Totally Confused over MK7 Oil for 507

whizznbyu

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Waxhaw, NC
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen 6 speed manual. B5 died at 302k miles.
I looked at the spec/property sheets of M1 ESPs and found an MB 229.51 and 229.31 that has roughly the same sulfur content as the VW 507, 0.6 and 0.8 respectively.
This page shows that this oil is not only approved for VW 507 but also for MB 229.51 and 229.31
https://www.mobil.com/English-GB/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-ESP-5W30
Is ESP's property purely a matter of sulfur, ash and phosphorus content? If so, it seems that the 5W-40's ash (0.6) is lower than the 5W-30's ash (0.8). Does that translate to marginally longer DPF regeneration intervals? Does it also mean that MAYBE to 5W-40 can be used instead of the 5W-30 specially in older engines? Does 5W-40 offer better shear protection than 5W-30?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Some people use 5w40 in cars requiring 507.00. A 507 oil won't have a 40 top number because the spec includes an FE standard that requires a 30 top number. But if you pick a 5w40 with the criteria you show the car should be fine. And it might offer better protection.

Miles are accumulating on the VW CR cars, however, and I've not heard of any oil related wear or failure issues. So it may not matter.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The CR VAG TDIs do not have flat tappet cam followers, which is I think the big reason 40 oils are so important in VEs and especially PDs. The CRs have little roller rockers that ride on the individual cams, and the hydraulic lash is done vie a little plunger that acts on the pivot point of the rocker. Lots of other OHC engines use this design. So they will undoubtedly long term be more tolerant of a thinner 30 oil.
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
The design that you just described is the same as the VM Motori CRD engine that is in the Jeep Liberty CRDs that I travel around the country to work on. Those are specc'd from the factory as a 0W-40 or 5W-40 diesel rated CH or higher fully synthetic.

My understanding is that the heavier oil provides better overall shear protection under the extreme conditions that a high compression engine creates, and better overall soot suspension than a lighter oil.

I will say that I have not seen any statistically valid change in fuel MPG going from the lighter oil to the heavier, but it is certainly easier to find a true diesel-rated oil in 5W-40. It also makes it easier to stock one grade of oil that is suitable for all my vehicles, and know that I have some available when I need it. The oil also remains the same color it came out of the jug for nearly half the 10k mile change interval, which is quite staggering to me. No matter how many times the Jeep may be changed, the oil is pitch black seconds after being poured in.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I don't think Mobil still makes the 229.51 5w40 esp. They do make Delvac1 5w40, but I doubt it's 229.51 rated. The 507 spec oils are quite thick compared to most 30 weight oils.
 
Last edited:

Riflesmith

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 1999
Location
Lovell, WY
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 6M, 2015 Golf TDI 6A
I'm on my second EA288, first a Passat, now a Golf. 5W30 CK4 Signature Series Amsoil in both. No issues over many miles and it is delivered to my door. Hassle free.
 

donDavide

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Location
Severna Park, Maryland USA
TDI
2003 Jetta; 2015 Jetta S
Thanks IBW.

I stand corrected, it's the TopTec 4200 Longlife III that I meant to say.

In stock at my local NAPA, along with other flavors that also meet my Bluetec's 229.51 or 229.52 spec.

Pricey though, which is why I prefer idparts ;)

Edit: in looking at their options, I also found Valvoline SynPower MST 5w30 which meets the 229.51 spec for Bluetecs. It's $5.39/qt! Cheap oil changes galore.
Wally World has an MB229.52, Valvoline, also meets 505.01 for PD and AlH, 5w40, , They said (Valvoline) has a 5W30 that is 507.00, buy back to 5w 40, under $7qt, sometimes NAPA has for less than $6, i use in my Jeep CRD.
 

donDavide

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Location
Severna Park, Maryland USA
TDI
2003 Jetta; 2015 Jetta S
I don't think Mobil still makes the 229.51 5w40 esp. They do make Delvac1 5w40, but I doubt it's 229.51 rated. The 507 spec oils are quite thick compared to most 30 weight oils.
M1 ESP FORMULA M 5w40 is long gone, at least 3 years now,, that's why I went to Valvoline. Pentosynth HP2 lists same specs
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)

vwexpress

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Location
Davenport FL
TDI
2015 Golf Sport Wagon
It's really not that confusing: Pick one of these: https://www.idparts.com/20l-tdi-oil-change-kit-cvcacrua-p-4752.html

You probably didn't see the 507.00 spec when you searched for Mobil 1 because Mobil calls a lot of their oils Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 ESP has the VW certification. I'm not aware of any other US-based refiner that has a 507.00 oil.

