Trusted Guru" oil overfill

[tdiatlast]

"Trusted Guru" oil overfill

Harrumph...my very first experience with a "guru", vs. a dealership.

1) After fully discussing the issues of oil overfill, and the importance of siphoning out the oil filter canister, when I got home I managed to extract almost a full liter of oil, and am still not below the uppermost ball on the dipstick. During the discussion of "overfill issues", was told "It's really not as big a risk as the TDIClub forum makes it!" (FYI, I gave them 5 liters of Mobil ESP, they gave me 1/2 liter back...where DID all the oil in the crankcase come from???)

2) The white mesh sock over the pipe next to the oil filter was completely soaked with oil.

3) No indication that the oil filler cap was wiped clean before adding the oil. We all know that placement of the filler cap causes it to fill with dirt/sand/grit, just waiting to fall into the crankcase.

4) Charged me $410 for the DSG service, w/o a recalibration. I agreed to the fee, thinking I was doing the right thing to support the independent "guru". Now, I'm regretting it, and questioning the service itself.

5) Tech leaned on me, HARD, to change my OCI to 5k miles, to avoid premature camwear. I pointed out that UOAs have shown ZERO issues with CR TDIs, but he was unconvinced, and told me I would regret it if I didn't go to 5k OCI.

So, folks, caveat emptor. Even "trusted gurus" can be troublesome. I will visit them again tomorrow, to express my displeasure. Since this seems to be a strong difference of opinion re: good service, my words will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but I will address them, face to face. Once I've spoken to them, I'll report the name of the "guru" to the moderator for appropriate action.

 

[waltzconmigo]

hope this is not the guy I told you to ask about a tint recommendation. sorry to hear about this.

 

[40X40]

There are TDI Gurus and a trusted mechanic list. I don't know if there are more than a dozen TDIGurus extant. Given that, even a TDIGuru is not immune to mistakes. I have no experience with ANY Guru recommending a 5 k oil change... very strange.

I always raise my hood and check the oil level and scan the engine bay after service but before leaving the lot. It cuts done on the number of 'found tools' too. This has never caused a problem with a service provider...

Bill

 

[Tuco]

Sorry to hear this. I would expect this kind of shoddy work from the clowns at the dealerships, but not from an indie VW shop. Personally, I would have no problem disclosing the name of the shop, at least for the benefit of folks in my general area.

Also, I don't recall hearing of any cam wear issues with CR TDIs.

 

[Tuco]

By the way, I think the 2009 (CBEA engine) oil capacity is 4.0 liters.

I'm guessing they drained the oil and reinstalled the drain plug prior to removing the oil filter, and then added 4.5 liters of oil.

Good reason to DIY from now on. You can't trust anyone.

 

[meerschm]

That whole story is troubling.



I would not only post here, but put a Yelp review.


When I put a little too much oil in my '09, I ended up with an oil leak.

Welcome to Texas.

 

[tdiatlast]

There are TDI Gurus and a trusted mechanic list. I don't know if there are more than a dozen TDIGurus extant. Given that, even a TDIGuru is not immune to mistakes. I have no experience with ANY Guru recommending a 5 k oil change... very strange.

I always raise my hood and check the oil level and scan the engine bay after service but before leaving the lot. It cuts done on the number of 'found tools' too. This has never caused a problem with a service provider...

Bill

I guess I'm guilty of thinking that anyone on the trusted mechanic list was a "guru". My mistake.

As for "even a TDIGuru is not immune to mistakes". I totally concur, although the pre-service discussion when the guy behind the counter challenged the "overfill" concern, plus the tech himself leaning on me to change my OCI to 5k, tells me that they have a philosophy that I (and I guess many here!) completely disagree with.

Because we had previously discussed the overfill question, I specifically chose not to challenge them by lifting the hood on their property. Now that I see I drove 25-30 miles overfilled by almost a liter, I regret that decision. I'm now questioning the integrity of the DSG fluid change (which was done in barely an hour's time, using the VWoA procedure...is that possible?)

I'm going to talk to the counter guy face-to-face this morning. I strongly believe in direct contact (when time permits) to resolve differences. I can't imagine I'll change their system, other than to caution them that their philosophy re: CR TDIs is questionable.

