Trying to start 1999 ALH with full harness and stock components but not in car.

she_loves_the_D

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I have a 1999 alh with full harness (minus taillights), (80 pin) ecu, all 3 pedals, instrument cluster, and ignition with original key. whole steering column actually.

I have been slowly troubleshooting this engine trying to avoid tearing the harness apart. Might try for a full legal swap in california. All orignal emissions components are needed.

My main issue seems to be that it is an 80 pin ecu and an ALH and that only happened in 99 so i cannot find much info. I did find a diagram that seems to work. but none of the fuse diagrams or relay diagrams i find seem to match up exactly.
So i first just tried to just match up what plugs i could and that did not seem to work. I actually got most of them right though lol.

Needed to find a part at a junkyard to i took a bunch of pictures and had a better idea of where the plugs are.

So i wired everything up properly. Just what i have on the engine obviously.
Now when i turn the key i get all the dash lights and the mileage and everything.
however when try to start it, it does not send power to the starter relay.

The ignition is sending power to relay 185 when i turn the key to start. but there is not power going to 185 to jump. If i unplug 185 jump it straight to the battery, it does turn over. 185 seems to be good as it clicks if i jump it manually (not plugged in).

I can get it to turn over by jumping it at the relay. Also i see that there is power going to the fuel cutoff when i jump it.
The engine will not start though. I am getting some smoke now.

The engine starts with starter fluid and i can finally confirm that there is fuel at the injectors and it is flowing through back through the return line as well.

Again. Im trying to avoid buying a de-immo ecu and getting it running on the minimal wires needed. But i will if thats what it takes. Probably wont find a 80 pin ecu thats pre tuned though.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Just starting this thread here because im sure ill have many more issues along the way. But this is where im at.

Thanks.
 
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CasaEd

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If you have VAG-Com you can try to read the ecu to see if there are any fault codes. Normally with an immo enabled ECU the engine will fire, but shut down immediately. There is a fault code for engine start blocked by immobilzer so it will show up if thats the case. To turn off immo you have to unsolder the chip in the ecu and re-program it. If the ECU has sockets with re-writable chips you can immo off in the flash instead.
 

she_loves_the_D

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If you have VAG-Com you can try to read the ecu to see if there are any fault codes. Normally with an immo enabled ECU the engine will fire, but shut down immediately. There is a fault code for engine start blocked by immobilzer so it will show up if thats the case. To turn off immo you have to unsolder the chip in the ecu and re-program it. If the ECU has sockets with re-writable chips you can immo off in the flash instead.
I did not specify. All the components are matching from the same car. So the immo shouldn't be an issue. I guess i was saying if i go that route i will get rid of everything but the gas pedal and the few basic sensors needed to run. But then i have to put it in a pre 97 diesel.
 

jimbote

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I did not specify. All the components are matching from the same car. So the immo shouldn't be an issue. I guess i was saying if i go that route i will get rid of everything but the gas pedal and the few basic sensors needed to run. But then i have to put it in a pre 97 diesel.
There is no immobilizer in your 99 80 pin ecu. Do you have a bentley manual? If not, might want to pick up a copy and study the diagrams. It's very helpful, if not essential, to understand the ecm circuits, especially since your contemplating a swap.
 

she_loves_the_D

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There is no immobilizer in your 99 80 pin ecu. Do you have a bentley manual? If not, might want to pick up a copy and study the diagrams. It's very helpful, if not essential, to understand the ecm circuits, especially since your contemplating a swap.
No immobilizer? I did not know that. Thats pretty useful info lol.
I was thinking if maybe i somehow got a mismatched cluster or something but i think that would rule that out.

I have looked at the bentley and haynes but they dont have the schematic for this particular setup. They have the 121 pin

I think my next step is to test if the glow plugs are getting power and trace back the power from the starter relay 185.
I found one diagram that says the glowplug relay is the 4th one on the smaller panel but i dont even have wires going to that spot. Its empty on mine.

