Toyota Prius

[greenskeeper]

This would be the wife's car....the search continues lol.

She does not feel comfortable driving a manual transmission car.

I want something with high mpgs (diesel)

vw makes crappy auto transmissions behind their diesels

this leads me to look at a prius.

"automatic" transmission (although it is a gas engine with electric motor) that can get high 40s into 50s mpg wise

90% of her driving is in the city below 50 mph...vehicle would be driven less than 10k per year.

so I ask...reasons to get a prius? reasons not to?

 

[Steel]

Those seem like the exact conditions where a Prius beats out a TDI pretty easily. I say go for it.

 

[TurbinePower]

Under 10k miles a year, you'd probably be better off going with one of the light, cheaper "city" type cars. You aren't paying a premium for the hybrid system, and the >30mpg they get in a city isn't anything to sneeze at.

 

[jbright]

Indeed Prius would be a steam roller hit if it were priced the same as the Civic/Corolla, etc. But @ 2x the price, and Civic's 38-42 vs 47 for the Prius, it would take a VERY long time to B/E on a 7 mpg difference with say 15,000 miles per year. ($170 per year fuel savings 14.17 a month more in fuel, 70 years as a minimum). This is not to mention $12,000 to 15,000 burning a hole IN one's bank account (cash is KING??) , rather than on a depreciating asset.

Ruking, in another thread, makes a good point. If saving money is your main concern, it may be better to go with one of the many, cheaper, economy cars that still get good fuel economy. Also, the new European based Ford Fiesta is coming out soon and gets 40 mpg and costs a lot less than a Prius and is, probably, a lot more fun to drive.

 

[MrMopar]

The economy is bad, so there has got to be tons of deals on used cars with all the repos. You would do good to find a 1-year-old economy car, like a Corolla or Civic. Save close to $10,000 by not buying a hybrid.

 

[ruking]

I would agree with msg#3 and 4. In addition if one really wanted a hybrid, a used one is really the ticket. Any car, any more should be able to go 100,000 miles. The second 100,000 miles cycle is usually only doing a scheduled 100,000 miles "major tune" at most.

 

[greenskeeper]

was looking at 05s, they seem to be in the 10-12k range with around 60k miles on them.

I'd never buy a new car.

 

[GoFaster]

Yaris!

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Guy at work has a brand spanking new Yaris. He claims over 40 mpg on the freeway. Not a bad little car. Even a baseline Civic is rated 38 mpg freeway. Them gassers are catching up while diesels are taking a hit when it comes to mpg...

 

[Ski in NC]

The prius makes sense if she clocks ALOT of city miles. If she does not drive a whole lot, then a non-hybrid makes more sense.

 

[BadMonKey]

was looking at 05s, they seem to be in the 10-12k range with around 60k miles on them.

I'd never buy a new car.

As a Prius owner, the intended use, and your price range i would suggest the new Fiesta that would only run you another $1-3K brand new. You get better financing rates a new car and you don't have to worry about the abuse from the previous owner. I don't usually buy new cars either but buying a used Prius would worry me a bit and the Gen3 Prius is 100% improved over the Gen2 Prius that we own.

The Fiesta is really pretty fun to drive and has much tighter handling and road feel over a Civic or Corolla.

 

[nortones2]

I drove a new Fiesta recently. I stopped and checked the tyre pressures, the steering was so weird. Felt like it had a spring between the wheel and rack, despite Ford Europe rep for decent handling. I'd suggest trying first!

 

[FowVay]

I rented a 2010 Fiesta in Germany last fall and I was quite disappointed with it too. Everyone is so hyped because it is a neat looking car but they're nothing more than a incredibly cheap method of transportation. I'd consider it only if you couldn't afford a low-end Kia.

 

[ruking]

I rented a 2010 Fiesta in Germany last fall and I was quite disappointed with it too. Everyone is so hyped because it is a neat looking car but they're nothing more than a incredibly cheap method of transportation. I'd consider it only if you couldn't afford a low-end Kia.

While I think your experience is valid, what actually hits the US market is ANYONES guess. So for example, it would be a no brainer to say the 2011 Fiesta TDI will not make to the US market.

I have also read that fully 70% of a cars platform if you will, ww (world wide) is similar. That tidbit makes one (actually me) wonder how it can cost literally multiple thousands of dollars to meet US market guidelines. This is especially true as Europeans say they "DUMB them down from European standards" to meet US standards.

 

[oilhammer]

Get a Yaris, a Fiesta, a Versa, or an Accent/Rio. The Prius is simply not worth the price difference IMHO.

 

[Chemboy]

If you haven't seen it yet, be sure to check out this thorough review of the Ford Fiesta

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krrWeyJFsoY

--Andy

 

[slash28]

If you haven't seen it yet, be sure to check out this thorough review of the Ford Fiesta

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krrWeyJFsoY

That was worth every minute.

 

[sjjaskow]

Get a Dacia Sandero...oh wait, not available here yet...

