Today's Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

[fitzski]

Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

Anybody see this article in the City section of today's Citizen?

Not sure what to make of it... Myself, I wouldn't say I've gotten "as advertised" mileage, but I haven't driven in "fine print" conditions much, either. I've no doubt that on the 401 at ~105, I'd get amazing mileage. The 1.5 hour slog in with this mornings snow and cold temperatures (and winter diesel) kinda throws mileage potential like that out the window, however.

I'm inclined to think that some people just need to complain - we've evolved into a "Me" society, and this is one of many examples. I find it hard to believe that these people were "guaranteed" a mileage, especially without any conditions attached.

[Edit]
Sorry - just realized you can't read the whole story online. Basically a couple who bought a 2004 GLS TDI from Bytek are not happy, after 8000km, with the mileage they were "promised" by the dealer and VW. They have also had the car in for a number of warranty items (including a CEL when they picked up the car - DOH!).

The only solution they will be happy with is a new car, and they figure Bytek should basically just swap them a new car for no additional cost. According to Bytek, they've been trying to come to an agreement, but the couple has been uncooperative and unyielding.

 

[TDIMeister]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

The Transport Canada highway fuel economy figure for an `05 Golf/Jetta TDI manual of 4.6L/100km is a real stretch. Basically, you'd have to drive like Rammstein (i.e. ~90km/h) on the highway to get those kind of numbers...

So many seasonal and habitual factors on the part of the drivers also have such a great effect on the fuel economy that the car achieves, as do traffic conditions and the length of individual trips. IIRC, my car is also rated at 4.6L/100km highway by Transport Canada. I get more like 5.8 - 6.2L/100km. So I should demand another car or sue.

If, and I say a BIG IF, this couple's fuel economy is DRASTICALLY lower, then maybe there's a justified complaint. But in the absence of knowing what their circumstances and driving mix is, etc., it's impossible to diagnose if there is indeed a problem. -=Some=- people need to get a life and read the fine print and learn the concept of "your mileage may vary."

 

[fitzski]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

Yeah, the OEE "EnerGuide" Fuel Consumption Ratings can definitely be misleading. However, since all vehicles are tested equally, they do provide a baseline for comparison, and at least an approximation of what you could expect under your own ideal conditions. But all the caveats, asterisks, and fine print still apply.

Highway fuel consumption ratings are based on a 12-minute simulated highway course of 16 km with no stops. The top speed during the test is 96.5 km/h, and the average speed of the test is 77 km/h, reflecting an urban-highway driving environment.

That's no "urban-highway driving environment" that I'm familiar with!!!

 

[new_vr]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I have to agree with TDIMeister...while it is possible to get really good mileage, you won't be doing that one the highway at 120 km/h...and on winter diesel? forget it!
Still it would be the same for any car, the faster you go, the lower your mileage is, so it's not like this is just a diesel issue

 

[Rammstein]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I didn't read the article yet, but I get lower than the rating for Transport Canada.

For the 1996 Passat TDI it was 4.8 highway and 6.2 city.

Worst so far 5.53 and best 4.147.

Average 4.8.

Not bad, but the car can do better.

From mid november to the beginning of june I can't get below 5 liters per 100.

Winter diesel and cold (cold starts) will do that.

Normal.

I drive for economy because I take the time to go where ever I wanna go.

I take my time.

I see y'all in a hurry to get there like it would be a race...

I always stay in the right lane and try to be courteous (unless somebody tailgates me, then he/she gets sooted!

) and for most parts it works.

Trying it is adopting it.

 

[Blades]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

Not only that, the energuide is rated for 90km/h, not 100-120 like everyone drives.

I'm one of those people who can get the maximum out of a car but it's all in the driving habits. (I can get 7.5L/100km out of a Crapalier if I drive 130km/h non stop on the highway, but I only manage 14-17L/100km in city and 100km/h highway driving)

The only car I can do the rated mileage is a BMW 323i, they're rated at 120km/h (highway driving) in the dealer guide. 6.9L/100km @ 120km/h and when you get the hang of it, she'll do just that. otherwise, hello 10-12L/100km

 

[microwave]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I am more than happy with my fuel economy...it out performs any other car I have owned. The worst was a Nissan Altima.

What really chaps me is the 30 cent per liter jump in the price of diesel in the last 3 years. When I bought my TDI it was 49 c/L, lat week I paid 79 c/L. Sometimes I have seen diesel 10 cents higher than gas. Don't get me started...