This is all i have for a diagram so far. the numbers seem to match the colors on mine.
Maybe i can find a matching legend lol.

 

CasaEd

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Thats not 100% correct. 80 pin ECU iginition switch pin number is 47, 121 pin ECU ignition switch pin 37. 80 Pin ECU pins 1 & 27 earth, 121 pin ECU pins 4 & 5 earth, 80 pin ECU pins 2 & 28 Engine control relay, 121 pin ECU pins 1 & 2. 80 Pin ECU pin 33 is the Earth wire for the E.C control relay, on the 121 pin ECU it's pin 18.
The ecm power up essentials are identical between the 80 and 121 pin.
 

jimbote

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Thats not 100% correct. 80 pin ECU iginition switch pin number is 47, 121 pin ECU ignition switch pin 37. 80 Pin ECU pins 1 & 27 earth, 121 pin ECU pins 4 & 5 earth, 80 pin ECU pins 2 & 28 Engine control relay, 121 pin ECU pins 1 & 2. 80 Pin ECU pin 33 is the Earth wire for the E.C control relay, on the 121 pin ECU it's pin 18.
Thats not 100% correct. 80 pin ECU iginition switch pin number is 47, 121 pin ECU ignition switch pin 37. 80 Pin ECU pins 1 & 27 earth, 121 pin ECU pins 4 & 5 earth, 80 pin ECU pins 2 & 28 Engine control relay, 121 pin ECU pins 1 & 2. 80 Pin ECU pin 33 is the Earth wire for the E.C control relay, on the 121 pin ECU it's pin 18.
Right, specific pins are not the same but needs needs key on start ("wake up"), power and ground.
 

CasaEd

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The wires required to start and run the ecu on 80 pin ecu's don't differ so much, Audi, VW & SEAT ( Never had a Skoda one to try) 80 pin ecu's will interchange, the wire colour's are can be different, but the engine should still start. Relay 109 powers the ECU but there should also be another relay(could be 53, would have to check) which powers the yellow/black wires which go to various other components, Inj pump N75 etc.

Ok on checking the diagram posted up the engine control relay also powers fuses F8 & F3 which powers the pump, maf N75 etc. So no seperate relay.
This diagram is for a SEAT Ibiza AGR 90 hp engine (WG)
 
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she_loves_the_D

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The wires required to start and run the ecu on 80 pin ecu's don't differ so much, Audi, VW & SEAT ( Never had a Skoda one to try) 80 pin ecu's will interchange, the wire colour's are can be different, but the engine should still start. Relay 109 powers the ECU but there should also be another relay(could be 53, would have to check) which powers the yellow/black wires which go to various other components, Inj pump N75 etc.

Ok on checking the diagram posted up the engine control relay also powers fuses F8 & F3 which powers the pump, maf N75 etc. So no seperate relay.
This diagram is for a SEAT Ibiza AGR 90 hp engine (WG)
Yah mine is 80 pin, electronic throttle, vnt. I read that the vnt and wastegate have the same vacuum anyways. Must have a been a transitionary setup.
I found a 80pin to 121pin conversion that someone made that i super easy to read. Maybe i can convert it to the correct colors with your diagram.
Id link it but i saved it as a pdf about a month ago and now the site is down. Must not have reclaimed it.
it was tdr.lv

Relay 185 doesn't have anything to do with the ecm getting power or why your engine isn't starting. Relay 109 is what powers up the ecm and engine related solenoids.
Relay 185 is the starter relay on mine. just trying to figure out if the reason it doesnt have power is the same reason my glow plugs dont have power. trying to find what plugs into that flat 2 prong female plug. My first thought was clutch. that way you could only start it while it depressed. But it does not match. maybe if i trace to clutch switch.

