Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

[danix]

Glad to see the site back.

I can now confirm the following: ASR/EDL can be retrofitted to our cars simply by swapping the hydro unit and computer from a car that has this feature. My 99.5 Jetta is happily NOT chirping its tires in 1st and 2nd gears.

What I have not figured out yet is the wiring - the unit is powered up already, all I need is the defeat, if I want it.

This mod makes a world of difference - remember my threads about the car having no traction? That problem is nicely remedied now, at least at lower speeds with EDL.

I would say that after the Upsolute chip, this mod was the most bang for the buck and the one I would do over all others besides the chip.

Eric (SVTWEB) has now also done this on a 2002 car, and has figured out the wiring.

 

[Michael Moore]

Danix:

Thanks for all the great work on this project. I am really looking forward to doing it myself (sounds like less of a headache than PDC <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Here are a series of wiring diagrams that deal with various combinations of ABS. They are from the European service information, so be alert for possible differences with your North American car.

Wiring Diagram 07 - Anti-locking brake system (ABS), Anti-locking brake system (ABS) with electronic differential lock (EDL).pdf
Wiring Diagram 12a - Anti-locking brake system (ABS), Anti-locking brake system (ABS) with electronic differential lock (EDL), and traction control system (TCS).pdf
Wiring Diagram 46 - Anti-lock brake system (ABS) with electronic differential lock (EDL), traction control system (TCS).pdf
Wiring Diagram 58 - Anti-locking brake system (ABS), Anti-locking brake system (ABS) with electronic differential lock.pdf

Michael

 

[tongsli]

Michael,

The PDF you posted doesn't show an ASR switch

L

 

[tongsli]

Michael,

For your consideration...

 

[Michael Moore]

Tongsli:

I don't have the knowledge to comment with confidence on the diagram. I will go to my Canadian dealer tomorrow and get the correct wiring diagram that shows the switch.

Michael

 

[danix]

I'm pretty clear on the diagram - I still don't quite get how it works, as there is some momentary switching going on, but all I need to do is find the wires I need to tap. Again, Eric (svtweb) has this done.

I will soon have another hydro unit on the way for the next candidate...

 

[Michael Moore]

Lito, Danix:

Try this diagram, it has a switch shown on sheet 5. Hope this is the correct one.

12a - Anti-locking brake system (ABS), Anti-locking brake system (ABS) with electronic differential lock (EDL), and traction control system (TCS).pdf (68 kb)

 

[oldpoopie]

so does this wind up being a poor mans quaife?

 

[tongsli]

Michael,

that's the right diagram.

L

 

[danix]

Put it to you this way -I thought the car sucked in the snow even with dedicated snows. Today with Zrated summer tires I was able to get home at brisk speeds without any trouble in some rain/snow mix. Like I said, it's right up there with Upsolute as a must have.

 

[eluwak]

Originally posted by oldpoopie:
so does this wind up being a poor mans quaife?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is the total cost/parts list for this project if I were to buy this new? What would be the difficulty rating from 1 (raplace valve stem cover) to 10 (installing quaife)? Down here in the rain I have very little traction and have to start off very slow to avoid sitting there and spinning my wheels so I am interested in this mod.

Thanks in advance

 

[MOGolf]

Originally posted by SVTWEB:
The Hydri unit is the only difference between the cars With ASR and the cars without.

The ASR/EDL hydro Unit's have an extra pair of solinoid valves to give it the capabilities of ASR.

The problem that I have is 2002 Vehicles use te Mk. 60 ABS/EDL/ASR unit, the 2001 and earlier use the Mk. 20......

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was reviewing this thread and have to pick a nit here. The change from Mark 20 unit to Mark 60 occurred during the 2001 model year. Early 2001's had Mark 20. Later 2001 have Mark 60. My Golf built 12/00 has a Mark 60. VAG-COM reports it as such.

The Bentley (hardcopy page 45-9) indicates the Mark 60 is only ABS or ABS/ASR (no indication of EDL). However, the new CD version states there are 4 different controllers.

1C0 907 379 C / J ABS

1C0 907 379 D / K ABS/EDL/ASR

1C0 907 379 E / G ABS/EDL/ASR/ESP

1C0 907 379 F / H ABS/EDL/ASR/ESP 4MOTION

Bentley (hardcopy) reports 2001 Jetta's got the Mark 60 from vehicle #9M-1-094323. No number provided for Golf/GTI.

And I didn't notice mention of using VAG-COM or equivalent to code the control module according to the tables in the Bentley.

[ March 26, 2002, 16:18: Message edited by: MOGolf ]

 

[SVTWEB]

The date was a misquote on my part.. They started using the Mk60's in 2001MY.....

As for the rest of the post.... I'm not sure what kind of answer your looking for?

[ March 26, 2002, 18:52: Message edited by: SVTWEB ]

 

[oldpoopie]

so how much $ for the upgrade?

 

[danix]

Cost - used controller/hydro unit, $100-500 depending where you buy it.
1 liter brake fluid, $10.
Having traction at last, priceless.

Difficulty - not very. If you can carefully use a wrench and know how to bleed/flush your brake fluid, it's about a 3 on a scale of 1-10, about the same as doing a brake job, but less labor.
I combined mine with a complete brake job.