 

[valleygolf]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

The story from the owners is not that far off. I had a similar condition and prodded and probe Bytek for a solution to the low mileage. The madding part of my experience was that VW Canada has no real way of measuring the fuel flow rate to the injectors. Vag-Com or any test equipment could not define the rate. In my case Bytek performed the following test.

1. They drained all the tank of all fuel.
2. Bytek then put 3 litres of fuel in the tank.
3. Bytek foreman went for a drive on the 417 East to Casselman to run out of fuel.
4. At about Casselman he turned back for the stealership
5. Back at the shop they let it run for a while longer.

Service manager called me to let me know that my Golf A/T 03 ran for 97 km on 3 litres of diesel, which is 92 mpg. The insulting tone of this was that the service manager put on the work order that the Golf was receiving the highest mileage ever recorded by VW Canada. When I spoke to VW Canada they recalled the test and said the same thing that this was the same as the Lupo and should not complain and hung up.

Yes there are diff conditions but there are a lot of owners complaining all over North America about the new “PD”. I think VW has a real problem with this engine and I know from some one in Germany that 07 will bring a redesigned the engine; Honda is planning to introduce a diesel in or around 07/08. The Accord Diesel or Civic 1.7 CTDi presently in the UK, which will hurt VW Canada and VWoA

The following quote is from the Gov Testing labs,

"The final averaged fuel economy values are then adjusted to account for the difference between controlled test conditions and real-world driving conditions. The city estimate is lowered by 10% and the highway estimate by 15%."

 

[GuyGuy]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

They should just shut the [censored] up and enjoy the fact that there getting twice the mileage of just about everything else out there.

 

[TDIMeister]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

The only repeatable, consistent method of determining fuel consumption on a TDI that anyone can do (rather than draining the tank and filling a given amount and running it dry) is to always fill-up to the very top every time and dividing out the number of litres filled by the distance travelled since the last fill.

That's why I always insist on filling my own car, or at least finishing the top-off if the attendent is too busy, lazy or clueless to do it (what's with this habit of rounding to the nearest dollar even though I'm paying with a credit card??

)

I realise busy periods at the pump, uncooperative attendents and other circumstances may preclude doing that all the time, but if you put an effort into it, you can do it at least frequently enough to get a snapshot of your car's fuel consumption. Unfortunately in North America, driving a car is regarded as a right and fuel a commodity cheaper than bottled water, so most people don't give it much more thought unless it really hurts them in their wallets.

 

[FergusTDI]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I for one, am very happy with my fuel economy on my new '05 Jetta Wagon, I get 3 times better milege then my 99 Pathfinder. If you see someone doing somersaults (sp?) at the gas station, that's me, come on over and say hi

 

[Rammstein]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I would like to add that very few people on the road barely know how to drive, so driving for economy is something impossible...

 

[Smog]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

Service manager called me to let me know that my Golf A/T 03 ran for 97 km on 3 litres of diesel, which is 92 mpg.

add at LEAST 1.5 litre in the fuel pump/fuel lines/fuel filter
so it made 4.5L/100km on highway

 

[Wingnut]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I try to fill up as close to 1000km as possible. Then I just need to move the decimel over 2 spots. So if I go 1000km and need 50 liters to fill the tank, I got 5l/100km. If it only took 45 liters on that fill, heck, I had a good week with no traffic and got 4.5L/100k

.

What these people need to realize is that a diesel engine with synthetic oil from the factory is going to take more that 8000km to break in, the mileage will get better. And unless they drive the car at 90km/hour all the time, they are not going to be able to match any of the tests that TC does. But many people have recorded better mileag than the TC results. I assume because TC used a new car that was not broken in yet? I know that with my heavily modified car, I have 50% more power that when it was stock and BETTER fuel economy now than when I bought the car used with 90k on it 2 1/2 years ago !!! And I don't drive like Ramstein

 

[Rammstein]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I knew my name was to be typed before the end of the thread.

Rammstein with 2 "m's" please, it's my middle name.

 

[fitzski]

Re: Today\'s Citizen: Jetta Fuel Economy In Doubt

I agree - there are so many variables involved in fuel economy, especially in our climate, that it can be exceedingly difficult to manage expectations. It took me 1.5 hours to do my 35km commute in yesterday's snow... <sigh> on winter diesel, too. So gee, I wonder if I'll get poor mileage on this tank...

I'd like to see a follow up on this story though; I haven't come across an update in the paper (yet).