As far as I know major retailers (Walmart, Autozone, Advance, etc.) do not carry 507.00 oils. Of course you can get Castrol at the dealer, but pricing is hit or miss. Some dealer prices are great, others not so much.

Thanks for your link, bought an oil change kit, and some springs from your cool site. I need to keep off it, this is an economy travel work truck for me, don't need to mod it up, only to haul tools, lots of tools.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Welcome and thanks for the order! I know what you mean: it's easy to keep "improving" our TDIs.
 

vwexpress

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Location
Davenport FL
TDI
2015 Golf Sport Wagon
Welcome and thanks for the order! I know what you mean: it's easy to keep "improving" our TDIs.

Orders have arrived, well packed, perfect shipping. Thank you.
Are these taller springs rated to carry any more weight, or are they just taller? I'm hoping the roughly 900 lbs of tools I'm going to load up will squish them down to about stock height. Thanks for any information you can give me.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Well, 900 lbs. is, I think, well over the total load capacity of your car. I think it's about half that. They will carry more weight, but they have limits.
 

vwexpress

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Location
Davenport FL
TDI
2015 Golf Sport Wagon
I thought I read, wrong apparently, that it could hold 1,200 pounds above curb weight in the manual.
Time to slim down the tools.
Thanks for the info, and the parts.
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
900 lbs in tools?

What are you moving, an entire machine shop?
The guys at IDparts have seen what I travel with, and that's a healthy collection of tools to work on the CRDs... And that is only about 150-200 lbs of gear. You sure about that number?
 

vwexpress

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Location
Davenport FL
TDI
2015 Golf Sport Wagon
Well, I'm a plumber. I've got way more then 900lbs of tools in the truck, obviously, I can't put that much into the back of this Sportwagen. I re- read the manual last night, I have no idea where I saw that number, probably didn't.I've got about half of what I want in there right now, sags a little, maybe 300 lbs of tools now.....
Truly, thanks for the replys, I need all the help I can get.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Ah, I was thinking blacksmith. Gotta have the good anvil and the backup anvil just in case. :D
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
I must not know much about what a plumber does... I can't fathom more than a few hundred pounds of gear for all the plumbing work I have ever done on my own. I'm impressed that the work you do needs that kind of support, that's amazing.
 

vwexpress

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Location
Davenport FL
TDI
2015 Golf Sport Wagon
Been doing the plumbing thing for like 23 years, so I have gathered quite the amount of tools. But, it's tools that make my job easier, sooo.... From cast iron to cooper, cpvc to pvc, have to do it all. From underground to top out, lots of stuff to do.

But, lets talk weight, the cars ability to carry weight. There are 4 seats, VW themselves say 168 lbs per person, so right there is almost 680 lbs, in people alone in the given seats. We know the Germans won't have people and no luggage, there has to be more payload then just people hauling. Regardless, the new springs go in tomorrow, I'll be looking at brakes, pads and rotors, next. Window tint is done, drained a little oil out to make the oil level light go off, love the info in here, thanks one and all, thank you.
 
Last edited:

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
I've always heard it as the calculation is 200 lbs times the number of seats and an additional 200 for the cargo those people would carry. So that would be a total of 1200 lbs interior...

BUT all you really need is the curb weight of the vehicle and the GVWR. The GAWR for the rear says how much the back should be carrying since you won't be able to evenly spread the load around the interior. On a recent trip I ran across scales just for fun (the scales were on but the checkpoint was closed) and the JSW scaled right at 4000 lbs.

Now I had about 275 lbs outside on a tray - that itself weighs about 80 lbs - so call that 360 lbs. Plus my fat arse at 200, so there's 560 lbs in the car right away. The rest of the interior had some tools and other detritus for probably another 150 lbs, so close to 700 lbs of not-car being carried. I don't know the curb weight on the 2014 JSW, but that can be looked up, but I'm thinking it is somewhere around 3300 which would work with the math. Now just look at the sticker on the door pillar, what's the GVWR? (I'll go look at mine later after I'm done eating)
 

vwexpress

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Location
Davenport FL
TDI
2015 Golf Sport Wagon
Success, taller springs in, more tools added, my guess is about 700 lbs of tools in the vehicle. It sits just a touch higher in the rear, which looks perfect, the weight definitely has an effect on acceleration, braking, and handling. Will be looking into better braking and shocks now.
Wish I could post pics, have the windows tinted, new ties, looks great.

