Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

cp

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2006 TDI Beetle
Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Believe it or not, I would prefer to find some water in the filter. At least then you'd know it was working.

That there is water in fuel, there is no doubt; it can't be kept out. That's the whole purpose of water separators--to filter out the water that is inevitably in fuel. It can't do that if you're running an emulsifying agent in the fuel.
 

fallingwindows

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Installing a pre-luber has got to be one of the most important steps for getting the most miles out of your engine...80% of engine wear, gone! And you can get one with a timer to automatically cool your turbo.

I've never had one 'cuz I have no interest in driving a car for 20 years. I love my TDI, but the sex and safety of newer technology, plus my fickle human nature will have me swapping cars long before I can wear one out!

next most important: frequent and proper oil changes, changing other fluids and filters as needed, keeping salt away and taking care of the body. Much easier to prevent rust than fix it after it's started...
 

MileageDude

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

original post by: cp
Believe it or not, I would prefer to find some water in the filter. At least then you'd know it was working.
Redline diesel fuel system just before oil changes.

No other explanation.


M.D.
 

fallingwindows

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2013 Sportwagen
Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

just do a web search for pre-luber. You can make your own, or buy one. They're generally not made for individual vehicles, it's a one size fits all device (at least for personal sized vehicles)

here's a build your own link
 

POWERSTROKE

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

I cannot picture having a car for 500k.
The motor will probably still run if maintained, but the rest of the car will be a garbage heap. If you want to put tons of money for little plastic parts etc, I am sure it can be done. No offense, but I work so I can get a new car every once in a while.
 

cp

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

original post by: cp
Believe it or not, I would prefer to find some water in the filter. At least then you'd know it was working.
Redline diesel fuel system just before oil changes.



No other explanation.


M.D.
Went right over my head. Sorry.

The motor will probably still run if maintained, but the rest of the car will be a garbage heap.
I have a friend who has a 1988 Mazda B2200 with ~300K on it. It's actually still quite nice, but then, he fixed things as they break. I will do that up to a point, but something will usually break and cause me to give up caring about a vehicle and from that point on, it's a beater. Nothing gets fixed from then on; only the barest of necessary repairs for it to continue under its own power.
 

cp

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

IMHO, dispersing water is the LAST thing you'd want to do. The whole idea of a water separator is that it stop the water there, so that water goes no further into the fuel system. An emulsifier guarantees that the design intent of that system is defeated.
 

ruking

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Griffen_01

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Sep 7, 2004
Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Well now you have me worried , i just bought a 2004 jetta tdi and what I am hearing is if I dont't have a 30 mile commute I should not have one of these cars.The reason for the purchase was for my wife to drive to work which is not very far at all ,but also that we may take some nice driving holidays as I am not a flier. Please do not tell me that this not the car for me as it is a pure pleasure to drive. If someone could give me some tips on how to keep this car running great it would be much appreciated . By the way the dealer said there would be no differance between this and a gas machine.
 

TornadoRed

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Well now you have me worried , i just bought a 2004 jetta tdi and what I am hearing is if I dont't have a 30 mile commute I should not have one of these cars.The reason for the purchase was for my wife to drive to work which is not very far at all ,but also that we may take some nice driving holidays as I am not a flier. Please do not tell me that this not the car for me as it is a pure pleasure to drive.
In another thread you said you live near Moose Jaw, Saskachewan. (update your profile)

Diesel engines, and TDIs in particular, take longer to warm up than gassers. Until they reach the normal operating temperature, they use more fuel. In the winter, in Saskachewan, a short commute means that the engine may NEVER reach operating temperature.

TDIs are a real pleasure to drive. But it is my opinion that 1) if you drive a lot of miles, then the decision to buy is a slam-dunk. But 2) if you don't drive much, then you don't save enough on fuel to justify the _possibly_ higher maintenance costs.

I am not saying maintenance costs are necessarily higher for TDIs. Any time you own a car that isn't driven much, the costs are spread out over few miles. But it just seems like TDIs that are driven a lot have fewer problems.
 

MileageDude

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

original post by: cp

IMHO, dispersing water is the LAST thing you'd want to do.
Oh, I see. Okay. I'll take note of that. I will also write Volkswagen who recommends Stanadyne's fuel system cleaners [which are much identicle to that of RedLine] to not recommend it any futher. According to Stanadyne's website:

Diesel Fuel Additives
Stanadyne's expertise in diesel fuel systems
is reflected in the company's line of four
diesel fuel additives, designed to address all
major common diesel fuel related problems such
as cold weather operability, low sulfur lubricity,
hard starting/low power, as well as helping
remove water and prolonging the effective life
of diesel fuel.
It's good to know now the importance of having water in your fuel filtre. I'll have to write my cousin and tell him to start saving his money for a new injector pump and maybe a motor in the near future.

