TROUBLE while on Road Trip w BORROWED 2000 Jetta 1.9 TDI - need info!

[RTIII]

So... Got back to the machine late in the day and had the guy who owns the house rev up the engine to 2k while I was holding a hand under the cold exhaust tips of the muffler, and I was rather surprised when it seemed to output LESS flow at 2k RPM than at idle?! STRANGE! Maybe I should have had him rev it to 3K? (I'm hesitant about that because unloaded RPM much above an idle is very harmful to internal combustion engines - the higher the RPM the worse it is.)

Given the apparent test results and the baby-rattle sounds I've heard at times, I'm thinking, yeah, maybe the cat's core really did die and clog things up, or perhaps the muffler (too?) and so, in talking with the owner, tomorrow I drive it to get the ODBII code(s) read and have a muffler shop do their thing on it. ... Owner suggested having them use a laser temperature probe (have one in my own workshop, they're nice!) on it to try and confirm things, so I'll talk to 'em about it.

As for the hoses:

3.5mm and 5mm

That agrees with the dealership.

The IDParts vacuum line kit says it comes with 3 and 5mm

The dealership agrees with the 5mm, and not the 3!

...I processed some photos and will load them in the AM over coffee.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

seemed to output LESS flow at 2k RPM than at idle?

Exhaust Gas Recirculation

 

[STDOUBT]

unloaded RPM much above an idle is very harmful to internal combustion engines

Say what?

 

[jmodge]

I take it you haven’t bothered to see if the turbo is actuating?

 

[RTIII]

I promised images over coffee, so, here goes!

vacuum_cluster_at_firewall_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

Uh... Probably should have noticed this before setting out across the country! Note the bad...

I can say it wasn't as bad as this when I left! Ouch, that looks like FAILED hoses to me!

And more of that:

bad_vacuum_connection_one_closeup_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

I WOULD have noticed this one before setting out as I did look the engine over first. So, in my...

Intercooler ducting looks fine...

Intercooler_ducting_lower_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

The intercooler's plumbing all looks "ordenung" (normal in German - possibly bad spelling!) to...

This shows how the exhaust system doesn't look bad at all.

upper_forward_exhaust_tubing_from_turbo_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

My target here was the exhaust tubing that attaches to the turbo. Note how relatively nice it...

And now just some shots from underneath / behind this 1.9L TDI - none of the more remote exhaust, though, but I CAN say the exhaust looks in great condition...

I'm not entirely sure what some of this even is...

part_above_intercooler_lower_ducting_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

I'm not sure what this is but it's just above the intercooler plumbing.

unsure_2.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

Here's another shot I took under there at nothing in particular.

vacuum_cluster_at_firewall_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

Uh... Probably should have noticed this before setting out across the country! Note the bad...

Unsure_1.jpg

• RTIII
• May 2, 2023

I don't know what all is seen here! I just took some shots to "look around" since I could put...

 

[RTIII]

I take it you haven’t bothered to see if the turbo is actuating?

I wouldn't use the word "bothered", jmodge, because I'm pushed by outside forces, including time, space (that is, availability to where the car is), important meetings already scheduled, etc.

However, there's also that I believe you said the vacuum system controls it and there are known issues with that, so I figured I'd fix those known issues first; is that a mistake?

Plus a workshop manual would help a lot!

 

[braddies]

First thought is that the vac lines look frayed on the outside but might be holding vacuum ok, a Mityvac would be used to test conclusively.
But that oil! All over the place, where is it coming from!

Could be co

 

[RTIII]

Say what?

STDOUBT, internal combustion engines have at least SOME clearance between parts that move and the parts that support them or they connect to, and also are designed to be operated above an idle with a load on them, usually called the thrust direction. In most all cases, an oil film is supposed to do the job of cushioning and lubricating said friction surfaces. However, above an idle with no load, and especially when cold and the clearances are therefore at their greatest (heat expansion hasn't yet kicked in), there's no thrust direction - no load! - and so parts, particularly pistons to cylinders, tend to "slap around" or "flail", and this is the highest wear condition the engine will ever see (sans some foreign object ingestion, or part failure). And therefore, the wise don't rev their engines much above an idle for long and never without a very specific purpose.

In the water-cooled world, this is perhaps less of a problem, but in the air-cooled world I inhabit, clearances are larger and the wear vastly greater, so perhaps I'm just more sensitive to it than most. But from an engineering point of view, there's no doubt that this analysis is correct, the only question being how significant it is on any given engine.

BTW, I figure you're a unix user! But I've never before contemplated redirecting standard doubt!

 

[braddies]

But what is that disconnected hose peeping from in-between the two shiny aluminum cable sleeves? Looks like a coolant hose..
Edit: looks like a coolant hose from the egr cooler with the clamp a few inches down, did you lose a bunch of coolant?

