Tranny Flush Machine Pro's/Con's

tdiblair

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On the verge of buying the Vag-Com to do the ATF refill once with filter change and then just a dilluting drain/ re-fill ( leave the filter on) about 1,000 miles later.

For the heck of it I called a shop looking for a guy with the $5000 ATF transfer machine. Asked if he could drop my pan - change the filter and then do the flush on the machine. He didn't have one and argued that the tranny flush machine wouldn't do me much good because I would be transfering all the old fluid thru my new filter with the machine. He felt it was wonderful to do if I wanted close to a full flush of the old fluid with new - but didn't have a way to keep my new filter from absorbing the old fluid as it was eventually circulated out on the machine. I'm assuming a new tranny filter - rated for 100K - would probably absorb that short duration of old fluid during the process and still be at 95% clean media remaining, but this guy didn't seem to agree with me.

Granted, he may have been coming up with an excuse as to why he did not have the ATF fluid transfer machine, but I'd like to here some opinions from those who know more than me.

He wanted $232.65 to do it the old fashion way. If I supplied the ATF it would be $75 less - very close to a Vag-Com VCDS Liscense with KII-USB INTERFACE - so with two Passats and a second flush 1000 miles later on each car - I know what makes more economic sense and I seem headed that way - but before I bit the VAG-Com bullet, the flush machine interested me enought to make a call - I'm just not sure about his point on his closing argument - " why pump old fluid through your new filter?"

Blair
 

Lug_Nut

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So leave the old filter on for the flush.
Then drop the pan, replace the filter and the few liters of oil in the pan.
 

thundershorts

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they now do not call it a flush, its called a fluid exchange machine because thats what it does. your transmission pumps all the fluid through the filter. it goes from the filter directly through the pump. If you change the fluid/filter and later change the fluid, most of the old fluid is out of there, plus you have cleaned the silt from normal wear out. no need to be more anal about it than that.
 

thundershorts

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one last thing, there is a temp range that you can measure easily without a vag-com, however anyone who owns a vw product ought to have one.
 

tdiblair

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Lug Nut,

I Wish I had your common sense when I was talking to that guy. Do you have extra for sale? Talking of common sense, I'd have to find someone like a MoGolf or OilHammer (listed in alphabetical order only) who can break from an assembly line pattern and add your extra step. Those types are hard to find in CT. This particular guy even went so far as to say the flush machine's hoses can't take the synthetic ATF such as the Audi/VW fully snythetic ATF # G-052-162-A2. I found that very hard to beleive. What MFG skimps on the hoses for a $5000 flush machine ? Well, I was in a very whimpy position to counter his claim, since I've never seen one of these machines outside of a web-site photo.

I'm not so sure all the G-052-162-A2 AFT out there is fully synthetic and I wanted to keep the old and new ATF to be as compatable as possible. I understand the vendor who supplies the ATF for the Audi/VW labeled cans may have changed hands several times between 2005 and 2011. Just figured the Audi/VW ATF label was my best shot in the dark. Most will say the meeting of the VW spec number is suppose to take care of the compatability, but I didn't want to push my tranny's luck and the margine of compatible might be getting wider as time goes on. I was reading some websites on the original fill oil for some ZF trannys, I was seeing stuff I could not beleive. Think Esso Germany was the original factory fill ATF for some ZF model trannys and very expensive over there. Then as the years passed, other vendors of ATF started blending to meet the VW spec for some ZF trannys. The wanted to capture some of the market and I saw some common names you see in this country at some junky discount auto stores, being used in these other ZF's. I have no clue what one can beleive on some web site, but some of the guys were listing ATF fluid for their ZF's model tranny at very low prices compared to what I'm buying. I don't think our 01V was included, but others were using ATF at $3 to $6 a liter and claiming it met the VW or ZF spec. No I'm not going to list what I read. I would have zero clue if it's true or if I miss read the info and don't want anyone to toast a tranny to save $50.

Like Tough Tony, I think these old bones will just take 2 advil, buy Vag-Com and lie back on some nice concrete for a while. It's 13F tonight, but on Saturday we go tropical. High of 37F -low 28F. Perfect day to open the windows and air the place out and lie on concrete.

Blair
 

aja8888

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Cold??

Gee, I don't know if I could handle cold concrete floors anymore. You have guts, we had 75 F!

