Troubles with VW's claims contractor

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This is a repost to something I added to the FTC blog, yesterday. I appreciate the opportunity to share and get more information here, and am posting for the first time having followed since I bought my TDI in 2014. I was stoked then, getting ready for my new baby and a clean drive cross-country! Sigh:

I am a "VW clean diesel" owner. I have submitted all my information and documents as required by this class action settlement.

Last Wednesday, VW emailed me that my docs were incomplete. They provided concise and thorough instructions how to correct the situation, advising me to call the claim number to ask a rep to reset my claims portal. The issue would be resolved in two business days, the email said. I followed their instructions the next morning and called, right away noticing it was a completely different experience than when I last spoke with VW about a month ago. The rep this time was very sloppy, launched right into the standard guidelines we have already received and didn't listen to my request at all to reset the claims portal. I had to interrupt her to ask my question again and she just continued to ignore. It was very weird so I thanked her and hung up to call back and try to get somewhere with another rep.

The second person did try to be helpful. She said she submitted the request to reset and confirmed what my email said, that this would be resolved in two business days, suggesting I call back this week if nothing had changed.

I checked yesterday morning, which was the following Tuesday, and nothing had changed so I called the claim number. This time, I got someone who told me she is authorized only to provide general information and can't access my claim. I had dialed through the system to get to my specifc issue and so was surprised to get to someone who said she couldn't access my claim. Previously on the phone with VW, they have immediately accessed my info. I asked her how I could check on my portal reset status, and she really evaded my question. Eventually, she told me she is a "third party contractor" hired by VW because VW can't manage the volume of calls, and she can't access any claim information...she finally offered to "put me through to the claims department." I had thought I was on the phone with the claims department. Sure enough, I got the more familiar hold music for VW (I've noticed it before because I think it sounds a little ominous) and when the next person answered, I asked if she was VW or the third party contractor. She confirmed she was VW and she actually reset my portal while we were on the phone. Awesome!!

This is where it got weird again, however. After she and I hung up, I went back through my steps and reached the point where the portal asked me to upload my documents- this would be for the second time, as these are all documents VW already has (and even which the second rep from last week had verified). So, I called the claim number again and got the woman from the morning! I told her that VW had reset my portal and I had a question about the docs, preferring not to upload them again as it takes bandwidth of which I have precious little. She again evaded my question and so I asked her to put me through to VW directly again. She tells me that "the manager" will get back to me in three business days. I told her I didn't need the third party contractor manager to get back to me, I just need to speak with VW directly. The manager Steven then came on the line, tells me he is VW and, grudgingly, yes a third party contractor and then advises me that they cannot provide access to VW, says "good day" and hangs up on me.

This was unprofessional to say the least and, frankly, unnerving. I am afraid that this intermediary service will never put me through to VW directly again, and that I will not be able to address challenges with the online claims portal without VW's authoritative support. It had been relatively quick and easy when VW was answering their own phones.
 
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chadbag

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I suggest you contact the PSC lawyers. Those are the plaintiff lead lawyers in the settlement. They are monitoring how it goes.
 

tkdcmpedude

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I am sorry to hear about your experience. I have experienced the same thing a number of times when calling the Claims Hotline. Yesterday alone I was hung up on twice with no explanation. I am not sure how to feel other than provide feedback stating that they have been very rude. Hope our voice is heard because this has been very unorthodox.
-tkd
 

Mr. Furious

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Volkswagen either doesn't care about getting this done according to the timelines they agreed to (best case scenario), or they're deliberately dragging their feet, either out of spite or to buy time to file bankruptcy (worst case scenario).

Similarly, Ankura is either doing the absolute best they can but Volkswagen's lack of information is preventing that, or they also don't care, or they're in cahoots with Volkswagen to delay things as much as possible. Keep in mind that one of the services Ankura offers in their class action package is bankruptcy planning.

So, basically, buckle up, you're in for a bumpy ride.
 

IXLR8

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I have been round and round with the same issues you did. The last person I talked with at VW Claims, indicated calls were not being routed correctly when you called the Claims number. Sometimes you ended up with a "general" info person, sometimes you ended up at the Claims dept, sometimes you get a random dept. I have been there done that. A general info person is clueless when it comes to this issue and if you find you have been connected to a general info person, stop and ask to be transferred to the Claims dept. Otherwise you are just wasting your time as they have no ability to access your claim account or handle your claim in any way. The clue I found, if they don't ask for your claim number, or don't want the number if you offer it... you have a general info person and you need to be transferred to the Claims dept. I have found the folks I dealt with at the Claims dept to be excellent, very courteous and helpful. The folks in the General info dept have been rude, not helpful at all and generally ignorant.
 