Thank you @Geordi for your reply, that's exactly what I was thinking for the payload, just need to weigh it, look up curb weight, see how far over I am.....
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
My brother is a plumber, and his company reluctantly decided to replace most of their E250 Ford vans a few years ago to save on fuel costs. They switched to Transit Connects, and they work out fine for the most part. The only time they may need something bigger (and they do still have an E van in the fleet) is to move a large component like a bigger water heater or some monster cast iron bath tub, since the little vans are generally full of tools and supplies.

And they are pretty full. It is not so much the tools (although there is plenty of that) as it is all the various fittings and such they require be on hand. Much of it is metal. They do a lot of rehab work in older houses, too, so they are constantly moving a lot of heavy things back to the recycler... cast iron main stacks for example (some of these can weigh several hundred pounds, they get cut up into manageable pieces, but their net weight is still the same), lots of toilets and old bath tubs and one-piece sinks... the one sink he had was easily 500 pounds by itself. A porcelain coated cast iron affair from the '40s... it has already outlasted anything you could buy today, and will probably still outlast it... 100 years from now it'll still be able to do its job, LOL.

So yeah, plumbers move some heavy stuff. Sucks we cannot get the diesel version of these little vans, because the leftover gasser Focus engines and slushboxes they use are pretty hard hit with all the weight, despite the fact that the van itself doesn't seem to mind.
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
The Transit Connect is available with a diesel and a 9-speed (DSG I think) transmission starting with the 2019 model year, so they have been available for about a year now. Your brother's company likely will not want to switch until their current fleet is closer to the end of life... But the diesel TC is a capable little truck with over 2000 lbs carrying capacity and another 2k towing.

I was thinking about that if I needed anything a little bigger than the JSW, but there's no way I'd be able to get it for the price I got the JSW at. Maybe in another few years, I'll pick one up on the used market.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Exactly. We never got them. We only got the non turbo gas engine and the Ecoboost. Although the previous generation to which I was talking about earlier was just one engine the 2.0L non turbo gas engine bolted to a 4sp slushbox. The leftover Focus powertrain.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Come on guys stop teasing with another 'this vehicle is available with a diesel engine'!

Another disappointment with Ford pulling out the Transit Connect diesel :(

I wonder if in a few years one will be able to transplant the actual Ford diesel 1.5L in a gasser one.
 

JesseTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Location
Missouri
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, Premium package
The full size Transit is available with a diesel and they are being made (I would know because I build them) even a 1 ton transit gets better gas mileage than a E series van did.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The full size Transit is available with a diesel and they are being made (I would know because I build them) even a 1 ton transit gets better gas mileage than a E series van did.

Yeah, and if you guys could put a dab of anti-seize instead of thread locker on all the bolts that hold that subframe/control arms and crossbrace in we wouldn't have to torch and cut holes in the unibody and saw the control arms to pieces to get them apart, since you have to take all that stuff apart to do just about ANYTHING to them (transmission replacement, transmission SERVICE... yes, you cannot even remove the pan without removing that stupid subframe... catalysts, DPFs, etc.). We had to install a new rack in the shop JUST because we ALWAYS have one of these stupid things in pieces. The Transits are time sponges but the fleets realize this now and they make us a TON of money.





They EAT rear brakes, too, like a fat guy through donuts, and that stupid drive shaft coupler comes apart more often than an air filter needs to be replaced, LOL.

But the main thing is those stupid bolts. And it isn't like ANY of these are very old. Several of our fleets (who have had E-vans for literally decades) are now switching to Chevrolet vans, because the Transits have proven to be just too darn fragile and too labor intensive to keep on the road long term. Sad, because they sure drive much better than those ancient full frame dinosaurs, and boy I never thought I'd say this but the E-vans are actually easier to work on. You can have the 4R70 transmission replaced in a couple hours. The Transit's transmission can take several days. :rolleyes:
 
Top