 

[RTIII]

First thought is that the vac lines look frayed on the outside but might be holding vacuum ok, a Mityvac would be used to test conclusively.
But that oil! All over the place, where is it coming from!

Could be co

WISH I had access to proper tools! However, in my other work, a Mityvac would have no real use and I'd just borrow one from a neighboring workshop.

For tools available, I have access to a fairly complete metric socket set but it's HALF INCH drive! Kinda big for these tight spaces. And, no swivels, etc, etc. And I have nearly no end wrenches {box or open, offset or anything else), just 17 / 19, and a 1/2" that doubles as a 13. I think there's another " based equivalent" in there, too, like 11mm, but I don't think I'll need an 11mm! Or maybe I will. ... Anyway, funds are also SUPER tight, so I'm loathe to just go buy stuff I already own back home. I was hoping to get lucky and find a friend has tools I can borrow, but so far not much!

Regarding the oil, I already asked the owner and he pointed out that what I'll call the camshaft cover - the sheet metal stamping that covers the top of the head - is weeping, and more on one spot than around the rim. And this began after he'd had some workshop do something or other to it. But if you're saying that doesn't explain it, well, "I'm all ears!"

Notably, the owner said that when the turbo went out, "oil went everywhere", but he replaced the turbo, etc... Hmmm. Thoughts welcome, of course.

 

[RTIII]

But what is that disconnected hose peeping from in-between the two shiny aluminum cable sleeves? Looks like a coolant hose..
Edit: looks like a coolant hose from the egr cooler with the clamp a few inches down, did you lose a bunch of coolant?

Just before leaving on this trip, the owner warned me that the heater core in the dash area was failing and so I had my workshop's neighbor - a business that caters to most all cars - disconnect it so it can't fail on the trip. I presume that's it.

 

[J_dude]

Intercooler ducting looks fine...

Intercooler_ducting_lower_1.jpg

• RTIII
• 39 minutes ago

The intercooler's plumbing all looks "ordenung" (normal in German - possibly bad spelling!) to...

Um that is a lot of oil, and oil on intercooler/charge pipes usually means a boost leak.
But I’d definitely start with replacing those vacuum lines. They can look fine and still be cracked under the cloth sheathing too so I’d just replace them all.

 

[RTIII]

Exhaust Gas Recirculation

Uh... If you say so, turbodieseldyke! But where does it all go?! It's got to come out SOMEWHERE, right? Hmmm...

On the engines I work on, there is no EGR! (my era is 1948 - 1965, and sometimes to about '71)

 

[RTIII]

Um that is a lot of oil, and oil on intercooler/charge pipes usually means a boost leak.
But I’d definitely start with replacing those vacuum lines. They can look fine and still be cracked under the cloth sheathing too so I’d just replace them all.

My plan is to replace ALL the 3.5mm hoses, and maybe hold off on the 5mm until I get back because they wanted grab-your-ankles prices for the 5mm stuff (I think the quote was $67 and change, plus tax for a few inches of hose?! INSANE!), and if it needs it before I head back, I'll just use "imperial units" hose from a local auto-parts store.

As for the boost leak issue... from whence does the oil come? Where do I look if the hoses don't do the job?

 

[braddies]

Borrowed this pic from Darksidedevelopements showing the clip type boost hose connections in "leak" position, note that they're not square here and can be seated on a little further, the oily residue is another giveway that the compressed air from the turbo is escaping the system

 

[J_dude]

My plan is to replace ALL the 3.5mm hoses, and maybe hold off on the 5mm until I get back because they wanted grab-your-ankles prices for the 5mm stuff (I think the quote was $67 and change, plus tax for a few inches of hose?! INSANE!), and if it needs it before I head back, I'll just use "imperial units" hose from a local auto-parts store.

As for the boost leak issue... from whence does the oil come? Where do I look if the hoses don't do the job?

Golly that’s kinda steep, honestly you could even use washer fluid hose or whatever you can get your hands on just temporarily to see if that fixes the issue, doesn’t have to be the special cloth covered stuff.

These cars usually have a fair bit of oil in the intake tract post-turbo, so if there’s a boost leak it’ll blow some of that oily residue out, makes it easy to find boost leaks lol. The intercooler piping has a couple stupid clip connections that can leak.

I see braddies already beat me to it

 

[braddies]

This vac line looks like it's done,

we have oil all over the place some (all?) coming from the valve cover making it harder to find a boost leak but I think we're back to replacing vac lines and pulling obd codes

 

[JETaah]

The intake oil comes from both the crankcase vent and the turbo when there is no boost present to help keep it confined to where it should be...inside the turbo.

The boost hose joints can seep oil like that without having a real significant effect on the boost. Those joints are notorious for seepage but it would not hurt to actually look at their condition. They can get folded over and broken (and worn). I wish that they had never changed it from a barb with clamp fitting.
Yup the vacuum hoses are a mess. The brake booster tube being a major player in this.