M.D.
 

MileageDude

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Mar 3, 2003
Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

original quote by: Griffen_01
Well now you have me worried ,...
I hope you have heated seats!


Your wife will see that it will take a little longer for a TDi to produce cabin heat on short distance trips and heated seats are a must. IMHO.

Do you have a garage? There are other alternative measures to warmer start-ups here on this board. One of them is a water heater system that plugs into your home in the evening. I am not sure if it functions on the PD though. What ever you do, if you let the motor idle in the mornings which are cold ...the engine will not warm up like a gasser engine. The diesel engines warm up faster when driven under load. So, it's best to start it up and let it idle 30 seconds or so ...then start rolling. That's the best advice to getting heat in the cabin on below 30 degree mornings.

I found that my diesel warms up in 20 degree and below mornings in about 5-10 minutes of operation ...warm as in ...I can feel some heat coming from the air vents ...but in no form is it "real hot." I do not put the heating fan blower on 3-4 either. I leave the setting at 1. That blower tends to blow cold air from the outside through the heater core and can actually cool the heater core defeating the reasoning of building heat.

If you run additives, Power Service [anti-gel] and ocassionally run the car in a good rpm during the week end after short jaunts during a week's driving ...it should be good enough to keep your longevity of that diesel system.

Unless you live in 0-degee days for weeks on end ...I wouldn't worry too much about the short commutes. Your mileage could be hit big time during those short distances in the real cold temps.


M.D.
 

cp

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

You do that.

If pushing water out the injectors is your idea of ridding the system of water, by all means, get to typing. Write letters to VW, Dodge, and Ford telling them how stupid they all are to put water separators on their diesel engines when all they really need to do is send the water through the injection system, the very opposite of what they're doing now.
 

cp

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Diesel engines, and TDIs in particular, take longer to warm up than gassers. Until they reach the normal operating temperature, they use more fuel.
Tornado Red, how does low temp cause increased fuel consumption on a diesel?
 

Pat Dolan

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

cp:

It is not a matter of letting water through, it is a matter of size of the droplet. Aqueous fuels have been an area of intense research for quite a while. Diesels and gassers not only tolerate water, it is very beneficial in the combustion process. Fully dissolved water is a non-issue (there is water in ALL hydrocarbons that have been exposed to the atmosphere) but free water can be. The only thing keeping aqueous fuel out of the mainstream is the cost of emulsifying chemical and storage stability (coalescence and dropout). With today's high pressure injectors, complete emulsification would be critical, but is not difficult - just expensive. So, manufacturers use crude water separating filters to knock out the big gobs instead.

Diesels suffer higher fuel consumption when cold because of cold lubricants in the drivetrain and wheel bearings. They are not as fuel efficient when cold either (too much heat rejected into the cooling system - i.e. they overcool), but nothing like a gasser running rich.

back OT: I have an income too, but why would I want to get rid of a perfectly good car? My oldest TD is now over 600k, and in this climate, the body is getting to the end of its life ('86). Unfortunately, the engine suffered the loss of a pump and head (loose pre-chambers - normal), but until the A4 became available as a wagon, what could be better? I have a dozen other cars and trucks to chose, but the Jetta ends up doing most of the travel (until I finally get around to converting my Audi 5000TD to manual trans).

Pat
 

TornadoRed

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Tornado Red, how does low temp cause increased fuel consumption on a diesel?
From the TDIFAQ:
Consumption normally increases noticeably in cold weather, both due to efficiency loss in cold weather, and due to lower energy content of winterized fuel.
This message has a list of reasons for low cold-weather mileage:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=623282

This thread is among several that discuss the use of foam insulation in front of the radiator and/or intercooler, to help the engine warm up quicker.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=665792

When the engine is cold, so is the inlet air temp and so is the fuel temp. Someone else will have to explain exactly how these might affect fuel usage. The ECM uses this information to adjust the fuel/air mixture, or more likely the timing of the injection (injecting later when the air is already more compressed, so hotter).

Diesel fuel has a higher flashpoint than gasoline, so I think very cold diesel would not combust as efficiently. The fuel must vaporize and mix with air before it combusts. Cold fuel does not vaporize as well. So there may be more unburned fuel, often visible as white smoke from the tailpipe.

