to crash because misfueled with jet-A.

The funny thing is that a jet misfueled with avgas will still fly; you can burn almost anything in a furnace... the only thing that may give issues short-term are things like miscalculated range due to different fuel density, etc., which may bite at some point in the flight. But a piston-engined aircraft misfueled with jet fuel will have an engine failure as soon as the residual avgas in the fuel system is burned off. Which for all practical purposes, usually means shortly after takeoff.

With us it's the opposite, gas in a "jet" (diesel fuel and Jet-A are very similar), will cause a major fail.

I guess on the older TDIs a misfuel was simply embarrassing and only required a fuel system flush. Now it's catastrophic.
 

FloridaJohn

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Just got my car back from its 90,000 km service. There's a new TSB (or recall as it says on my invoice) to retrofit an anti-misfueling adapter, similar to what is standard on the 2013s.
That was quick, the TSB was just announced today.

Over on the NTSB thread, there is a rumor that the TSB also includes an additional fuel filter. Any sign of that?
 
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JSWTDI09

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I want to know if this device is easily removable and re-installable like the one in the 2013 models. No one fills my car except me because no one else has the key to the locking fuel cap. I might let the dealer install one of these *IF* I can remove it and then re-install it if my HPFP fails.

Have Fun!

Don
 

PlaneCrazy

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That was quick, the TSB was just announced today.

Over on the NTSB thread, there is a rumor that the TSB also includes an additional fuel filter. Any sign of that?
Mine was the first they did, the service writer hadn't even heard of it until he pulled it out of his system when I showed up for my appointment.

Let's hope that the dealer didn't somehow screw up. I hate being the guinea pig. :eek:

I have this fear that I'll show up at the diesel station running on fumes and the stupid thing will have been incorrectly installed and I won't be able to fill. I'm paranoid enough about dealer service to fill up well before I near empty just to make sure it works, so I can drive it back to the dealer if they messed up.

Still... I've been driving diesels since 1999 with a brief gap from 2002-2004... and my hobby is fuel-critical as well, plus we've also owned gassers alongside diesels, so I'm generally pretty aware of what I'm pumping into my tank so this seems a bit redundant.
 

vwman2

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our 2010 was getting the exhaust flap replaced yesterday and i noticed they installed this. I noticed it on the invoice and then looked at the cap.
 

detroitmike

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Take a guess.
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VW has been selling diesels for how many years? But people have only started misfueling since 2009. OK. :rolleyes:

Just another BS move by VW to avoid the real problem.

FIX THE PUMPS YOU STUPID *****.

That Bosch pump is garbage and everyone knows it. Especially VW. This is just the cheapest way they could come up with to try to get out of the hole they dug themselves into by not addressing the problem the correct way years earlier.
 

BarnyardsTDI

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These would allow for high flow rate nozzles at truck stops, correct? If so that would be cool. If not, I'm doing fine picking the correct handle for the last 60,000 miles. hahah.
 

JSWTDI09

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These would allow for high flow rate nozzles at truck stops, correct?
No! All this does is block the filler hole completely unless there is a 3/4' (25mm) nozzle (the size that used to be used for leaded gas). Most stations use these nozzles for "car sized" diesel pumps. The smaller unleaded gas nozzles will not open the door, so this is supposed to lessen the chance of misfueling with unleaded gasoline.

The problem with this is the "most" in the second sentence. There is no legal requirement in the US for nozzle size for diesel. Therefore, it is possible to find a diesel fuel pump with an unleaded gas sized pump nozzle. It will be difficult to fuel up in this case.

Have Fun!

Don
 
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03_01_TDI

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Denmark
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Na
A blonde could easily slowly pump in a gallon of gas or more before getting tired and driving away thinking the gas tank is broke.

The pump may not be a able to run on junk fuels like the older ones but that doesn't make it junk. More cars have exceeded 100k miles without failures than cars with failures.
 

Virgilstar

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jsw 11
For those of us that use an additive, does this make it more difficult to dump it in prior to fill-up? I currently use a 4oz version of one of these:

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/...on?productId=10000247&N=253&mr=nalgene+bottle
Good point. My optilube comes in a dispenser bottle but there's no way it'll just flow down the hole now. Maybe need to find a bottle with a diesel-nozzle-sized neck, for delivering the additive.

