To build or not to build? Parts in hand

dhangejr

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Mar 1, 2017
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PNW is my home
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mk4 Jetta
So, got a mystery wagon last year.
it is a 04 bee 5 speed. There is a years worth of crap I’m trying explain in short order. I normally aim for brevity, but the timeline is long and a bit fuzzy.

It always had Smokey cold status snd gave 32mpg doing city deliveries. My alh got 35 in similar conditions so II figured it was just the bew showing the inferior gas mileage that I read about.

I’ve only got 13k on this car. It’s been broken more than not during the 14 months I’ve owned it.

Not long after I got the car the clutch went out. Fixed that and then The diff blew.
Somewhere in there I did the the EGR delete but got not check engine light. I also replaced the g28 sensor because VCDS told me to, code cleared. Smoke on cold starts not. I was beyond happy when I finally get a LSD and remmman trans after being stuck close to home all summer.

Next, sti chasing the Smokey cold start I called Armstrong Volkswagen because the Carfax listed the car is having been serviced in their department.

So, I was told on the phone that a customer brought the car in stating “the car stumbled and died while driving.”
The service department advisors, ” the timing belt snd camshaft had failed. The suggestion was to replace those and any related complements”

Shocked, I immediately opened up the rocker cover.


Oddly there is an L in red on the 3rd injector rocker arm. Weird if you look closely you can see a red dot on the lash adjustment too. someone made a mistake here

The intake manifold has been cleaned and marked in red. The timing was done but the water pump is weeping. (Later on I removed it and it looks to be the original water pump with 188,000 miles )
Oh yeah, the same red mark: are on the cam and crank pulleys. I did verify with the timing tools it was very close. VCDS showed 0 on the KW and hardly changed so I question how close. Oh well moving on.

So once I get the rocker arms off, the head looks like it’s been removed because the head studs have the same color marks that the cam snd cranks sprockets had. I observed this on every bolt facing the same direction too. Sure could have been a plus 90 mark. Doubt it.

So, Someone who hacked the timing belt job w/o tools did the head bolts this half hack way too. My This is actually possibly an acceptable method for the most part, so maybe they did the head gasket too, cuz if they did not it would be leaking everywhere.

So anyway, found pump 3 (remember the red L?) Had a broken lash plunger


View media item 144874


Next am I really just loosing my mind when I removed the camshaft seen this.




I had to wipe that one off a dozen times to make sure I was seeing correctly. Oh yeah I was. Now I’m really mystified. That’s one strange place to be mismatched. The cam looks to have been replaced I think it has a febi emblem engraved. No Audi or VW.

Yes, seven are the nitrate INA lifters. They even say INA nest to the part number on the back.

Now I’m contemplating canceling the build. Part of me was thinking about putting the old cam and lifters back in.

would you trust the head gasket to take 28-30 psi for longevity?

I’ve never done a HG looks pretty easy form here but I don’t wanna pay s machinist I wanna drive my car! I just want my car so my dog snd I can go to the mountains and drive to see my aging dad Who lives alone 900 miles from here in BFE Idaho. I thought I wanted better passing power doing it. But maybe not.

So, Yeha Buying all the upgrade parts was a bit impulsive for me but I had a stage 2 cam upgrade offer just before Christmas snd got bit by the upgrade bug. Not my first time. I’ve swapped turbos snd manifolds and exhaust on my old alh too Easy street , fun car, but I wanted this one to be way more fun. So Was aiming at 180 hoping to land north of 200. Reliable…

so, when I have to do the HG what else can I do to enhance the longevity without a full rebuild. I have already wasted too much money on this car. The quicker I can drive it reilably. The quicker I can get back to making money. I’d like to get to my z3 ‘s suspension sometime this winter too.

What I know if I remove the head , replace gasket with slightly thicker one to lower compression, replace valves (only if bent ?) always do valve guides snd seals, have the head ported snd a 3 angle valve job.
Random question? Will upgraded springs wear the camshaft faster?

I have
Remanded pd150 pumps
17/26 x man turbo
Pd150 TIP, manifold snd race pipe.
Euro spec cam
3 bar map (I want a 4)

I need
2.5” DP
Tune (I wish on s dyno)
Better interCooler setup
catch can

Contemplating
*ARL head bolts vs arp
*FMIC vs upgraded SMIC with 12v fan.
*3 bar vs 4 bar map for a 30PSI tune.
*Exhaust setup resonator, small 40 series, then a random cheap 1.8t can I can find used locally.
 