 

[jmodge]

I wouldn't use the word "bothered", jmodge, because I'm pushed by outside forces, including time, space (that is, availability to where the car is), important meetings already scheduled, etc.

However, there's also that I believe you said the vacuum system controls it and there are known issues with that, so I figured I'd fix those known issues first; is that a mistake?

Plus a workshop manual would help a lot!

Somewhere on this site I believe there’s a thread on diagnosing loss of boost, if I find it I will provide the link. There’s one on diagnosing limp mode also, which should give you a blueprint for checking the turbo control system

 

[hskrdu]

Here's CG's limp mode thread:

Diagnosing and Fixing Limp mode for A4 1.9TDI [low power troubleshooting]

Diagnosing and Fixing Limp mode for A4 1.9TDI By Canadian Grizzly Read the entire post prior to jumping to conclusions. This is a general overview on how to diagnose and fix a A4 1.9TDI that goes into “limp” mode due to an overboost of the turbo. While I’m by no means an expert I’ve gleaned...

forums.tdiclub.com

If you buy the vacuum lines from one of our trusted vendors, you'll get the right stuff at better prices (and usually quickly).

 

[RTIII]

MORE great input from you folks - ALL who have responded here are AWESOME! ... You're what I would call a water-cooled version of the air-cooled community one can find at The Samba!

I'll respond to those new postings shortly; I'm here now to report on more real progress today!

First off, I had a roughly 45+ year friend show up today with some tools, including an ODBII reader! And, we did some diagnostics, too, though not too much more.

For ODBII codes, we got:

Current DTCS ($03)
Pending DTCS ($07)
Permanent DTCS ($0A)

That's about it, but he left the unit in my hands so I can check things again later... I understand the readers can reset things, too, right? Anyone with tips on that, please share as my buddy doesn't know anything about that, unfortunately.

We also re-performed the exhaust air-flow test again - nice to have a trusted friend to work with! - and we determined there IS NO BLOCKAGE from these pristine looking cat and muffler components.

Next up, I've got some images to add - not too many - and some new posts from you folks to ponder and reply to!

 

[RTIII]

First things first:

ALL THREE of the ODB codes are saying it's a fuel problem!

• Current means "fuel system"
• Pending means "long-term fuel trim"
• Permanent means "fuel pressure"

...This from a trusted friend who works with these things all the time and said that these are actually older ODBI hold-overs because they don't fit the younger format - first clue, he says.

It was HIS hunch it was a fuel filter issue as the first check! However, we KNOW from visuals that the vacuum hoses are bad. The good news there is the VW dealership says they're expected by between 8:30 and 9AM tomorrow! YAY! I'll try and be there AT 9AM!

Regarding the fuel issue, he says there is or should be a knurled fitting on the bottom that is used to drain water from the filter. He recommended draining and if water comes out, drain until there is no more and "every Diesel owner should know to check this regularly and simply replace the filter at 1500 miles!" But of course, I'm ignorant about these things.

He says that if I were to replace the filter, BEWARE losing prime. ... Got a pointer on that? How to properly replace a filter, he explained, varies from system to system to keep it primed, with some having one feature or another to help keep prime, and which applies here is unknown to him.

SURELY I'll drain until only diesel fuel comes out. But if the filter needs replacement, I'll need some advice...

DID NOT replace the cat or anything else today, and glad I didn't!

Thoughts on all this quite welcome, of course! New images coming, too.

My present thinking is: all the 3.5mm vacuum lines, drain filter, and see... Thoughts?

I also forgot to note above that the noise check indicates ALL the noise, while stationary, is in front and the rattling I was reporting is RPM related, and when not stuck at a bad RPM is fairly brief. In these no load test runs, it only happened at a transitional RPM. And I suppose it's only really present for a notable amount of time as I'm trying to launch the gutless-wonder that this is without the boost. ... I'm usually more careful in my descriptions - sorry if I over-spoke that one, it's just frustrating.

I'm apparently getting an education I wasn't counting on! ... could be worse; I REALLY like this car - and its engine.

 

[hskrdu]

Regarding the fuel issue, he says there is or should be a knurled fitting on the bottom that is used to drain water from the filter. He recommended draining and if water comes out, drain until there is no more and "every Diesel owner should know to check this regularly and simply replace the filter at 1500 miles!" But of course, I'm ignorant about these things.

I'be never seen a drop of water come out of any Mk4 fuel filter (via the fuel water separator valve at the bottom) but feel free to check it. For $19, easier to replace it with an good OEM version. Many owners keep an extra fuel filter in the trunk just in case.