OR... it seems like the "door" is quite a ways down in the pipe, so possibly you could dump in a couple ounces of additive first, then chase it through with the diesel nozzle. Of course, that also means if you try with gasoline, there'll be some gas in the pipe and when you eventually "get it right" that slug of gasoline will get chased into the tank. Not good.
 

85Steve

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when I was working in the construction field, I accidentally filled a diesel F350 with 4 gallons of RUG... boss told me to just fill the rest with diesel and we headed out on a 350 mile trip to Miami from Clermont. That truck ran for another 200k miles before a rod was thrown thru the block! And that was due to the moron that was new, tried to downshift it to first from 45mph! I'm glad the Freightliner Crane I was driving at that time could stop, cause he was in front. But the point it. The Diesels built in our country are built for our poor quality fuels and the lack of common sense (which should be changed to uncommon sense since common has become rare). If the vw cr motor is the one having the biggest issues with fuel system failures in NA, then we need to demand a new pump, one that has a guide for the cam follower at least, so it doesn't turn on itself...
 

No More Buffalo

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Does not compute. It has nothing to with country of origin or use and everything to do with not being built with essentially 1950's technology.
 

PlaneCrazy

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A blonde could easily slowly pump in a gallon of gas or more before getting tired and driving away thinking the gas tank is broke.
The pump may not be a able to run on junk fuels like the older ones but that doesn't make it junk. More cars have exceeded 100k miles without failures than cars with failures.
Inclined to agree. The HPFP on CR diesels runs at unprecedented pressures, unlike the old rotary injection pumps on the 1st generation TDIs. Given that the fuel is the lubricant for the pump, it's a no-brainer that mis-fueling has a greater chance at generating a catastrophic failure than on the old rotary pumps. (The PDs are a different design, pressuring off the camshaft, and that too was a fail design if the wrong engine oil was used, only it was usually the camshaft that failed; also $ to fix though not as much as an HPFP blowing metal throughout the fuel system)

I've just concluded that diesels aren't for everyone. Or rather some people are not meant to own a diesel. VW diesels in particular seem to require more owner involvement and knowledge. I've had all 4-cyl VW diesel designs sold in Canada since the ALH: the 1.9 ALH, the 1.9 PD, the 2.0 PD and the 2.0 CR, and I'm a bit geeky so I certainly knew about the issues with each even before purchasing. But for your average Civcamcordrolla owner that's used to just putting in the key, putting in gas and going, a VW diesel may not be the best choice.

Back on the adapter, for fun I filled up during my lunch hour even though my MFD said over 700 km to empty. No issues. Works like the one on my wife's 2013. Maybe even a bit easier to squeeze in an extra couple of liters after the auto shut-off. The flapper thing seems to be set deeper into the filler pipe than the 2013s. I don't use additives but it seems to me that you might be able to get some in a little bit at a time.

Apparently though, VW (and BMW) do make an adapter so that a non-standard diesel nozzle (read: a station using a RUG nozzle instead of a larger diesel one) can fit in. Apparently it's only a few bucks. You might be able to find the part number by searching this thread. That would solve the issue of stations with wrong nozzles and dumping in a bottle of additive. It also is probably a good thing to have if you're one of those folks that likes to run it down to fumes to see how many miles/km you can squeeze out of a tank and the station you stop at has the wrong size nozzle. I used to be that way, now I just fill every Saturday, which usually works out to being after about 800-900 km on a tank, well before the light comes on (at least in summer).
 

BarnyardsTDI

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No! All this does is block the filler hole completely unless there is a 3/4' (25mm) nozzle (the size that used to be used for leaded gas). Most stations use these nozzles for "car sized" diesel pumps. The smaller unleaded gas nozzles will not open the door, so this is supposed to lessen the chance of misfueling with unleaded gasoline.

The problem with this is the "most" in the second sentence. There is no legal requirement in the US for nozzle size for diesel. Therefore, it is possible to find a diesel fuel pump with an unleaded gas sized pump nozzle. It will be difficult to fuel up in this case.

Have Fun!

Don
Thanks Don. This will not be installed on my car.
 

No More Buffalo

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I'm not sure of the protocol on these... is it 100% mandatory if it goes to the dealer for a normal service, or can you decline it?
 

kjclow

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my understanding is that if it is part of a recall, they have no choice but to put it on. removing it could also give VW enough reason to cancel your warranties.
 