I won't disclose the name of the shop until I talk to them.

 

[BT3076]

you often hear about these "mistakes" or what I call incompleteness. Its not a fact im judging as there are mistakes to be made and things happen, but with saying that, I do not understand how an overfill could possible happen. You drain the oil, change the filter and add oil then CHECK the dipstick. Its pretty clear to me he just added the amount of oil that is required and failed to verify it on the dipstick. These things can be over looked on ones personal vehicle but this shouldn't be done on a customers car that is paying for a service, GURU or not. This is why I do all of my own work, as someone previously said, you cant trust anyone.


Chad

 

[ymz]

as someone previously said, you cant trust anyone.

Wrong!! There are quite a few mechanics out there I would trust implicitly and completely!!! You just have to find out who they are...

Yuri

 

[tdiatlast]

Just had a LONG, very pleasant conversation with the counter guy. To clarify, ALL the guys in the shop have 20+ years working on VWs.

Overfill: Counter guy was annoyed/concerned, because the owner of the shop did the oil change. Owner wasn't there this morning, but will be told about the issue as soon as he arrives. Hopefully, this was just an oversight/distraction thing.

Recommended 5k OCI: The entire shop are "old-school", and rely on their experiences to determine OCI intervals. They feel the jury is still out on the CR engines, re: cam wear, as they've been burned too many times with previous generation VWs. I told them of UOAs that show no issues, many CRs well over 100k miles, and he wouldn't budge, as they saw failures in cars with previous clean UOAs. So, they will continue to RECOMMEND 5k OCI, but will do whatever the owner requests.

$410 DSG service: Again, he defended his own internal numbers, stating that they just have to charge this amount to stay in business. I pointed out that I wasn't pleased paying $250 for labor, when it took the guy less than 1 1/2 hours. (I understand a good tech coming in under a "book" rate, but this seems excessive to me). Again, he wouldn't budge.

Very pleasant guys to deal with, and except for the overfill, they seem to have reason on their side. I made it very clear to them, however, that I will have MY reasoning on my side when I go elsewhere in the future for my service. Too bad, because they're all very nice guys to talk to.

 

[Abacus]

There are quite a few mechanics out there I would trust implicitly and completely!!! You just have to find out who they are...

Same here, but they are few and far between.

The number of 'guru' faux-pas stories I have heard is astounding, but it's taboo to discuss them on this board. They are the guru after all, not you.

I choose to do my own work because I am a cheap bastid, but that doesn't mean I am shoddy about any work I do, there is a BIG difference.

To clarify, ALL the guys in the shop have 20+ years working on VWs.

So? That means nothing to me since I have seen more people with XX years of experience screw up more than the people with almost no experience. I personally know mechanics that I won't take my car to despite them being experts with XX years experience solely because I know what they do and how they do it. I once took my car to a VW only shop who's owner/mechanic had 30 years of VW only experience but didn't even own a Vag-Com and still timed all diesels by ear.

 

[South Coast Guy]

Just had a LONG, very pleasant conversation with the counter guy. To clarify, ALL the guys in the shop have 20+ years working on VWs.

Overfill: Counter guy was annoyed/concerned, because the owner of the shop did the oil change. Owner wasn't there this morning, but will be told about the issue as soon as he arrives. Hopefully, this was just an oversight/distraction thing.

Recommended 5k OCI: The entire shop are "old-school", and rely on their experiences to determine OCI intervals. They feel the jury is still out on the CR engines, re: cam wear, as they've been burned too many times with previous generation VWs. I told them of UOAs that show no issues, many CRs well over 100k miles, and he wouldn't budge, as they saw failures in cars with previous clean UOAs. So, they will continue to RECOMMEND 5k OCI, but will do whatever the owner requests.

$410 DSG service: Again, he defended his own internal numbers, stating that they just have to charge this amount to stay in business. I pointed out that I wasn't pleased paying $250 for labor, when it took the guy less than 1 1/2 hours. (I understand a good tech coming in under a "book" rate, but this seems excessive to me). Again, he wouldn't budge.

