Timing belt skip tooth

[two passat man]

I had my 2014 Passat TDI in shop for a timing belt replacement. I picked it up and drove 7 miles and it just died. Would struggle when trying to restart. Shop had it towed and checked it out. This is what I got sent this morning. Is car going to be good or should I sell it as soon as I get it back?

Just got the diagnosis from my technician. The nut on the timing tensioner backed out and it jumped time. He tightened everything to OEM spec and even double checked it because he felt it wasn’t tight enough from his experience but the components are aluminum and he didn’t want to break anything so he just trusted VWs spec guide lines instead of going with his instincts. It’s not really anyone’s fault, just extremely unfortunate luck. We will be ordering valves and a head gasket set and will start on that as soon as the parts get here. We will take care of everything for this job. It’s 17 hours so it’ll take a little time. I apologize for this inconvenience. When we finish this job my technician said you will need to drive it gently while everything breaks in. If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to ask.

 

[AverageAndy]

It may be fine or there may be more damage. They won't know until they get into it.

Most important, the shop is being upfront and trying to make it right.

If you were planning on keeping it before, I'd probably stick with that plan if they get it running right.

 

[oilhammer]

Bunch of special tools required to unload the cam carrier on the CR TDIs. It isn't as simple as the older engines. This may end worse than it already is.

 

[privateTDIjet]

I had my 2014 Passat TDI in shop for a timing belt replacement. I picked it up and drove 7 miles and it just died. Would struggle when trying to restart. Shop had it towed and checked it out. This is what I got sent this morning. Is car going to be good or should I sell it as soon as I get it back?

Just got the diagnosis from my technician. The nut on the timing tensioner backed out and it jumped time. He tightened everything to OEM spec and even double checked it because he felt it wasn’t tight enough from his experience but the components are aluminum and he didn’t want to break anything so he just trusted VWs spec guide lines instead of going with his instincts. It’s not really anyone’s fault, just extremely unfortunate luck. We will be ordering valves and a head gasket set and will start on that as soon as the parts get here. We will take care of everything for this job. It’s 17 hours so it’ll take a little time. I apologize for this inconvenience. When we finish this job my technician said you will need to drive it gently while everything breaks in. If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to ask.

Did the timing belt myself and tightened everything according to my gut. This post made me realise im driving a bomb

 

[Nuje]

He tightened everything to OEM spec and even double checked it because he felt it wasn’t tight enough from his experience but the components are aluminum and he didn’t want to break anything

Wait...what?!
What exactly is aluminum? The tensioner stud is steel. The nut is steel. Those are the only things in play.
Torque spec is 20Nm + 45°. (Imagine a 15lb. dumbbell at the end of a 1ft lever - that's not nothing. PLUS 45° after that.)
And for reference, the Mk4 ALH cars have a torque spec on that tensioner nut that's only 20Nm - no extra 45°. And it's the same M8x1.25 stud/nut threading. And those hold for 100K miles without issue.)

If the mechanic did that, no way it "backed out" after only 7 miles (or 7000 or 70000miles for that matter). And if they were concerned that it felt "light", freakin' remove the nut, add some loc-tite, and re-do it.

Someone's covering their butt. Methinks they re-used the nut that had been overtightened before and partially stripped.

 

[two passat man]

Wait...what?!
What exactly is aluminum? The tensioner stud is steel. The nut is steel. Those are the only things in play.
Torque spec is 20Nm + 45°. (Imagine a 15lb. dumbbell at the end of a 1ft lever - that's not nothing. PLUS 45° after that.)
And for reference, the Mk4 ALH cars have a torque spec on that tensioner nut that's only 20Nm - no extra 45°. And it's the same M8x1.25 stud/nut threading. And those hold for 100K miles without issue.)

If the mechanic did that, no way it "backed out" after only 7 miles (or 7000 or 70000miles for that matter). And if they were concerned that it felt "light", freakin' remove the nut, add some loc-tite, and re-do it.

Someone's covering their butt. Methinks they re-used the nut that had been overtightened before and partially stripped.

You might be correct on the covering butt. After 60 days they finally pulled it into the shop and got it apart.They are telling me now that the timing belt did not skip a tooth and the top end had catastrophic failure. lifters and rocker arms blew apart. so now I have to go in and they will show me the damage.