In the TDI, fuel in the tank is gradually heated as surplus fuel runs back to the fuel tank from the injection pump. Some diesel-engine trucks use an auxiliary fuel heater.

Engine oil is colder and perhaps slightly more viscous, but I don't think is a factor unless you're using a 50-weight motor oil.

Another possible factor: tire inflation might be down in really cold weather. Check the pressure and pump them back up to 40 psi or so.

The main thing, I think, is how far you drive. If you have a long commute AFTER the engine is warm, then your winter mileage won't be much worse than any other season (except for the winterized-fuel factor). But if many of your trips don't allow the engine to get up to operating temperature, then winter mileage will be seriously degraded. From threads last winter, a number of members with both autos and 5-speeds reported MPGs under 30 during extremely cold weather. They had short commutes.
 

MileageDude

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Winterized fuel has a lower BTU and lower efficiency for burning. I get about 2-4 mpg less after the winterized fuel hits the market place mid Octobre. I even feel it now on my last fill-up with this cold spell and stations in this area putting additives in their tanks.

As for cp. I did not intend to contradict what you had wrote concerning water in the fuel system. The service stations around here even have a sensor that shuts off the pump if it detects water passing through the delivery system if in big gobs [that was told to me by a BP dealer in NY]. But fact of the matter is, I have never drained water out of my own fuel filtre and my cousin never has but once. He started using Redline on my recommendation.

Back on Topic

As for getting an A4 TDI to 500K miles ...I would highly recommend a turbo boost gauge and some other types of gauges. Of recent this was replaced for $80 through IMPEX. The Pierburg after 40,000 miles decided to give up the ghost on this car and perhaps really never performed perfectly due to all the dirt in the actual MAF housing collector. For $80 it's worth changing out the entire sensor and housing. It's a kick in the gonades now and power was never so good. Never. I am ordering one for my own car next week. The boost gauge helped detect this problem when installed last week on my cousin's car.

M.D.
 

greasemonkey

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

I’m not an engineer. But working in automotive repair 40 years ago, I was taught that the critical difference between a cold engine and one at operating temperature it the shape of the wear surfaces.
For example, the engine cylinder wall is not exactly round, neither is the piston or the rings. As they heat up, their shapes change. The wear pattern for a cold engine, if you kept it cold, would have the same longevity as the wear pattern for a warm engine, if you ran it warm all the time. Problem is, unless you are on going a 100k mile trip, you are going to run it in both conditions.
You must be vigilent when it comes to water. Most of the free water in motor vehicle fuel comes from atmospheric condensation, although some comes from the tanker or refineries. If the tanks are bad, some water leaks in from the outside, although this is less of a problem now than it used to be. Every underground storage tank has some water in it, and it is corrosive. Thus, the EPA’s leak detection requirements are a constant headache for service station operators.
 

SUNRG

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

this thread has so much good info - thank to everyone who's contributed.

just wanted to add that in my quest to facilitate our TDIs lasting for 500k+, i started a PD Oil Analysis Thread. One hope is that we'll determine the optimal drain interval range for engine longevity.

plus we're testing/comparing Castrol, Elf and Motul 505.01 oils, Motul's 506.01 and hopefully Elf's 506.01.

if anyone's done an analysis of their 505.01 or 506.01 oil please contribute to the PD Oil Analysis Thread.

thanks!
 

beartooth91

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Janesville, WI
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2014 Passat SE with Sunroof and Nav
Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

By far the most important maintenance item for your TDI is premium quality diesel fuel. Find a station that sells Amoco Premier or BP Supreme, or some other verified good quality fuel. Use fuel additive EVERY tank. Also try running 20% biodiesel, weather permitting. Quality fuel protects the fuel pump, prevents soot buildup in the oil and intake, and keeps your injectors firing properly. It's so much more important than oil, it isn't even funny.

You can run good quality oil to 10-15k miles no problem (given good fuel). Get a bypass filter and go even farther. Make sure the car heats up to full operating temp every time you drive it (meaning no short trips - under 15 miles). Most of the wear on any engine (gas or diesel) comes from cold starting, so start it up as infrequently as possible.