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DivineChaos

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Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
Well it's kind of hard to find one of these engines that somebody has not been into. As long as the height on the lifters are the same I don't see why there should be an issue with one being different. I'm sure the cam had gone bad so it was replaced along with the lifter.
 

dhangejr

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Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Location
PNW is my home
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mk4 Jetta
MY BAD! I edited the post.
Im not sure what happened, Ive felt a little off lately, but thats was really bad, again my apologies.
 
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Tdijarhead

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Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I have to agree with mongler. It’s hard to follow what you’re trying to convey to us. You’re not texting your best friend who can understand your incomplete thoughts and is able to stay with you as you jump around with partial thoughts and questions.

Check your spelling and pronunciation and write as if you were writing to a 10 year old, that’s all most of us comprehend anyway, well at least that’s my limit.

Try and compose complete thoughts and questions and if you have more than one question or thought move to another sentence or paragraph.

I try and read my posts two or three times before I hit the post button and sometimes I still post things I don’t understand after reading and have to go back and fix.
 

DivineChaos

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
Injector number 3 is damaged
I'm not even sure how that happens. Dropped maybe?
Man everyone is Grammer police in here. We've had some really, really Bad ones before. One guy was talking like a thug and was difficult to read let alone understand. I end up editing my posts. We're not in your mind. We're not your best bud, family or partner. Complete sentences please.
I sorta follower because ADHD, but I'm an outlier.

Do you have a scope? Put an eye on the cylinders. I'd also say compression test. But you have the cam off already.. what's the cost of a headgasket and headbolts for piece-of-mind? Your already this far into it. What's a little further?
 
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dhangejr

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Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Location
PNW is my home
TDI
mk4 Jetta
I think the lash was set incorrectly, that or when they tried to set it they did 180 to the right instead of left?

I have been trying to get a compression tester for a while but as the cam problem came to light i figured it must be good, It had lots of power. I assumed the smokey starts was from the bad cam, but i bet its from incorrectly set lash. Heck, I bet the bad cam is form the incorrectly set lash too...

Finally, My post was embarrassingly difficult to read.
Thanks you guys for seeing though that!

I have to apologize to anyone who seen that mess!
 

clannnabanna

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2011
Location
N.Ireland
TDI
Golf 1.9tdi (mark 5)
I have to agree with mongler. It’s hard to follow what you’re trying to convey to us. You’re not texting your best friend who can understand your incomplete thoughts and is able to stay with you as you jump around with partial thoughts and questions.

Check your spelling and pronunciation and write as if you were writing to a 10 year old, that’s all most of us comprehend anyway, well at least that’s my limit.

Try and compose complete thoughts and questions and if you have more than one question or thought move to another sentence or paragraph.

I try and read my posts two or three times before I hit the post button and sometimes I still post things I don’t understand after reading and have to go back and fix.
Lol this is a tough room!
Learning English 101
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
inally, My post was embarrassingly difficult to read.
Thanks you guys for seeing though that!

I have to apologize to anyone who seen that mess
No worries, fixing it paid off, i have to be careful lest I do the same thing.

A mark like you show on the cam cap can be a salvage yard mark indicating used parts or perhaps the person doing the work on the cam was using marks to help him remember what he had already done. I lost track of where I was while going through the tightening sequence on the head bolts one time, I had to stop and think where I was and what step I was on. Interruptions can be a pain.

I’ve read harbor freight has a cheap compression tester, or you can rent/borrow one from autozone , O’Reilly’s or someplace like that. I think I’d rent/borrow before I went the harbor freight route for something like this. A cheap gauge might give inaccurate results.

.
 

dhangejr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Location
PNW is my home
TDI
mk4 Jetta
HAHA thing is, umm well iz umz dumbz edumicatedz personz knowz too littlz and haz zero life experience...sarcasm....all who wander are not lost

Really, when writing professionally, the writing process is NEVER done. A good writing takes a lot of editing. Then what you do is more editing and even more editing. Just when you think its done, you go back and edit some more. This is how books, movies, and songs are written. Hell, the Bentley Manual has a tone of errors! Im sure it was edited a dozen^2 times too!
The old saying it takes a village comes to mind...bla bla bla...
I digressI...