I would say stay away from the ridiculously small cars like smart, or the IQ if they ever bring it here, they aren't worth the price. The Fiesta is promising, and some of the others are proven; but if you are against a TDI then choose what fits the budget and feels best to the prospective driver.

 

[greenskeeper]

I'd like to get another TDI, however TDI and automatic transmission don't work very well, or the automatic is linked to a cam flawed engine.

 

[MrMopar]

I rented a 2010 Fiesta in Germany last fall and I was quite disappointed with it too. Everyone is so hyped because it is a neat looking car but they're nothing more than a incredibly cheap method of transportation.

You know what the price is, so there is no sense expecting S-Class build quality.

 

[oilhammer]

..., or the automatic is linked to a cam flawed engine.

That is really something that is blown WAY out of proportion here. I no more worry about the camshaft in my PD than I do Canada declaring war on the USA.

Sorry, just see too many happy PDs rolling past 1/4 million miles here without a hiccup. There are quite a few other things on those engines that seem more likely to have an issue.

 

[TurbinePower]

And here when I took a Fiesta for a test drive, I was rather impressed with how it didn't feel plastic fantastic.

 

[greenskeeper]

If a PD has high miles, chances are they are driven highway so less wear once up to operating temp.

Our car would be driven primarily short trips for commuting with the occasional road trip down to the shore house.

 

[aja8888]

Our car would be driven primarily short trips for commuting with the occasional road trip down to the shore house.

In that case, just get a slightly used Hyundai Elantra/Accent or a Kia Rio. Big bang for the bucks there. Some models have a hatchback option, too.

Save your extra money for the coming next big dip in this economy.

 

[greenskeeper]

After driving a number of Prius cars and then getting back into my 1998 Jetta TDI I realized something.

Seems the Prius is a good high mpg car if you didn't know the TDI existed.

It's almost like a rube goldberg contraption that complicates a simply task that any 96-03 TDI can do....get 50mpg or more with conventional automotive technology.

Plus the trunk on the prius is really small compared to a Jetta.

I believe I will keep looking for an automatic TDI and take my chances with either the trans (99-03) or cam (04-06). Leaning towards an 06 because I have been seeing some really good deals out there.

How much more involved is the TB on an 06 compared to my 98 (have changed the TB on that car about 4 times)?

I think a lot of people are dumping these cars when the TB come due for service.

 

[BadMonKey]

After driving a number of Prius cars and then getting back into my 1998 Jetta TDI I realized something.

Seems the Prius is a good high mpg car if you didn't know the TDI existed.

It's almost like a rube goldberg contraption that complicates a simply task that any 96-03 TDI can do....get 50mpg or more with conventional automotive technology.

Plus the trunk on the prius is really small compared to a Jetta.

I believe I will keep looking for an automatic TDI and take my chances with either the trans (99-03) or cam (04-06). Leaning towards an 06 because I have been seeing some really good deals out there.

How much more involved is the TB on an 06 compared to my 98 (have changed the TB on that car about 4 times)?

I think a lot of people are dumping these cars when the TB come due for service.

Good luck getting 50mpg in the city with any conventional automotive technology, the 06 auto TDI will be lucky to break 35mpg in the City.

I don't see how the Prius is complicated? The only thing different is the shifter nob that has a whooping 4 options on it, the push button start is becoming common on a lot of makes.

The trunk size difference between the Prius and Jetta is exactly 1 ft3 (11.9-12.9) and with the hatchback height you can get larger objects in it?

 

[greenskeeper]

My 98 gets darn close to 50mpg in the city

The electronics on the prius aren't complicated? Ever look under the Synergy drive lid?

 

[oilhammer]

LOL, yeah, at Toyota Hybrid school they had the wiring diagram printed out for just the engine/hybrid management system and it was up on a wall.... it was about 12 feet long! It was awesome yet a bit intimidating to see it all at once like that. Luckily, Toyota bought into Panasonic who makes most of the stuff and they have had pretty good success with it.

I have seen INSIDE the invertor/MG assemblies on them, the only thing I can liken it to is the Borg Cube. Wild stuff in there, VERY complex. You shoulda seen the one that had coolant leaking in (the hybrid system has its own cooling system, and coolant actually goes INTO the assembly, right alongside the electronics!). That one was a mess!

 

[MrMopar]

I have seen INSIDE the invertor/MG assemblies on them, the only thing I can liken it to is the Borg Cube. Wild stuff in there, VERY complex. You shoulda seen the one that had coolant leaking in (the hybrid system has its own cooling system, and coolant actually goes INTO the assembly, right alongside the electronics!). That one was a mess!

Let me guess: "No user-serviceable parts inside" is the label in the service manual? Is it total unit replacement to fix any problem?

 

[oilhammer]

It was when I was there, yes. The entire ECU/invertor assembly was one part. We had one to replace on an RX400h (under warranty, it was fairly new) and it was a $6500 part .

That was when we found out about the possible coolant migration issue with them.