He says that if I were to replace the filter, BEWARE losing prime. ... Got a pointer on that? How to properly replace a filter, he explained, varies from system to system to keep it primed, with some having one feature or another to help keep prime, and which applies here is unknown to him.

Super easy on the ALH Mk4: Buy a bottle of Diesel Kleen at any Walmart and pre-fill the new fuel filter, and let it settle throughout the filter element. Once the engine starts, rev it a little for 30 seconds amd pull the fuel through. Replacement of the fuel filter (canister) takes all of 15 minutes and requires a phillips head screwdriver and a tool to compress and slide the fuel hose clamps. A new fuel filter will come with new o-rings at the T fitting. Don't lose the mickey mouse clip. Don't injure the new o-rings on install. A little lube on the fuel lines will help move the fuel hose clamps. Lots of how-tos and videos on this.

My present thinking is: all the 3.5mm vacuum lines, drain filter, and see... Thoughts?

Take a photo of each vacuum area for reference but double check the routing (the previous work isn't always incorrect). Replace the vacuum hoses one at a time. Carefully remove the old, size the new, and use a clean sharp tool for the cut. Replace and move on to the next one. Don't skip the larger diameter ones. Be careful with the plastic nipples that tubing attaches to (direct pull can break the plastic). I mark the new section with paint pen so I can track what has been done.

Parts:

Diesel Parts Online | IDParts.com - Diesel Parts

IDParts.com the best diesel parts specialty store! Parts for VW TDI, Parts for Mercedes Diesel, Parts for Sprinter Vans and Parts for all Diesels

www.idparts.com

Cascade German Parts – Retailer of New OEM Volkswagen Audi Group Auto Parts

www.cascadegerman.com

Marquette Automotive AKA www.metalmanparts.com

Marquette Automotive AKA www.metalmanparts.com Offering Parts and Service for VW Cars, Specializing in Diesel TDI models.

metalmanparts.com

 

[P2B]

Slice the old hoses along the length of the nipple and peel them off to avoid breaking brittle plastic.

The DTCs you posted above are meaningless, apparently the reader doesn't speak VW.

 

[LarrE345]

So... Got back to the machine late in the day and had the guy who owns the house rev up the engine to 2k while I was holding a hand under the cold exhaust tips of the muffler, and I was rather surprised when it seemed to output LESS flow at 2k RPM than at idle?! STRANGE! Maybe I should have had him rev it to 3K? (I'm hesitant about that because unloaded RPM much above an idle is very harmful to internal combustion engines - the higher the RPM the worse it is.)

Given the apparent test results and the baby-rattle sounds I've heard at times, I'm thinking, yeah, maybe the cat's core really did die and clog things up, or perhaps the muffler (too?) and so, in talking with the owner, tomorrow I drive it to get the ODBII code(s) read and have a muffler shop do their thing on it. ... Owner suggested having them use a laser temperature probe (have one in my own workshop, they're nice!) on it to try and confirm things, so I'll talk to 'em about it.

As for the hoses:



That agrees with the dealership.



The dealership agrees with the 5mm, and not the 3!

...I processed some photos and will load them in the AM over coffee.

Here's the 2 pages from the Bentley

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12VlIbwAtPNhV98AN96kyKsKy7C61Lz7Q/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SZZdbmpPZzzroMzfUn3diqCUDAFsEJeB/view?usp=share_link

And, here's where I've been buying parts for the car: https://www.fcpeuro.com/

Larry

 

[Abacus]

He recommended draining and if water comes out, drain until there is no more and "every Diesel owner should know to check this regularly and simply replace the filter at 1500 miles!"

Ha ha ha!

I have yet to see any water drain from one, and I’ve seen them go 50,000 miles with no issue. Where did he get the 1,500 miles from?

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Im at 63k on my fuel filter. So far so good, bet I'll get another 30k at minimum.

 

[dieseldonato]

Ha ha ha!

I have yet to see any water drain from one, and I’ve seen them go 50,000 miles with no issue. Where did he get the 1,500 miles from?

Water in my fuel filter is what was causing me issues right after I got it. After I replaced it, decided to cut it open, about half filled up with algae. Filter had 2-2017 marked on it. I had it all of 2 weeks at that point and previous owner had it for under 2 years. Clogged filters happen. Water in fuel happens too. Seen it a lot working heavy duty diesel.

 

[STDOUBT]

BTW, I figure you're a unix user! But I've never before contemplated redirecting standard doubt!

Slackware is the only OS that makes me not want to vomit. But don't mind me, I can barely write a shell script

 

[Shenandoah]

IF this is a borrowed car AND you are having issues, why not take it to a shop or find a local guru to help diagnose and fix the car? Or call the owner and ask for advice? You're mentioning some expensive items to repair/replace (on a borrowed car): exhaust downpipe, turbo.

It sounds like you have limited tools with you at the moment?

Eric