Towing over 2000 lbs possible

laminated

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
15 Sportwagen
wondering if we can pull a bit legally over 2000 lbs. my hitch is 2000 and need to pull about 2200 ish. wondering if I buy trailer brake setup if that helps make it legal etc
 

Grigg3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Location
Lexington, VA
TDI
05 Jetta wagon, 15 Golf wagon
Pretty sure VW says you’re not supposed to tow anything, check your owners manual.
If towing in your country with your model car is not supported by VW then towing anything isn’t exactly legal.

If you tow anyway than what’s another 200 lb?
If you’re not legal to start with then how much weight and with or without trailer brakes is up to you and what you’re comfortable with.

I tow with our 05 model and the 15 model just the same and at least around here with hills and such 1,000 lb is about all I feel comfortable with. No way I’d even try 2,000 on the road.
 

The Tortoise

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Apr 24, 2017
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Ottawa
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2015 GSW Trendline - White
How far? Any hills?

That's a lot of weight for the brakes to slow in an emergency scenario.
 

PB_NB

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Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle


It is possible tow to that weight!

You need to consider if your hitch is up to the task. Also, will you be stable enough if your hitch is maxed out and you can't get enough tongue weight (at least 10% of the trailer weight).

Do you have one of the hitches that has a 1 1/4" receiver and is just bolted to the sheet metal?

As far as trailer brakes, in BC we are allowed to tow up to 1,400 kgs without trailer brakes.
However, most manufacturers are putting axle brakes on small RV's well under 1,400 kgs. Our trailer has an empty weight of 736 kgs. and a GVW of 1,000 kgs.

It doesn't seem to matter to the insurance company what the tow vehicle is. We tried to explain the upgrades that we did to the car and they didn't really care.

My personal preference is to always have a large margin of error and not be playing with the stated maximums.

We have been towing our trailer around BC and Washington State for the last 3 years and no one has stopped us to look at the paperwork. There has been many opportunities but I guess it is not a concern for the officials.

Use your common sense to determine if this is a good idea and keep your top speed under 60 mph.
 

Grigg3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Location
Lexington, VA
TDI
05 Jetta wagon, 15 Golf wagon
The thread title is a different question than what is asked in the first post.

Towing over 2000 lbs possible?
Sure towing whatever you think you can get away with is possible at your own risk and everyone else's on the road around you. Up until you can't get away with it any longer.

"wondering if we can pull a bit legally over 2000 lbs. my hitch is 2000 ..."
Legally? No, not if the hitch is only rated for 2,000 it is only legal for 2,000.

The lowest rated part of the system sets your max towing weight. Assuming you want to be legal.
Could be car, hitch, ball adapter, ball, trailer coupler, trailer weight rating, tires, and wheels among other things. Whatever is lowest is your max ability.

Brakes don't add towing capacity to any part of the system. Brakes add some level of safety (stopping mainly) but will not increase the legal towing capacity of any part of the system above what is already specified.

A 99 beetle ( example above) probably was rated to tow at least something. (I towed a lot with a 98 Jetta, it did well and I think that was legal)
The question was asked in the MK7 forum and by my MK7 owners manual towing isn't "allowed".
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
Hi Grigg, I do believe that the Golf 2013 was Europe's tow vehicle of the year. In 2015 Seat Leon (Like a Golf) won that award.

The question does cross over as all these cars are similar in GVW (getting slightly heavier with each platform) and other capacities. Like your MK3 all the way to the MK7.5

There are several issues that come up here:
1) What does laminated's owners manual say about towing. Probably something like "Towing is not recommended/allowed". That would take the onus off the manufacturer and put it on the user.
2) Is the car still under warranty? Will VW Canada void the warranty for any future repairs due to using the car for towing?
3) Is the car a manual or DSG? It probably doesn't matter to the car or the situation but is another issue for VW in denying any warranty claim for the DSG.
4) What sort of hitch is tying this together? Are we talking about a weight distribution setup, Class 2, Class 3 or a bike rack?
5) Does the setup look scary, this will attract attention and most likely result in a pull-over. Is the hitch dragging on the road and sparks flying?
6) Where is the principal operating region? Some areas can be much more litigious than others.
7) You mention terrain and hills can be very challenging to deal with.

I am sure there are other issues but these come to mind.

My owners manual for my NB states: "information is not available at the time of printing" which is strange because this statement does not provide any direction. To make matters even more confusing, there is a "Towing" section in my manual that gives you pointers on what to do and what to avoid.