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DanB36

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Volkswagen either doesn't care about getting this done according to the timelines they agreed to (best case scenario)
No, I think the best case scenario is that they were genuinely surprised at how many people wanted to move ahead immediately with a claim (having expected that people would file claims over a longer period of time), and simply hadn't prepared for the volume they received. This scenario doesn't say much about their planning abilities, but it's still reasonably plausible.
 

Mr. Furious

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Isn't the settlement money in a trust? So it shouldn't matter if there was a bankruptcy.
Some of the money is in escrow. They funded $1.5B initially and are required to bring it back up to $1.5B when it reaches $1.25B. IIRC the program is supposed to cost something on the order of $15B.
 

Mr. Furious

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No, I think the best case scenario is that they were genuinely surprised at how many people wanted to move ahead immediately with a claim (having expected that people would file claims over a longer period of time), and simply hadn't prepared for the volume they received. This scenario doesn't say much about their planning abilities, but it's still reasonably plausible.
It's plausible, sure. I think it's more likely that the same people who thought they weren't going to be caught or called out for their emissions test defeat device thought they weren't going to be punished for not living up to the terms of the settlement to rectify it. And, if that's the case, they may be right this time.

I think that's the best case scenario in that I would trust them to at least be capable of fixing it in that case, whereas if it's just incompetence in their utter failure to anticipate demand I would be far less confident that they could (assuming they want to).

ETA: The other reason to drag it out is that the longer it goes, the more cars might die or get totaled before they can be bought back.
 

Airpizz6

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This whole mess is just good practice for those of you who have never had to deal with the VA, the Social Security office, Medicare, etc. Everything is wonderful until you have to call them, but when I do, I open the windows in my home office to lessen the chance of blowing the glass out as the pressure builds. Hoping against hope that I never have a reason to call the VW claims folks.
 

HBarlow

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Spending all the time and emotion that some of you are devoting to this will not get your car bought back or a check in your hand one day sooner. This is a monstrous bureaucratic mess just like dealing with any big government bureaucracy. It is going to move at the speed of an iceberg regardless of the number of phone calls you make, who you contact, or how angry you become. All you are accomplishing is making yourself angry and frustrated.

Send them your documents and leave it alone.
 

Mr. Furious

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Hoping against hope that I never have a reason to call the VW claims folks.
I've been fortunate in that I've never had to call them to resolve an issue. My documents are simple - one owner, with a lien from an institution that would be all too happy to provide the necessary information if they ever get around to requesting it.

And I know from government bureaucracy. My dad was a Postmaster for 25 years, and I'm a government contractor. The portion of this process that actually involved the government went very quickly by their standards. Volkswagen hasn't been a government agency for 70 years, yet they're operating with the alacrity of an RNS-510.
 
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fastpete

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What number do you call to get a person on the phone? I called the claims number from a email and just got kicked around in the phone system.
 

Floader

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Spending all the time and emotion that some of you are devoting to this will not get your car bought back or a check in your hand one day sooner. This is a monstrous bureaucratic mess just like dealing with any big government bureaucracy. It is going to move at the speed of an iceberg regardless of the number of phone calls you make, who you contact, or how angry you become. All you are accomplishing is making yourself angry and frustrated.

Send them your documents and leave it alone.
Quoted for truth.
Take a deep breath and relax people.
Go test drive a GTI, that made me happy :)
 

atomicfront

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This is pretty bad. The Original Poster had a legitimate problem and they have people who cannot help him answering the phones? I guess if people stop calling to complain about how they haven't gotten their offer yet things would go more smoothly.
 

atomicfront

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Volkswagen either doesn't care about getting this done according to the timelines they agreed to (best case scenario), or they're deliberately dragging their feet, either out of spite or to buy time to file bankruptcy (worst case scenario).
Similarly, Ankura is either doing the absolute best they can but Volkswagen's lack of information is preventing that, or they also don't care, or they're in cahoots with Volkswagen to delay things as much as possible. Keep in mind that one of the services Ankura offers in their class action package is bankruptcy planning.
So, basically, buckle up, you're in for a bumpy ride.
They have 40 billion in cash and have profit of 40 billion a year. I don't see how they could go bankrupt without a major global recession. You could try shorting your stock if you want but some billionaire went broke doing that. Seem like once they get this Diesel stuff behind them they will be in a good position going forward.
 

Mr. Furious

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They have 40 billion in cash and have profit of 40 billion a year. I don't see how they could go bankrupt without a major global recession.
Oh, I don't think this would actually cause them to go bankrupt. What I'm saying is that I could see VWGoA using bankruptcy as a way to reduce or eliminate their obligations under the settlement.

Even if it didn't prevent us from getting what we're owed, it would significantly delay it.

ETA: I should note that I don't think that's their endgame. My belief is that they're simply spending the bare minimum on the resources required to process buybacks knowing they'll run afoul of the agreement but hoping they can make enough excuses that they won't really be held to it. It is my further belief that they will only perform to the level they're forced to. Any cars that die or wreck will just be a bonus for them, as those numbers should be comparatively small.
 