So you think the engine is not running because the ecm is not getting power? The dash and everything lights up and a bunch of relays click when i turn the key. The glowplug light flashes. Not sure if thats because they dont have power or because the abs is unplugged or something. I know they used it as a warning for a few things.
But i tested the glowplugs. put a tester up in there and turned the key to on where the plugs usually warm up. Didnt get any signal. Maybe that was wrong.
109 is the only 3 wire relay so im assuming its the e.c. as is it in the diagram. its in slot 12 on the relay panel.
---------------------------
Let me ask this just so i can get a clear answer. So many various answers on all the forums over the years.

What are the minimum required plugs needed to run?

I have plugged in now
n75 to turbo
other n75 looking valve to valve goes to the egr.
the vacuum valve that goes to the egr.
vacuum to egr and turbo from said valves.
maf
map
injector pump
knock sensor
reverse switch? right at the linkage
glowplugs
the 3 coolant glow plugs
the coolant temp sensor
and the pcm valve? right after the intake.
Also ecu cluster ignition and pedals. i taped down the brake and clutch switches.

I plugged these all in just because they were obvious.

Forgive me if i sound novice. Ive been working on cars forever, but this is my first time trying to start a non-carbureted engine on the floor. And i havent owned an alh in 8 years or so. Even when i did i never had to work on it beyond maintenance.
Figured this will help the next random sucker that gets an 80 pin alh lol.
Did a thermostat on my ea288 and it took longer than the timing belt lol (water to air charge cooler in the way.
 

she_loves_the_D

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No knock sensor on these. Do you mean the injector 3 needle lift sensor or crank sensor? Are you able to communicate with the ecm?
hmm. im refering to the plug right next to the injection pump plug. there are 2 of them. 1 goes to #3 which i have plugged in. and the other goes to a sensor on the front of the engine. Thats the one i thought was a knock sensor. Didnt even notice it at first.
 

she_loves_the_D

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so if i match this with the other 80 pin diagram i have that wasnt fully the same colors as mine.
however all the colors on this diagram seem to be matching the colors on the conversion chart i had. So it was unimportant wires that were different the whole time. I just didnt want to jump in and fry the ecu.

on the above diagram, glowplugs are R5 (pretty obvious) which uses relay K22 (figure out the number tomorrow) to pull through the 50 amp fuse straight from the battery and makes its way to the GPs. So the fuse that sits on the battery im assuming.
According to this chart it has 4 connectors. And what im guessing is the ground side comes through the brake pedal switch (s13) through fuse 43.

9 brake pedal pin 3 (s13) Ground?
20 brake pedal b131
46 clutch pedal

So if the brake pedal isnt plugged in the glowplug relay will not have a ground?

Its starting to make sense. I just cant mess with it until tomorrow. Excited though.
 

jimbote

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Brake pedal switch has nothing to do with glow plug grounding. Only relay 109 is truly critical in starting out of car, as you are doing. Glow plugs are nice but it'll start without em'. Is your ignition switch hooked up or are you just jumping wires? I'll ask again: are you able to communicate with the ecm via scan tool or vcds?
 

she_loves_the_D

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Brake pedal switch has nothing to do with glow plug grounding. Only relay 109 is truly critical in starting out of car, as you are doing. Glow plugs are nice but it'll start without em'. Is your ignition switch hooked up or are you just jumping wires? I'll ask again: are you able to communicate with the ecm via scan tool or vcds?
Im pretty sure a vw tech took my vcds cable from my backseat when i had my car in for warranty.
I do have a regular scanner though.

Your right. That wire between the 2 has a junction i didnt see right above that k22 (glow plug) relay.
Its blue. it gets power from relay 109 which is k46 on this diagram.

I traced 42 which should go to the glow plug relay and it goes into relay 180. on this diagram it is 4 pins but the relay i have (180) is 7.
a vlt/wht wire from pin 42, a ground ,a fat solid red wire from the battery, the blue wire from 109, 1 small wire i havent traced and 2 fat red/white wires that look like they go to the fans or the fan control module. havent fully traced them yet.
The v/w wire (47) does get power when i turn the key on. and its the only wire that stays on for about 2 seconds after i turn the key back to off.
This relay does not appear to be working so i will be replacing it. It turns on more than just the glowplug. I checked continuity from the glow plug to each terminal on the 180 plug and did not get anything.