In broad strokes:
- jack up car, remove 4 wheels
- (optional) R/R brakes all around
- remove airbox, MAF
- crack FL brake line to release pressure
- carefully remove brake lines (6) at hydro unit
- release 2 hydro unit mounting bolts
- install new unit, attach lines
- drain old brake fluid
- install new brake fluid
- pressure bleed entire brake system

No reprogamming of anything or rewiring was needed. To gain a defeat switch some wiring will need to be done, but I don't see the need unless you are racing or something.

 

[eluwak]

Originally posted by danix:
Cost - used controller/hydro unit, $100-500 depending where you buy it.
1 liter brake fluid, $10.
Having traction at last, priceless.

Difficulty - not very. If you can carefully use a wrench and know how to bleed/flush your brake fluid, it's about a 3 on a scale of 1-10, about the same as doing a brake job, but less labor.
I combined mine with a complete brake job.

In broad strokes:
- jack up car, remove 4 wheels
- (optional) R/R brakes all around
- remove airbox, MAF
- crack FL brake line to release pressure
- carefully remove brake lines (6) at hydro unit
- release 2 hydro unit mounting bolts
- install new unit, attach lines
- drain old brake fluid
- install new brake fluid
- pressure bleed entire brake system

No reprogamming of anything or rewiring was needed. To gain a defeat switch some wiring will need to be done, but I don't see the need unless you are racing or something.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thanks dan... sounds like i need to head out to the junkyard to scrounge a hydo/controller unit

 

[PWM]

Mine is 1J0 614 217 E - So what type this is ?
(Reads on the black sticker on the side of round thing on top of the ABS-box ..)

BTW - There is other thing that I cannot find from anywhere ...
What kind of front springs are 2x pink and 1x yellow ?

It seems guite difficult to find the info ...
Thanks anyway

 

[danix]

For spring codes, try http://catalog.exist.ru.

The 217 part number sounds correct - the real test is whether it says "ABS/EDL/ASR" underneath the computer.

The hydro unit itself is also slightly wider.
I will post photos of both parts before/after, I just bought a spare EDL unit.

 

[PWM]

I didn't find those spring codes from there ...
(Therefore I asked from here in the first place ..)
It should be the stiffer 'sport' type spings (w. air conditioning) ..

The ABS should be ABS/EDL/ASR type ..

.. But I don't know for sure

 

[eluwak]

Originally posted by PWM:
Mine is 1J0 614 217 E - So what type this is ?
(Reads on the black sticker on the side of round thing on top of the ABS-box ..)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mine is a 1J0 614 117 E which appears to be a mark 60 unit (with ABS only?) but I dunno for sure. My guess is based soley on the fact that it is mounted vertically and not horizontally. Is this correct?

I'm excited about this upgrade but I have a few more questions...

According to the doc that Michael Moore posted on the ESP the EDL is the system that uses the brakes to control wheel slip and the ASR uses the engine management system to reduce torque, so I guess my question here is the new setup does which one or both?

I was looking at the bentley to see the difficulty and was thinking of the EDL valve connections on diagram 9/3 page 97-136 (pic below, sorry for the poor quality). As mentioned before the new hydro unit has the two additional solonoid connections (N125 and N126 I assume), do we have to connect something new to these?

Again thanks in advance for any help guys

 

[NYTDI]

I asked about this in a previous post. Apparently Bentley is wrong on this AGAIN

 

[danix]

The valves are internal to the unit. As I said, plug and play.

 

[Birdman]

Whats the part # off the ASR unit. Tring to find one in the Used or rebuilt.

 

[Birdman]

((can now confirm the following: ASR/EDL can be retrofitted to our cars simply by swapping the hydro unit and computer from a car that has this feature. My 2001 Jetta is happily NOT chirping its tires in 1st and 2nd gears.))
By computer do you mean the black part on the bottom of the Hydro. Unit or do i need another part.
Have found a wrecked VR6 with ASR on it but want to make sure i get all parts needed.

 

[eluwak]

I believe he replaced the hydro unit with the computer attached as one unit (computer is the black module i think)

 

[Birdman]

That,s what i thought by was not sure. Thanks

 

[tongsli]

Jerry,

The two pieces come attached. After you remove the brake lines, there are a few more bolts that hold the unit in place.

Pretty easy to remove.

Lito

 

[Erik Lupo 3L]

Having the Lupo 3L with very narrow and hard tires to save fuel, and on top of that a, politely said, less than perfect "automatic" transmission, which is actually an electrically operated manual gearbox, I often find myself in desperately in need of traction as I pull off.
I know that the 100+ HP Lupo GTI comes with ASR, so based on what I have read in the thread above, I could also get ASR easily if I found a donor car?

 

[tongsli]

No, I would not assume that based upon these postings.

You should look up the parts to see if they are similar versions of the same thing.

Check harness connections and the brake line connectors too.

Lito

 

[Birdman]

Install the ASR unit this morning Part # 1j0907379r 285.00 from VW Parts including Switch.
The part # is for the computer part just tell them you want the whole unit. Talk to Eric.
Install is as easy as those who pioneered it said and works well. tire,s on gravel drive won,t spin.
1 problem with wiring up the switch. the bently shows the asr unit wire T 25/15, going to T32a/14 in the instrument cluster connecting to K155 the ASR light. well the ASR light works (blinks when stopping wheel spin) BUT does not connect to T32a/14, T15 wire on the ASR unit is there so where does it end up. the bentley shows 2 wiring diagrams 1 from Sept 98 with the T25 connector and Aug 2000 showing the T47 connector.
Has anyone found the right wiring for the T25 connector settup. I guess i am missing it somewhere.