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HBarlow

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I don't believe conspiracy theories.

VWAG is a car company headquartered in Germany. The company manufactures and distributes cars. The company has zero experience buying back cars.

It is not VWAG staff here in the US conducting this buy back operation. It's contract temporary labor Americans you are dealing with. The same people who normally provide poor service to callers in call centers. The same people who hand out wrong information, contradictory information, and hang up on you.

The people you reach when you call don't give a damn about your wants and needs. In fact, the longer this takes the longer they'll be receiving a pay check.

Quit tying up the system any further than it already is with adolescent demands to move to the head of the line.
 

Salsaman06

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.......It's contract temporary labor Americans you are dealing with. The same people who normally provide poor service to callers in call centers. ...
Seriously? Every bad experience I've had with call centers are the ones that have been off-shored. The exception has been this one.
 

Airpizz6

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I don't believe conspiracy theories.

VWAG is a car company headquartered in Germany. The company manufactures and distributes cars. The company has zero experience buying back cars..
That is oh so true and oh so very valid. One of the responsibilities of the federal government is to gather and print money and then to pour it into the economy. The federal government does that quite well. But should there ever be an overpayment such as on a travel voucher or a contractor deliverable, the collection process is onerous and complicated, almost like it's happening for the first time. My point: the federal government hasn't figured out how to get money back in over two centuries. Yet VW is expected to take on a major project totally new to them AND get it right out of the box.
 

Mr. Furious

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Yet VW is expected to take on a major project totally new to them AND get it right out of the box.
Having enough self-awareness to know that the proposed timelines were unrealistic would have worked just fine. The timelines weren't unilaterally imposed on them, they were the result of negotiations. But no, they agreed to them, and people were naive enough to take them at their word and operate under the idea that they'd be capable of following them.

Who proposed the timelines, by the way? That's not a rhetorical question, I actually don't know.
 

Airpizz6

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Who proposed the timelines, by the way? That's not a rhetorical question, I actually don't know.
Yes, this has been a classic mess, and may well become a mandatory study topic in business schools worldwide. But could VW have been better prepared going in? Don't know. Last time I was in Barnes and Noble I don't recall seeing a copy of 'Buying Back Cars - on a Grand Scale - for Dummies'. But there better be next time this happens.
 

Salsaman06

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They have 40 billion in cash and have profit of 40 billion a year. I don't see how they could go bankrupt without a major global recession. You could try shorting your stock if you want but some billionaire went broke doing that. Seem like once they get this Diesel stuff behind them they will be in a good position going forward.
I hope you're right about the cash but very few companies have that much cash on hand. In any event, I have to hope that the judge was level headed about this settlement and did not set in motion an inevitable bankruptcy. I would think he had access to the company financials and therefore had some strong evidence that the terms of the settlement could be absorbed without causing the company to falter. That would serve NO ONE and would hurt thousands of people worldwide (jobs) if it were to fail. And then the "dirty" cars would remain on the road.

I think we all lucked out on such favorable settlement terms because there weren't that many affected cars for such a large company. 450K is small in the greater scheme of things. Imagine an equally egregious recall/buyback for Toyota Camry's for all those years. In 2007, Camry sales in the U.S. was over 476K. A buyback as generous as this one would never happen.
 

aja8888

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According to the VW balance sheet 12.31.15, they had about $16 B in cash and near the same in short term investments. They probably have a line of credit that's pretty high also. Cash in these companies takes on many forms, however, VW looks like they can handle this error in judgement without much damage to their finances.
 

DanB36

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I have to hope that the judge was level headed about this settlement and did not set in motion an inevitable bankruptcy. I would think he had access to the company financials and therefore had some strong evidence that the terms of the settlement could be absorbed without causing the company to falter.
This was/is a negotiated settlement among the parties--the judge had between little and nothing to do with its terms. I'd think it a near-certainty that counsel on all sides had a fair amount of information about VW's financials.
 

BudMan5

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I just called and did get through to VW claims. I returned my signed/notarized documents on November 16 and asked "Courtney" what the status was. She said the time frame for scheduling the actual buyback after return of the signed formal settlement offer is now 20 business days or four weeks after VW receives the signed/notarized documents. When i expressed surprise she stated "VW was not expecting such an overwhelming response.

The PSC attorney has told me that all these issues have been brought to the Court's attention and will be addressed in the Nov 30 status hearing
 

Salsaman06

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This was/is a negotiated settlement among the parties--the judge had between little and nothing to do with its terms. I'd think it a near-certainty that counsel on all sides had a fair amount of information about VW's financials.
I didn't mean to imply he was doing the analysis. But he had to make the final decision. Certainly he had to have that data at hand to make an informed decision. If he made the final decision absent of that data, then I would characterize his decision as uninformed and reckless.
 
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