Even still, after I put the pan back on, refilled the pan, hooked up the laptop, and got it full and running out @30C, I had oil-soaked arms, elbow scrapes and the next day I had some pains where I didn't think could hurt.:rolleyes:

I had to put off the axle pull/reboot until I can muster up the confidence to hurt all over again. :p
 

LoneLIPumpeDuse

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cold hard floors are for 20 or 30 yr ol's

:eek: Do your self a favor and go to a store that sells appliances and get a washer or refrigerator cardboard box to lie on. 1/2" or more of cardboard is very comfy, warm, absorbant and easy to slide around on. Concrete floor... only in emergency these days:eek:


Like Tough Tony, I think these old bones will just take 2 advil, buy Vag-Com and lie back on some nice concrete for a while. It's 13F tonight, but on Saturday we go tropical. High of 37F -low 28F. Perfect day to open the windows and air the place out and lie on concrete.
Blair
 

thundershorts

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older rotary lifts are about 500 around here. easy to install, and then you are living large.
 

tdiblair

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ThunderShorts,


you mention an easy way of getting the temp of the ATF without VagCom. Would that be the luke warm hand on the pan test or one of those I.R. temp gun readings shot at the bottom of the pan or you have a better idea?

I'm not the brightess bulb on the forum when it comes to mechanics mixed in with electronics. Vag might be good to have for most, but overkill in my hands. It might have features I like. Some guys mentioned back in 2001 when I had a Jetta TDI of a way to shut down the EGR valve with Vag. The older TDI's intake manifolds would clog up with gunk- carbon to an amazing degree at about 80K. Easy enough to clean if you had 3 or 4 hours...but a pain. Some think with the new Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel that the intake manifold issue will be less. That's a guess by some and I'm not sure it holds any water nor has anyone I know tracked the intake manifold issue now that ULSD has been around for a while. Regardless some guys were punching in a code to set the Jetta to some ' Off Road' application which shut down their EGR valve. I think ohters were replacing it with a stainless tube from Metelnerd? The rumor was the shut down EGR would stop the gunk build up. Dunno how accepted this was by the more knowledgable on that forum. It was somewhere between old wives tales and forum science. That kind of flexibilty would be nice - if shutting off the EGR stops the intake clogging and does not create another problem. Only thing I worry about is this. The car's intake was designed with a fully functioning EGR valve (??) So would one create another problem if the EGR was electronically shut down? Would I create, perhaps, a new condensation issue in the intake by leaving the EGR set to off? Dunno, just not sure what I would do with Vag-Com after the tranny flushes other than wait for a cell to pop up one day. It would pay for itself on just the two Tranny jobs, but not if you thinking a $40 I.R. temp gun will do the same or another method.

Blair
 

johnboy00

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aja8888

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ThunderShorts,


you mention an easy way of getting the temp of the ATF without VagCom. Would that be the luke warm hand on the pan test or one of those I.R. temp gun readings shot at the bottom of the pan or you have a better idea?

Blair
Blair, I think I mentioned in another post or PM that this is not rocket science. From room temperature, with all the fluid you can get in the pan before it runs out (hand pump here), if you start the engine and have someone run it through the gears, in about 7 - 10 minutes, the fluid will be ~30C, which is at the lower range needed. If you are pumping additional fluid in the filler pipe, it will come out (be full) somewhere within the 7 - 10 minutes of running. That should be sufficient.

You really don't NEED a VCDS for this if you are just doing a drain/re-fill. My experience is that if you end up putting back in the transmission about the same amount of fluid you took out, all will be good.;)
 

tdiblair

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Blair, I think I mentioned in another post or PM that this is not rocket science. From room temperature, with all the fluid you can get in the pan before it runs out (hand pump here), if you start the engine and have someone run it through the gears, in about 7 - 10 minutes, the fluid will be ~30C, which is at the lower range needed. If you are pumping additional fluid in the filler pipe, it will come out (be full) somewhere within the 7 - 10 minutes of running. That should be sufficient.

You really don't NEED a VCDS for this if you are just doing a drain/re-fill. My experience is that if you end up putting back in the transmission about the same amount of fluid you took out, all will be good.;)

Well Tony, I know your right, but I'd just sleep better knowing I had the right temperature range for that fill level on the over flow.

1) I assume you drain the tranny pan with engine off to avoid tranny fluid starvation.

2) Once drained - you then add ATF back in, right to overflow, again with ENGINE STILL OFF to get some fluid in the pan and avoid starvation for when you turn the car back on?

3) Then screw back in the ' Fill/Drain' plug semi tight (not torqued to spec) and start the engine - with roughly the right fill but you get to 30C in about 10 minutes of shifting though all the gears at 10 second intervals per shift?

4) With engine still 'RUNNING' - Emergency Brake on and shift selector in PARK then crawl back under the car - un-screw the "drain/fill" plug and re-check the level until you get slight overflow again and torque down fill/drain plug and call it a day? Do I have this all correct right.

Blair
 

leicaman

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She also throws away any tool catalogs that come in the mail before I get home from work....:rolleyes:

Sort of like hiding nursing uniform catalogs that come to my house. Heck why worry about catalogs when you can....go online to your heart's content!
 

aja8888

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Well Tony, I know your right, but I'd just sleep better knowing I had the right temperature range for that fill level on the over flow.