 

[oilhammer]

No, the botched timing belt job caused the rest of it.

They owe you an engine. Period. They screwed it up.

 

[two passat man]

No, the botched timing belt job caused the rest of it.

They owe you an engine. Period. They screwed it up.

How can I prove that? I know timing belts skip and stuff blows apart, but there is no visible damage to valve or pistons. I might have to take it to a judge and hope for the best.

 

[pedroYUL]

The belt can be installed with a tooth off in a CVCA (2015) engine, and the car starts and runs...but then complaints about cam to crank correlation. Which is what happened to me the first time I did the belt in my Passat.

The top end can't just fail and break rocker arms and lifters, that is the end result of piston contact on these later engines. I remember at least one good thread with pictures of a TB failure, which results in exactly that: broken rocker arms, destroyed cams.

 

[two passat man]

Adding the tune and increasing the power is the most likely cause of the failure in the rocket arms and lifters. Tuning increases overall power leading to higher cylinder pressure. More force on the camshaft, lifters and rocker arms can cause extreme wear. The egr delete causes higher combustion temperature and increases thermal stress in the valve train and more soot. With the tune the rpm raise makes it easier to over drive the car as well. It’s the dangers of modifications.
I need to research the tune you got for it to give you an exact figure but in general a stage 1 tune adds about 40hp def delete with exhaust upgrade add another 20hp. From what I’ve found the stock lifters and rocker arms start having a hard time at 180hp and should be upgraded at 190hp. Stock hp is 140hp.

So now the shop is saying this tune caused the failure . It’s had a .5 tunezilla with def delete. She said to much pressure and HP caused it. I told her to get the car ready to be towed from the shop and I will take her to court for the repairs she failed to do after she said she would. I got a lot on information from the great people on this site.

 

[oilhammer]

Adding the tune and increasing the power is the most likely cause of the failure in the rocket arms and lifters. Tuning increases overall power leading to higher cylinder pressure. More force on the camshaft, lifters and rocker arms can cause extreme wear. The egr delete causes higher combustion temperature and increases thermal stress in the valve train and more soot. With the tune the rpm raise makes it easier to over drive the car as well. It’s the dangers of modifications.

Huh????

 

[two passat man]

Someone should inform the shop that Bring Your Daughter To Work Day is not mandatory. I'm trying to find my jpg of a chick in a lab coat measuring camshaft wear, but it escapes me for now.

Well the purple hair and 2 inch nails while explaining to me how DEF system works and how deleting it can make 20 extra horsepower I said put my car back together enough to tow it to a different shop. I’m hoping that the Judge gets a little laugh when I take her to court for the repairs promised and she brings up the tune……..tune has been on the car for 2 years

 

[two passat man]

Huh????

Huh????

well the cylinder pressure with the tune caused it. DEF delete added 20 extra HP so to much pressure in cylinders. She claimed that because no marks on valves or pistons her timing belt was not the issue. I was nice and did not go off on her trying to tell her that the skip caused cam not to be in sync. I told her to get it towable and let me know so I can have it towed and fixed. I let the new shop know the car was coming next week and talked to Machanic and he was going to check valves and cams to see if they were actually damaged. He was actually concerned about the cams being damaged.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

The egr delete causes higher combustion temperature and increases thermal stress in the valve train and more soot.

It's actually less soot with the EGR deleted.

 

[oilhammer]

So much misinformation....

But I can assure you, tuning the engine doesn't have any effect on the timing system. That's quite laughable, to be honest. And the camshafts, roller rockers, valves, etc. don't care whatsoever how much cylinder pressure there is.

There are plenty of these running around with 1/4 million miles or more on modded engines that are perfectly fine.

And, as is very well known, less EGR (or NO EGR) means far less soot. You've been seriously misinformed. Sorry.

You had a botched timing belt job done, and it tooefed your engine. Period.

 

[740GLE]

thats some good finger pointing away from the shop.

I'm surprised they didn't point at non OEM specific tires or improper windshield washer fluid as the true cause of the failure.

 

[privateTDIjet]

thats some good finger pointing away from the shop.

I'm surprised they didn't point at non OEM specific tires or improper windshield washer fluid as the true cause of the failure.

More like "You had winter air in your spring-time tires"