The glowplugs are actually on the small plug side of the ecu. I havent started peeling that side but nothing goes from relay 180 to the glow plugs. as a matter of fact there does not appear to be any relay between the glow plugs and the ecm. But that just doesnt seem right so i may be wrong.
 

jimbote

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Im pretty sure a vw tech took my vcds cable from my backseat when i had my car in for warranty.
I do have a regular scanner though.

Your right. That wire between the 2 has a junction i didnt see right above that k22 (glow plug) relay.
Its blue. it gets power from relay 109 which is k46 on this diagram.

I traced 42 which should go to the glow plug relay and it goes into relay 180. on this diagram it is 4 pins but the relay i have (180) is 7.
a vlt/wht wire from pin 42, a ground ,a fat solid red wire from the battery, the blue wire from 109, 1 small wire i havent traced and 2 fat red/white wires that look like they go to the fans or the fan control module. havent fully traced them yet.
The v/w wire (47) does get power when i turn the key on. and its the only wire that stays on for about 2 seconds after i turn the key back to off.
This relay does not appear to be working so i will be replacing it. It turns on more than just the glowplug. I checked continuity from the glow plug to each terminal on the 180 plug and did not get anything.

The glowplugs are actually on the small plug side of the ecu. I havent started peeling that side but nothing goes from relay 180 to the glow plugs. as a matter of fact there does not appear to be any relay between the glow plugs and the ecm. But that just doesnt seem right so i may be wrong.
Relay 180 gets it's power from the battery fuse box and sends it to the glow plugs as per ecm commands.
 

she_loves_the_D

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Relay 180 gets it's power from the battery fuse box and sends it to the glow plugs as per ecm commands.
Started that mf
Ran like ish but it ran. Battery immediately died because i dont have an alternator yet. was waiting to see if it would run first.

Confirmed the 180 relay goes to the glowplugs. there is a fat 2 pin plug in between that goes from one harness to the other. it goes from the 2 red and white wires on the 180 to a plug then to the glowplugs.

In the process i found another plug and a match for it. Same thing from one harness to the other. Im thinking that was the culprit.
Jumped the glowplugs for 8 seconds then jumped the starter (still not sure why that relay is not powered).

Cranked it for a few then it started putting and after another 30 seconds or so (week battery from testing) it fired up. Ran pretty bad and smoked me out but the accelerator worked, and it seemed like it idled ok. Wouldnt even crank when i tried to restart it.

Thanks for the help im sure im not done. Need an alternator and a downpipe with the o2 and i might have everything to not throw a code.
 
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she_loves_the_D

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Ok next issue. rough idle rough accel just rough overall. Way too much smoke. When i hit the throttle it kind of puts up the rpms but its very rough. nothing smooth at all. almost sounds like its misfiring.
Is there anything i could have unplugged that would cause this?

Not sure what this could be or where to start with this one. In my head it was just going to run smooth. I can only mess with it so much as it smokes out all my neighbors lol.
I was thinking of while it idles to spray (from far away) some starter fluid in the intake? If it smooths out then i would associate it with fuel delivery.
I seemed to be pretty smooth when i tried to start it off starter fluid only.
I never ended up pulling apart the injection pump so hopefully the fuel timing is correct.
I did not do a compression test nor do i have the tools. Would be good to rule out the simple stuff first.
Might try cracking each injector 1 at a time to see if it changes the idle. But the smoke is pretty agressive. Would have to be quick about it.
 