1) I assume you drain the tranny pan with engine off to avoid tranny fluid starvation.

Correct

2) Once drained - you then add ATF back in, right to overflow, again with ENGINE STILL OFF to get some fluid in the pan and avoid starvation for when you turn the car back on?

Correct

3) Then screw back in the ' Fill/Drain' plug semi tight (not torqued to spec) and start the engine - with roughly the right fill but you get to 30C in about 10 minutes of shifting though all the gears at 10 second intervals per shift?

Correct

4) With engine still 'RUNNING' - Emergency Brake on and shift selector in PARK then crawl back under the car - un-screw the "drain/fill" plug and re-check the level until you get slight overflow again and torque down fill/drain plug and call it a day? Do I have this all correct right.

Correct

Blair
That will do it. Nothing too fancy. On the last step, if no fluid is coming out, you pump in more until it start to run out.
 
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tdiblair

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"http://www.amazon.com/Proaccurate-Di.../dp/B00046YFHE" From JohnBoy00

Johnboy00,

You, LugNut, Tough Tony and ThunderShorts are killing me with your common sense solutions. I'm sitting here, mouth open, wondering why I didn't think of this. The wife has two of them. I bet the big "L " shaped prong would fit though the rectangular hole in the top of the check/fill plug tunnel and then drop down into the ATF and give a perfect reading for when my car reaches medium rare. Her's even has an alarm on it to go off at a preset temp selection. So now I'll be sitting in the car - shifting through the gears until the buzzer goes off on her fancy gormet cooking device. I was going to order the VAG tomorrow. Now I'm just going to slap myself in the face tomorrow and save the Vag Purchase for a bigger event.

Have you actually done this - what I mean is I have not actually seen the inside diameter of the Fill Check Tunnel and dunno if the big ' L' on the sensor prong actually fits up that hole - or - do you just tape the prong to the tranny pan? I know you'll probably say the margine for a temp reading is a wide margin or error - but- I wanted to get an inside the pan and wet ATF temp reading from the tranny's core because I think a reading off the ouside of the pan will be cooler than a reading inside the tranny pan.

Yeah, I know, I'm getting too carried away - but I'm wired that way when it comes to my cars.

thanks

Blair
 

tdiblair

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Tough Tony

That will do it. Nothing too fancy. On the last step, if no fluid is coming out, you pump in more until it start to run out.

Tony,

Thanks for reviewing my check list. I always feel better after you give me the ok.
 

thundershorts

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Blair, the fluid is circulating at a pretty good clip, you wouldn't find but a degree or so difference from pan temp.
 

thundershorts

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of course when you are doing the final fill the fluid isn't heated.
 

thundershorts

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you could buy a 2.5 gallon sun shower bag at a sporting goods store to make the fill easier. gf nixed the request to borrow her douche bag..
 

aja8888

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of course when you are doing the final fill the fluid isn't heated.
True, and all you are really doing is topping it off. This is why it is not rocket science and there is some variability in sump quantity contents.

Now, if one were to get fancy, you could heat up the quart you are going to top it off with, but that is for the anal ones here to do.:rolleyes:
 

johnboy00

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Tdiblair,

I have not used a cooking thermometer, in fact I've always brought my car in for transmission service, but that's because I don't want to deal with the fluid and mess.
 

thundershorts

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just don't go to sears, and their mystery fluid.
 

tdiblair

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Well, what would you guys do. A OEM VW tranny filter is around $50. Cheap Clones of the OEM filter/strainer are down to $19-ish. Same thing with the pan gasket. Want a VW (even at Impex) its big bucks - buy some no name gaskets its 1/3 the price.

The filter and gasket for OEM are way up there, but a little bird told me teh OEM ATF filter (strainer as they say) is rated for 100,000 miles. So I wonder if the filtering media is that much better on the OEM than the cheaper clones ? Would anyone have a clue. As to the gasket, no I don't like the big bucks for a OEM gasket - then again - I wouldn't want a leaky gasket either, just to save a few bucks either.

Do you guys have any issues or noticed a big drop in quality when you pulled your original VW filter and gasket off the car and replaced them with the cheaper cloned parts or are you happy with less expensive parts. It may be tough to judge the filter without hacking into both the clone and the OEM fitler - but did the cheaper pan gaskets seem similar in quality as the OEM gasket?

Blair
 

aja8888

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I'm on my second non-OEM gasket - no leaks (with roughly 30 cap screws holding the pan on, it's hard to believe it will leak with any gasket).

The filter? I'm on the second replacement (non-OEM also). This one was clean, no shrapnel inside, and probably could have been left in for another 50K.

Also, I am at 115K and the trans is still working. However, we all know about the potential TC issue.
 
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