It comes down to individual discretion. Tow if you want and take your chances with all sorts of issues. My hope is that if people do tow, they do it safely to protect everyone around them. And most of all, don't drive faster than 60 mph! Bad things happen when you drive too fast.
 

fase2000TDI

Vendor
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Aug 30, 2005
Location
Chesapeake, VA, USA 401-919-0466
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2003 Jettawagon TDI; 2015 GSW 6MT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKTCXFtior4
Can it? Yes. It's physically able to. You'll need a proper hitch. Google tow-bar and your car and you'll find sites overseas which will ship them here for a premium. Keep in mind when they tow these higher weights, they often have towing assistance packages and trailer brakes which utilize the ESP system as well. You must leave plenty of following distance, and mind your speed. People have towed with MKIV's in America plenty, and found them to be great tow vehicles. You'll likely need to replace your flywheel and clutch with a SMF set up as well.
 

Discovery

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Location
Montréal
TDI
Mk7 SportWagen
I tow often with my car, maybe I can chime in.
What kind of trailer is it?
I pulled 1856lbs (trailer included) last month. You can definitely feel it back there but she did it easily. Stayed on 6th gear only to downshift on serious incline.



On the other hand, my travel trailer @1400lbs is a different animal. City driving is flawless, but on the highway aerodynamic play a big part, 6th gear is pretty much useless, oil temp rise quickly (never went over 118c (244f) but still).
You are not only pulling 1400lbs but also pushing a wall of wind, both combined put considerable strain on the car.



My usual camp out are less then 45min away and it's perfect like that. If I was all about roadtrip, I would get something more aerodynamic and/or lower than my car, like a pop up camper or this Safari Alto. It's a little bit heavier but you car not fighting the wind.
 
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PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
The Alto Safari Condo is really cool but very expensive at ~$50k CDN.

I second the aero shape compared to mine when pulling at 60 mph, you can really feel the big front cutting though the wind like the side of a barn.

I am considering an Airstream Bambi as an alternate to my Camplite. It is a tad heavier but the aero shape would make up for the difference at cruising speed.
 

laminated

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
15 Sportwagen
thanks I'm pulling firewood only a few miles.no hills.never over 80kmh weight on tongue is about 150lb, total weight I fig is 2000 , car pulls without effort, just wondering legalities
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
remember everything is legal if no one is around to tell you it isn't legal
 

dasjefe

Well-known member
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Nov 22, 2017
Location
Taylor Texas
TDI
Golf Sportwagen
No issues getting my 16.5" boat hauled around. Probably around 1500lbs in boat... and 200lbs in gear/beer.

 

Bob S.

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Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
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A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
My 15 GSW (stock), 6 spd stick, has not had much use & been a big of a garage queen since purchase with only a few long road trips. Recently, I had need to move some gear over 1k miles. Rather than use the truck, I decided to install a hitch (I went with the EcoHitch 2" receiver) on the GSW and tow with it. Last week, in hot weather (mid 90's+) the stock GSW easily towed a 5x8 Uhaul trailer loaded well into the 3k lb range over 1,100 miles. It did it with ease & was easily able to keep with interstate traffic speed. Initially, I was worried about its' ability to tow the load & stared gently. As comfort & confidence increased I increased speed & ran with the traffic. Passing & getting back out of the fast lane was not an issue. I found that I left the MFD on oil temp display. The fuel milage took a hit & cut the normal 50+ down into the a trip average of just under 28 mpg. But, for the speed I was running, load & increased wind resistance, IMHO, it did great.
 
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skyking1

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Aug 10, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2003 beetle 2002 beetle
I won't tow more than 40% of the weight of the tow vehicle without trailer brakes. I would have brakes on a 2000 pound trailer behind one of ours.
With the stage 4+ MkIV, I would be driving by the temperature gauge.
Do the common rails have better cooling?
 

nathanso

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Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Location
Redwood City, CA
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2015 GSW TDI S 6M (sold)
My 15 GSW (stock), 6 spd stick, has not had much use & been a big of a garage queen since purchase with only a few long road trips. Recently, I had need to move some gear over 1k miles. Rather than use the truck, I decided to install a hitch (I went with the EcoHitch 2" receiver) on the GSW and tow with it. Last week, in hot weather (mid 90's+) the stock GSW easily towed a 5x8 Uhaul trailer loaded well into the 3k lb range over 1,100 miles. It did it with ease & was easily able to keep with interstate traffic speed. Initially, I was worried about its' ability to tow the load & stared gently. As comfort & confidence increased I increased speed & ran with the traffic. Passing & getting back out of the fast lane was not an issue. I found that I left the MFD on oil temp display. The fuel milage took a hit & cut the normal 50+ down into the a trip average of just under 28 mpg. But, for the speed I was running, load & increased wind resistance, IMHO, it did great.
I just had the same hitch installed on my 2015 GSW 6M. Did your 1100 miles include much elevation change? My main trailering will be a single rail MC trailer.. far lighter than what you were pulling, but it's good to know that the car can do more.
 

Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
I just had the same hitch installed on my 2015 GSW 6M. Did your 1100 miles include much elevation change? My main trailering will be a single rail MC trailer.. far lighter than what you were pulling, but it's good to know that the car can do more.
Basically flat. Up & down I95. I will be making a run this week with a lighter, open trailer up to & back from Western PA where there will be some grades & will report back. I was going to use by truck for that trip, But, after the most recent trip, I am going to use the GSW.
 

Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
I won't tow more than 40% of the weight of the tow vehicle without trailer brakes. I would have brakes on a 2000 pound trailer behind one of ours.
With the stage 4+ MkIV, I would be driving by the temperature gauge.
Do the common rails have better cooling?
Understood on the trailer brakes. If I do much of this... Has anyone pit a brake controller on a GSW yet?

On the cooling question: I am not familiar with the prior CRs & can't speak to them. My understanding is the CRUA engine has better cooling and the oil cooler is coolant cooled vice air cooled. Once warmed, my coolant temp never increased & the oil temp stayed within a 10% to 15% above the coolant temp.
 

Jedadiah

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Sep 17, 2010
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Central Kentucky
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Former: '15 Passat TDI SE 6M, '15 Golf S 6M and '10 JSW
I have a Tekonsha P2 on my Golf. It's a pretty straight forward install. You can draw power from the back of the fuse block under the dash. Removing the interior trim bits to run the wiring to the back of the car isn't real fun, but fine. There is a factory ground under the sill trim near the dead pedal. The sketchiest part is getting a brake signal. I tapped the third brake light where it leaves the BCM since tapping the signal wire from the pedal to the BCM led to some unwanted behavior with the brake controller. It would turn on if I touched the brake pedal even if the car was off. It worked fine, but I didn't like it. No issue with the third brake light signal. The BCM plugs are tricky to undo and plug back up since space is limited. Once out, finding the right wire isn't too bad though. I found that it was Plug A pin 57 online somewhere and used VCDS to verify that it was on my car as well.
 
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Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
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A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
Yesterday I made a 600 mile run in the the Appalachian of MD, VWA & PA. (Stock 16 spd, 70 to 75F no significant winds. This time with an open 4x8 trailer. Unloaded on the way out & loaded weight of about 1,500 lbs on the return. The trailer extended slightly outside the car width & the load extended above the car height. Same experience as the prior one. Towing was a delight & the car handled it with ease. There were a few 7 & 8% long grades. I was always able to keep up with traffic & often was leading it including going p the long grades (actually, I think I was only passed a few times going up the grade. Average speed on the loaded return trip was 70mph with 35.5 mph until I got caught up in rush hour traffic when the avg. speed went way down & the fuel mpg went way up. My sense is that at speed, the trailer/load windage hase as much, perhaps more, effect than the weight.
 

skyking1

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Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2003 beetle 2002 beetle
With just extra weight, you get the push down every hill you climbed, unless it's an uphill run all the way ( like climbing up to Denver from the east).
With increased aerodynamic drag, it's all bad :D
It even holds you back on those downhill runs. Of course, speed kills economy and that goes exponentially when dragging a big square cornered mess behind your relatively smooth car.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
wondering if we can pull a bit legally over 2000 lbs. my hitch is 2000 and need to pull about 2200 ish. wondering if I buy trailer brake setup if that helps make it legal etc
The most I've personally towed was approximately 4500 pounds with my Mk4 Golf. 20 foot Big Tex 70-PIX trailer, a military genset on wheels over the center axles, and about 300-ish pounds of tongue weight. Keep in mind, my absolute top speed was 55mph, but 98% of my trip was doing 45-50mph in 3rd gear, and I use a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. This was before I bought a proper farm truck.

Most I've pulled with a Mk6 was the same trailer and 2 round bales of hay (so roughly 4000 pounds). Max speed was 60mph, and that car was DSG. I'm in the process of moving my towing electronics to a 2013 with a 02Q, though as a rule, I usually keep my towed weights to 3000 or less.

What hitch you use, how you balance your load, trailer brakes (which I think should be mandatory on anything over 500 pounds in the rear) and how you drive make the most difference!
 
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