03Golfer

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Do you have an OBD II port wired in? In my experience if you've plugged something in wrong the ecu is usually pretty quick to set a circuit fault.
 

she_loves_the_D

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Starting fluid is not going to anything to improve the situation. Didn't you say that it ran fine before pulling the engine?
I was thinking of doing that just to rule out bent valves or rods.
The seller told me he bought the car to swap the engine into his other car but never ended up doing it (probably because its an 80 pin ecu). He had a shell of a golf and the engine, and everything already removed.

He told me that that he got a good deal on it because the prev owner thought the turbo was blown. He drove it home like that and upon inspection he realized it was a pinched vacuum hose between the n75 and turbo. He replaced the hose and said it ran good after.
It came with a new turbo rebuild kit so it seemed to check out.

Do you have an OBD II port wired in? In my experience if you've plugged something in wrong the ecu is usually pretty quick to set a circuit fault.
I do. Finally got it smoothed out. ill post the codes im throwing.

First off i had the n75 and n18 valves backward. Even though that didnt seem to change anything once i fixed it.
i cleared out all the fuel in the injection pump and sucked diesel kleen into it then ranit on straight cleaner. Ran rough for about 10 seconds then smoothed out.
Still a little rough but way smoother. I mixed the fuel about half diesel half diesel kleen and its got even smoother. I cant run it for long as there is no coolant but very promising.

It was throwing 5 codes before but i cleared them and now am left with 2 codes. after about 60 seconds of idle with a couple blips of the throttle.

p1247
p1562

Quick research would suggest maybe the needle lift sensor is not getting power or is unplugged somewhere upstream.
And maybe the quant adj is gunked up. the outlet for the banjo on the return line was clogged and i ended up getting a new one. I would assume there is some gunk in there.
Maybe quant adj is also not grounded somewhere or something. Might try that before removing the lid.

(ross tech wiki)
p1247 :
17655/P1247/004679 - Needle Lift Sensor (G80): Open or Short to Plus
Possible Symptoms
Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
Pre-Glow Light ON
Rough Engine Performance
Excessive Emissions

Possible Causes
Fuse(s) faulty
Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Needle Lift Sensor (G80) faulty
Needle Lift Sensor (G80) faulty

Possible Solutions
Check Fuse(s)
Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Needle Lift Sensor (G80)
Check/Replace Needle Lift Sensor (G80)

p1562 : quantity adjuster upper limit attained.
17970/P1562/005474 - Quantity Adjuster (N146): Upper Limit Reached
Possible Symptoms
Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
Reduced Power
Engine jerking

Possible Causes
Fuse(s) faulty
Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Quantity Adjuster (N146) faulty
Quantity Adjuster (N146) not adjusted
Quantity Adjuster (N146) blocked/faulty

Possible Solutions
Check Fuse(s)
Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Quantity Adjuster (N146)
Check/Adjust Quantity Adjuster (N146)
Check/Replace Injection Pump

Notes
On the 1.9L ALH TDI engine:
The Quantity Adjuster (N146) should ohm test between 0.5 and 2.5 Ω.
With the coolant above 85° C, MVB 001, Field 3 should read between 1.45 to 2.0 Volts.
 

she_loves_the_D

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AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Decided to check the quantity adjuster to see if it swings all the way open then close which it does. Closed it back up.
Started it without reconnecting the fuel line (head against brick wall emoji).
So im like whatever. I pull some vacuum through then crack inj #3.
wont start. Noticed i cycled some air through because it was shaking the makeshift fuel bottle when cranking.

Pulled more fuel through then just started building vacuum.
Nothing flowing though.

THE FU**ING banjo bolt union clogged again. I actually think i pulled to much vacuum. Ive been circulating this fuel. Just had the top off and it was very clean inside.
I think im pulling too much vacuum. I used the pump again because my mighty vac stopped working well.

Seems like the exact same thing as my other one. It does not clear out. I soaked it. Tried to blow air through stuck a needle in there. deosnt seem to be dirty. I can see the valve in there. I think it might have bent or something.

Maybe if i leave vacuum on it backward overnight. idk

chances of finding another one at a junkyard will be pretty slim.
 
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