Very pleasant guys to deal with, and except for the overfill, they seem to have reason on their side. I made it very clear to them, however, that I will have MY reasoning on my side when I go elsewhere in the future for my service. Too bad, because they're all very nice guys to talk to.

Why were you surprised at the charge for the DSG service? All you had to do was ask for a quote.

 

[tdiatlast]

I hear you Abacus. I only wanted to note that these are experienced VW guys, who work on VWs exclusively. They're not an upscale Jiffy Lube!

 

[tditom]

Just had a LONG, very pleasant conversation with the counter guy. To clarify, ALL the guys in the shop have 20+ years working on VWs.

Overfill: Counter guy was annoyed/concerned, because the owner of the shop did the oil change. Owner wasn't there this morning, but will be told about the issue as soon as he arrives. Hopefully, this was just an oversight/distraction thing.

Recommended 5k OCI: The entire shop are "old-school", and rely on their experiences to determine OCI intervals. They feel the jury is still out on the CR engines, re: cam wear, as they've been burned too many times with previous generation VWs. I told them of UOAs that show no issues, many CRs well over 100k miles, and he wouldn't budge, as they saw failures in cars with previous clean UOAs. So, they will continue to RECOMMEND 5k OCI, but will do whatever the owner requests.

$410 DSG service: Again, he defended his own internal numbers, stating that they just have to charge this amount to stay in business. I pointed out that I wasn't pleased paying $250 for labor, when it took the guy less than 1 1/2 hours. (I understand a good tech coming in under a "book" rate, but this seems excessive to me). Again, he wouldn't budge.

Very pleasant guys to deal with, and except for the overfill, they seem to have reason on their side. I made it very clear to them, however, that I will have MY reasoning on my side when I go elsewhere in the future for my service. Too bad, because they're all very nice guys to talk to.

I think you should do the tdiclub community a favor and go to the the list and "de-recommend" these clowns.

 

[Abacus]

De-recommending someone should be the same procedure as recommending them for the list: not easy nor based on a few reports. This is peoples' lives and businesses we're discussing....but also cars that may not get fixed properly.

 

[tditom]

De-recommending someone should be the same procedure as recommending them for the list: not easy nor based on a few reports. This is peoples' lives and businesses we're discussing....but also cars that may not get fixed properly.

What does it take to get on the list? Those criteria are not at all clear. Where are the recommendations or negative comments kept while the shop's status is being decided? Edit: I found the procedure here:

There are many that ask how does one get on this list.
I will do my best here to help you understand what it takes.
After reading this, if you have any further questions, feel free to PM me.

First and foremost this is not a list for any and all mechanics.

If you are a TDIClub Vendor, this does not mean you bypass the rules below.

It's for Member Recommended Mechanics, specifically TDI Specialty mechanics.

The formula to qualify for this list is quite simple.
You must prove competent in repair & maintenance of our baby's that we paid a lot of hard earned money for.
You must use the right tools.
You must do things BY THE BOOK as VW intended.
This means using the right tools.

Secondly, you must not go replacing a turbo thinking its going to fix the car. You need to KNOW it's going to fix it. This is our hard earned money, remember? If the turbo is truely the problem, does the whole thing need replaced? This is an assembly. This means lots of parts on there that could be replaced rather than the whole assembly.

We look for member vouches on a mechanic to get on this list. How many we need may vary. If we have a high level technician on the forum here that refers a mechanic, chances are its going straight on the list. Otherwise we need more than one person to give a good word.

If you are referring, please be sure to have the confidence in whether this mechanic is doing things by the book and using the right tools. This means you gotta have knowledge of the manufacture's procedures yourself.

Also, be descriptive on why you are referring. Be sure to cite facts on proving to us this person should be on the list. Let us know what the symptoms were, what work was done, what tools were used, how much was charged. Does this shop specialize in only TDI’s, all European, any car on the road type shop.

By any definition, tdiatlast sounds like he would NOT recommend this shop. At a minimum his dissatisfaction should be captured on that list so others can see the feedback.

 

[Abacus]

I have recommended shops to be on the list and was happy when they made it. I agree that tdiatlast would probably not recommend the shop, and based on what he wrote, neither would I. However, that is only one side of the story, we have not heard from (or about) the shop in question and one negative review should not be the sole criteria to remove anyone from the list. I'm just saying it needs to be a fair process, but there should definitely be a process. I agree that dissatisfaction should be recorded.