PlaneCrazy

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my understanding is that if it is part of a recall, they have no choice but to put it on. removing it could also give VW enough reason to cancel your warranties.
Especially if the HPFP grenades. I for one am not willing to accept that $8-10k risk for the sake of a minor inconvenience when topping off the tank.
 

bfalke1

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No! All this does is block the filler hole completely unless there is a 3/4' (25mm) nozzle (the size that used to be used for leaded gas). Most stations use these nozzles for "car sized" diesel pumps. The smaller unleaded gas nozzles will not open the door, so this is supposed to lessen the chance of misfueling with unleaded gasoline.

The problem with this is the "most" in the second sentence. There is no legal requirement in the US for nozzle size for diesel. Therefore, it is possible to find a diesel fuel pump with an unleaded gas sized pump nozzle. It will be difficult to fuel up in this case.

Have Fun!

Don
My car is a 2013 and it shipped with the misfueling guard. No issues with it, never seen a pump that didn't use the "right" size, but they are out there, typically smaller country stations from my understanding, which is the exact place I don't trust diesel from, probably old station, tanks rarely cleaned and lots of potential for water/debris/rust in the tank. I'll pass if given a choice.

However, I did buy an adapter given the even of being stranded with no choice but one of these "old school" diesel pump stations, I think it was $10, that allows you to use the high-flow truck stop nozzles and the "gas sized" old school nozzles, and I keep it in the car as a just in case (but it has never been used).

Anything that I can use as further evidence that the problem is VW/Bosch's I am all for, just in case my HPFP ever fails.

But I also use additives every tank - OptiLube summer - year round - gotta love never needing an anti-gel agent, and I am glad that my home state has some of the highest (if not the very highest) required cetane rating for diesel to be sold at 48 minimum retail pump cetane levels.
 

Liberated

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My car is a 2013 and it shipped with the misfueling guard. No issues with it, never seen a pump that didn't use the "right" size, but they are out there, typically smaller country stations from my understanding, which is the exact place I don't trust diesel from, probably old station, tanks rarely cleaned and lots of potential for water/debris/rust in the tank. I'll pass if given a choice.

However, I did buy an adapter given the even of being stranded with no choice but one of these "old school" diesel pump stations, I think it was $10, that allows you to use the high-flow truck stop nozzles and the "gas sized" old school nozzles, and I keep it in the car as a just in case (but it has never been used).

Anything that I can use as further evidence that the problem is VW/Bosch's I am all for, just in case my HPFP ever fails.

But I also use additives every tank - OptiLube summer - year round - gotta love never needing an anti-gel agent, and I am glad that my home state has some of the highest (if not the very highest) required cetane rating for diesel to be sold at 48 minimum retail pump cetane levels.

Ya same with my '13, no issues fueling up.

Where did you buy the adapter for the smaller diesel pumps?
 

Shniba45

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Good point. My optilube comes in a dispenser bottle but there's no way it'll just flow down the hole now. Maybe need to find a bottle with a diesel-nozzle-sized neck, for delivering the additive.

OR... it seems like the "door" is quite a ways down in the pipe, so possibly you could dump in a couple ounces of additive first, then chase it through with the diesel nozzle. Of course, that also means if you try with gasoline, there'll be some gas in the pipe and when you eventually "get it right" that slug of gasoline will get chased into the tank. Not good.
I'm also wondering about this. For those of you with the refueling adapter, is it still possible to pour in an additive?
 

bfalke1

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I'm also wondering about this. For those of you with the refueling adapter, is it still possible to pour in an additive?
Yes, I use Opti-Lube, and I do not use my adapter mentioned above to pour additives, I use the larger of the two small bottles that ship with the gallon, as it lets me insert more fully into the fuel neck.

Liquids will flow pass the fuel guard without issue, it only prevents a nozzle from being inserted that is not right size, it doesn't open without the right size nozzle, but it is not an "airtight" fit.
 

BarnyardsTDI

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Especially if the HPFP grenades. I for one am not willing to accept that $8-10k risk for the sake of a minor inconvenience when topping off the tank.
Good call. Still not sure if I would do it. If it did grendade I'm sure VW would just say "Well he didnt get the adapter installed until 60,000 miles. Must have added gas."
 
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