Your shocks will wear out in 50k miles. Wheel bearings will go eventually, and so will alot of other stuff. Just replace em as they wear out and the car will drive well for as long as you want it to.
As for "what fuel", I consistently get the best mpg from the BP diesel or the Phillips 66 diesel. My 2 best tanks, 54 & 56 mpg were both with Phillips 66 diesel. My Jetta typically averages 52 mpg with either of the above on the interstate at a 71mph speed - in warm weather. I consistently get 2-3 mpg less with the Marathon diesel. The Pilot diesel seems to be comparable or maybe just a bit better than the Marathon. Haven't tried the Sunoco diesel yet. I live in IN, but, have found the BP diesel in IN, IL, OH, and MO. I've found the Phillips 66 in the same states plus WY, KS, and CO. Out west, you'll also see Conoco gas stations, and, further west, you'll run into Union 76. All 3 of these chains are owned by Conoco-Phillips. I am not sure whether the same diesel fuel is common to all three chains. COP has several different refineries, so, I just don't know. I also recall reading that Arco (pacific coast) is owned by BP. Again, don't know if both chains use the same quality diesel. I can tell you, though, I take several long trips out west every summer and I see consistent mpg's - as long as I run the BP or Phillips 66 stuff.

As for additives - there seems to be a vast difference of opinion on this site as to whether we should run them or not. I would certainly like to know ! Go to the fuels forums and 1 person says you should - clean injectors - better mileage - etc. The very next post says no you shouldn't - dirty injectors - reduced injection pump life - and you get the picture. I've spent much time reading those threads and cannot figure out whether I should run an additive or not. In my job, I do alot of data collecting and sorting, so, I'm only interested in opinions with meaningful data to back it up. And would very much like to see some. I keep entertaining the idea of running an additive, but, just don't know whether or not its beneficial or safe. Even in this thread someone says it prolongs the life of the injector pump. In another thread I read recently here, a person was saying that most injector pump failures were a result of running additves.....??????????????????????????????????

The TDI is perfect for my several fishing trips and that's what I specifically bought it for. I too, want to drive it for 20+ years and 500+k. I cleaned my intake last month and am installing the ProVent filter in the next few days.......
 

bilzer

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New Hampshire
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Re: Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

I have a 1989 Toyota 4 WD truck. I have run synthetic oil in it all it;s life. The compression is 175 in each cylinder and 180 is brand new out of the factory, so Iam not doing too bad. It has been in the body shop twice for rust issues, but it drives 100%. NOW, if my gasser can make it 15 years, I expect the same with my TDI if I give it the same care.
 

stayalert

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Re: Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

scanned the info here and didn't see:
- don't use the glovebox unless absolutely neccessary
- don't operate the windows unless necceesary
Rob M Concord, MA
 

diesabora

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

The highest mileage I have ever reached on a car goes to our old Peugeot 505 Wagon. 400K+, never had the head off, and only 2 clutches.
My 91 Audi has 223K. My former Audi V8 had I think 196K when I sold it to a friend (he still is my friend).
Synthetic Oil at 5K intervals, along with timing belts changed religiously. Ditto on the tensioner rollers and all the ancilliary stuff for the timing belt.
 

PDJetta

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Tips for getting an entire A4 TDI to 500k?

Great posts. Two things I would add:

Avoid accidents as best as possible! That means defensive driving. I stay in the shoulder lane to give me an out whenever possible, also less chance of someone pulling over to pass as I am passing on the left. Pay attention when driving-its easy to let your mind wander. Watch other drivers waiting to pull out into the roadway carefuly as you approach them, especially if they have not come to a complete stop. It does not take as big of a hit as you think to total a TDI. It costs about $6000 to replace the air bags and related dash parts if the front ones deploy, not to mention the other body damage needing repairs. Even a minor accident damage repaired area on the car is never as durable as before the accident. Accident avoidance becomes especially important if you have maticulously maintained your car. If totaled, what are you going to replace it with?

The other item is that I would replace the gear oil (manual) or auto trans fluid (automatic, of course) at about 30,000 - 40,000 miles to get rid of the initial wear particles, or upon buying the car used. Use Redline MTL or the VW gear oil for the manual. Replace the brake fluid every 2 years (flush the entire system, including the clutch cylinders) and flush the coolaing system periodically.

--Nate
 

FL/COtdi

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Rebump. Now that sometime has gone by with ULSD. . . Does deleting the EGR help extend engine life? I ask because this is posted above:

- The EGR Mod is a must if the rings and upper cylinders are expected to last for 500k. With the "cleanest" fuel, the "best" filter(s), etc., the DIESEL engine still churns-out lots of soot and other abrasive particles. Taking that stuff back thru the engine is a self-destructive process
 
Last edited:

whawker

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Austin, Texas
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'10 Sportwagen TDI 6spd used to have '03 Jetta TDI wagon
At 250,000 put in a new turbo. You're risking too much if you go beyond that. Also new injectors.

At 500,000 put in a new injection pump.

Just turned 600,000 myself.
 
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