I try to keep it more casual than that in my daily life. Plus who has time to edit a post 10 times?
That said, my OP was unbelievable. Again, if i did not know better id say my account was hacked! Absoulty Unspeakable!




To Clannabanna's point Learning english is hard for an American, for we have many vernacular's. Pick your poison.

I tried learning Spanish in collage, from one woman form spain and one from mexico. A very different way of using the same language!
soy no recordo mucho, un poco. Danta esta bano comida ect....Neccicito practice, es Muy importianta! soy es inteliganta. con no can spell in spanish or english! GUESS WHAT? Professores I had at the UW had the same problem. No human is perfect. Since im on a tangent don't be stupid lol ....https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/306868/
I would add facebook to that list ^

P.S.
As for any questions Im just gonna put my "stage 2" cam in and get the car back on the road. I need OUT of this CITY!
Maybe ill build it maybe I won't. time will tell.
 

Nero Morg

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Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
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2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Only time I've seen failures like this wasn't due to incorrect lash, but debris in between the rocker and the push rod of the injector. Small dent will cause it to slowly fracture. Seen a handful on old 15 liters.
 

dhangejr

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Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Location
PNW is my home
TDI
mk4 Jetta
Only time I've seen failures like this wasn't due to incorrect lash, but debris in between the rocker and the push rod of the injector. Small dent will cause it to slowly fracture. Seen a handful on old 15 liters.
My theory is the lash was not backed off the appropriate 180 degrees that is commonly used, although my Bentley says 225 degrees.

Furthermore, I was watching a subtitled YouTube video and he said to loosen the lash before installing the rocker arm. That does not seem like common practice.

However, I think it is correct because on page 23-36 of my service manual it says "loosen the lock nut adjustment screw" before it instructs you to "remove the rocker arm securing bolts"

I admit this section is specifically about removing the injectors and while removing the cam is not exactly "work that requires the pump injector to be adjusted" it seem like good practice to loosen them and inspect if it can catch the failure I nearly had. Its no big deal to set the lash after.
 
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dhangejr

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PNW is my home
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mk4 Jetta
maybe this will help someone in the future. Here you will see what one new injector ball pin looks like compared to an several old ones.

NEW injector ball pin installed. From what I can tell they are only available as a part of the PD injector seal kit, part number 038198051C only 12$ at FPC euro! too bad my order from them is on the way or id grab 3 more and wait. I may call the dealer tomorrow and get a price quote.



OLD injector ball pin (these are the best photos I could get with my phone)

View media item 144900

View media item 144902

note the dishing marks in the old ones, and they look as if they have been struck with a center punch. This is a sign of wear. One looks like its gonna break any minute lol. I will be loosening the adjustment screws before installation.

In the prior post I show where the Bentley manual says "If wear is evident the ball pin and adjustment screw must be replaced."
Given the failure of my number 3 injector ball pin, I believe the images I have shown are good examples of injector ball pins that should be replaced.

have been told the ball pin can't be gotten by itself, that the ball pin for the PD injectors only comes with the seal kit. I am going to contact DBW and see if the injector ball pin can be had separately in his world.

It seems rare, but I am not the only one.
 
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dhangejr

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mk4 Jetta
again at this point im just hoping someone get some help form this some day.

the rocker arm securing bolts look good. No signs of damage.
oddly #4 is clearly pushed deeper than the rest.

View media item 144904
View media item 144905
here one is removed, they all look the same.
Im gonna call these good, however, they replaceable part WHT000530
View media item 144907
View media item 144908

I also took the time to reinsert one of the oil gallery plugs that almost fell out lucky catch.
I Should have snapped a photo :)
Then I deformed the holes so they will not come out, till they disintegrate anyway.
 
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adamss24

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Nov 2, 2005
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Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
I have seen broken lifter at cam install when technician/mechanic doesn’t back up the pistons and forces the cam caps to compress the lifters. The valve hits the piston and the lifter breaks. I also seen a broken tandem pump once…same issue !
 

dhangejr

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PNW is my home
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mk4 Jetta
I’m installing my cam and lifters at top dead center , tandem pump is removed. I don’t think there’s anything to worry about as long as you know how to get the cam and crank in time.