We have all heard the 'we're only human' stories from mechanics (and guru's on here) and car owners, and it is true that any part can fail no matter how new and anyone can mess up no matter how good they are. If every mechanic were to live or die solely based on one incident, there would be no mechanics left to work on cars.

 

[tdiatlast]

^^^This is exactly why I'm hesitant to name the "trusted mechanic", until I get a bigger picture. (Of course, unless I disclose the name, no one will be able to post in defense of the shop)
I may not agree with a tech's philosophy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's incompetent. Old-fashioned, maybe.
I hope this thread doesn't get into a heated discussion. We owe it to each other to remain civil. Yes, livelihoods are at stake here.

(I'm currently dismissing the overfill as an anomaly)

 

[BT3076]

Wrong!! There are quite a few mechanics out there I would trust implicitly and completely!!! You just have to find out who they are...

Yuri

I can see your point, I'm just not willing to go through the "growing pains" as the OP did. I guess that is a better way to put it. If you have issues with your mechanic or GURU on something as simple as topping fluids off, you're a better man than me to trust someone to dive in on a timing belt replacement or a BRM cam replacement.

 

[mrrhtuner]

That's the problem with some of these 'tdi gurus'.

The one locally to me has been shady since I've meet him, half-assing work on my cars. It's strange because so many people have had good results from him. I just think some people think that just because a person is considered a 'guru' that they do everything properly.

I would drive 1-2 hours to get a good mechanic then deal with some of the half-assed 'mechanics' that we have locally.

 

[Tuco]

One other thing to consider is even "guru" shops have turnover. People get old and retire, some pick up and move to a different city, whatever. New guys get hired who may not have the same competence level as the guy they replaced. It happens.

I had my last oil change at the local guru shop when they also bled the brake fluid. The shop has a great reputation locally. I've been there several times, and have always pleased with their work. However, this time I changed the oil myself, and found the oil filter canister was so grossly overtightened I thought I would have to break it to get it to move, which luckily was not the case. The kid that did the work last time was new to the shop.

I guess the bottom line is occasionally you can get bad service even from a trusted shop that has always served you well in the past. Reputations are perishable, what have you done for me lately, etc.

 

[Matt927]

Such a shame to hear this. Constant Vigilance when anyone touches your car is needed.

 

[Claudio]

i think the problem is that most of the gurus in the list are for 2006 model, i called several of them in my area and altought they offered to do oil changes, timing belt etc on my 09, they had never worked on one of them.
i asked about the oil and they did not know that mine needed the 507 spec.

so i took it to the dealer

 

[ymz]

i think the problem is that most of the gurus in the list are for 2006 model, i called several of them in my area

I doubt that there are "several" TDI gurus in your area... recommended mechanics, quite likely, but bona-fide TDI gurus...

Yuri

 

[tdiatlast]

Could someone please enlighten me, and us, by disclosing where this "TDI guru" list is? Does it exist?
I guess I was under the misconception that the "recommended mechanics" were all gurus. I realize now that I was woefully naïve.

 

[40X40]

There is no list.

Bill

 

[Marc_TDI]

There are Trusted Mechanics on the 'List' and some are TDI Guru's...
there is no 'TDI Guru List'.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

As Bill said, there is no official list of gurus. Gurus are known only through word of mouth on the forums, whereas we maintain a list (as best we can) of trusted mechanics.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'm still puzzled about the 5K OCI. I can perhaps understand why they might recommend it for gasoline-powered VWs after the sludging issues in 1.8Ts. But I'm not aware of any problems with any generation VW TDIs that are tied to the OCI. Perhaps this is a gasoline shop that's out of its element with diesels.

The term "guru" is a loose one. Someone I may consider a guru you may not based on having a different experience with that individual/shop than I. Given we don't have clear criteria for gurus, I don't think a reliable list could exist.

I've tolerated behavior from gurus that others won't. I've made judgements about how the guru has treated my car and work with whatever other factors make that individual easy or hard to work with. But what I will tolerate may be unacceptable to others. Just like any service person, I'd imagine.