Also, I found a better deal on a set of 4 injector seals , so I’m gonna be waiting another week to finish , but I don’t wanna chance having to do the work again as I may just sell my upgrade parts.
 

dhangejr

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Nope, i said to hell with it cuz if I pull the head I’m gonna want have head work done snd I’m not ready to shell out that money too.
 

dhangejr

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mk4 Jetta
I have seen broken lifter at cam install when technician/mechanic doesn’t back up the pistons and forces the cam caps to compress the lifters. The valve hits the piston and the lifter breaks. I also seen a broken tandem pump once…same issue !
I missed this response. I don’t quite follow what you mean by does it back up the Pistons
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Basically you turn the crank anti clockwise to get the pistons off tdc thus the valves dont hit the pistons till you fasten the camshaft down. You are fighting valve spring resistance so the cam naturally tends to twist off tdc ! Its in this instance the lifter can break...Also seen one of the cheap cast iron camshafts break due to the same issue...
 

dhangejr

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mk4 Jetta
II read it too but IIRC that is for the ‘advanced method’ without removing the tandem pump

The service manual makes no mention of the 90degree anti clockwise turn.

I completed the install I rotated the engine probably a dozen times since then so I think all is well. I’m not a huge guy but was able to fairly easily rotate the engine. Of course the compression stroke took a bit more than the rest of it.

I have to swap my lift pump so I can prime the tandem pump, the. I’m about to fire up the new cam. run the break in, swap oil, snd hopefully go for a drive tonight!

Still nervous lol I know my work is right,
but maybe I bent valve rotating the engine.
I’d never even know would I?
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
If the engine turned then you’re ok…kinda hard to damage valves by turning engine by hand.
 

dhangejr

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mk4 Jetta
Thanks. I forgot about this thread. This car is ****ing cursed! haha
SO i finished the timing belt and camshaft today. Cuz of all the motivation I got from this thread hereI decided to make a shotty DIY of the process cuz :geek:

So, I finally did I did the camshaft break in today. Once I got it primed the things was running great! who whoooo victory...or so I thought.

Then the curse returns about 5 minutes into the cam break in suddenly the coolant light came on. I expected to need to add coolant so I did and it was good.

THEN **** HAPPENED once again.
It was about 10 minutes into break in started noticing some smoke from under the hood. I shut it off and got out. I seen some oil spray cuz I had left the rocker cap fitted with only 4 bolts DUMB ASS!

OK well ill just finish up the break in im almost there! The engine started sounding lumpy and I was thinking that cam stage 2 cam sounds lumpy.
Then I started hearing lifter tap and there was some more smoke again.
I stopped raving the engine. I was debating to stop the break in process, and then the low oil pressure light came on!

I thought for a quick moment, what is that light, then I got out of the car again and seen probably 3 quarts of the 4.5 I added was on the ground! SHUT IT DOWN then I said to myself that was the ****ing oil pressure light!

I got my ass kicked tonight cleaning this mess up.
 
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adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Sorry for you mate however you should not touch any coolant hoses when doing a camshaft swap and to be honest i am curious as where the oil was leaking from...damaged headgasket perhaps ?
 

Nero Morg

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2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
I see the traditional cardboard in the lower valence there.... Also you should triple check all your torques if you missed some cam bolts... Just saying. I get it, getting excited on finishing a project, but you're gonna miss and mess something else up.
 

dhangejr

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PNW is my home
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mk4 Jetta
I put a TQ wrench on the tsndum pump again and the oil filter housing. Then i cleaned up the mess. dumped oil in with UV DYE. So far so good….

believe it or not I thinkit came from the rocker cover …I did get excited / lazy and decided I could just use 4 of the bolts partially screeed done for the cam break in…I went SO slow ever when else . luckily the car seems to be ok. I’m getting no boost tho haha…I found the issue quickly tho, as there was also no breaks..



the break booster is a common issue snd I remembered thinking I broken it during pert of the huge list of maintenanceI’ve just finished.
this csr shoold be very reliable soon!


Since I had done the Egr delete when I for the car ; it was time to clean that up.


it took me a while to route everything so it won’t rub, but I’m nearly positive that when I wake up I’ll have boost and breaks and I can get back to looking for the oil leak…hopefully Today’s trend continues tomorrow and I don’t find anything with a UV dye
 

Nero Morg

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OR
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2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Glad it was a simple fix, and I love the backyard repair for the brake booster line.
 

ghohouston

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Lewisville, Texas
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2001 Jetta Sedan TDI 5 Speed
I feel like you could run the engine with the valve cover removed for 30 minutes and not get nearly that much oil on the ground.
 
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