Timing Belt on 250k mile engine

[psrumors]

Just picked up an 02 Jetta wagon with a leaking water pump / unknown maintenance history. Below is a list of my plans "while I'm there" and wondering if I am missing anything. It's a decently nice car and my plan is to use it for a daily run around. I'd like to bring it up to par starting with engine maintenance.

Timing belt, tensioner, pulleys, bolts, nuts, studs, water pump
Cam sprocket & bolt
Cam seal
Injector pump pulley bolts
Hard coolant pipe o ring
Thermostat kit
Vacuum Pump seal
Harmonic balancer bolts
Single use bolts
Serpentine tensioner & belt
Alternator pulley
Coolant hoses
Oil cooler gaskets
Engine mounts
Oil change
A couple vacuum hoses, in particular brake line

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Just picked up an 02 Jetta wagon with a leaking water pump / unknown maintenance history. Below is a list of my plans "while I'm there" and wondering if I am missing anything. It's a decently nice car and my plan is to use it for a daily run around. I'd like to bring it up to par starting with engine maintenance.

Timing belt, tensioner, pulleys, bolts, nuts, studs, water pump
Cam sprocket & bolt
Cam seal
Injector pump pulley bolts
Hard coolant pipe o ring
Thermostat kit
Vacuum Pump seal
Harmonic balancer bolts
Single use bolts
Serpentine tensioner & belt
Alternator pulley
Coolant hoses
Oil cooler gaskets
Engine mounts
Oil change
A couple vacuum hoses, in particular brake line

Before the engine runs again, a complete timing belt change kit gets done.

Cam sprocket & bolt: last forever
Cam seal : only if it is really seeping
Injector pump pulley bolts: lifetime items
Hard coolant pipe o ring : the o-ring comes with the T-stat kit
Thermostat kit: see above
Vacuum Pump seal : only if it is leaking down the driver's side of the engine
Harmonic balancer bolts : new higher strength bolts are available, another not need to change item.
Single use bolts: always r&r
Serpentine tensioner & belt: after 100k or 6 years change both
Alternator pulley: not unless it is jammed up, it is a real PITA job to do
Coolant hoses: of course
Oil cooler gaskets: not unless they are leaking
Engine mounts: are yours bad?
Oil change with filter: of course
A couple vacuum hoses, in particular brake line: if you are going to do the vacuum hoses, do them all and be careful with the brake booster line they do get brittle with age

 

[Vince Waldon]

You've got 95% of what I do when I remediate an old beast during that first timing belt.

I also (and these may be deeper than you want to go this time):

- summarily replace *all* vacuum hoses... a coil of hose is cheap, they wear in unseen places
- pull the alternator regulator and check for brush and slip ring wear. "While the belt's off"... yada yada yada
- sand and retighten all the large cable connections: alternator, big grounds under the battery tray, etc
- check for bearing noise on the serp belt idler pully.... replace if noisy. "While the belt's off..."
- air filter and fuel filter (don't see 'em on your list but I bet it is)

Anything that might leave me walking some day 'cause it hasn't been replaced since 2002.

 

[Prairieview]

I totally agree with replacing the alternator clutch pulley NOW. Esp. if this is on a Jetta. The jetta is so much easier to do than a Beetle. I would also go ahead and opt for the bolts in the harmonic pulley. You are there now. Head-off bad times later when you don't have time to drop everything and address it then.

Focus on Vinnie's last sentence.

 

[P2B]

I would replace the serpentine belt idler pulley noisy or not. I just had one fail at about that milage not long after doing the alternator pulley - and it was good then.

 

[Brett San Diego]

I would replace the serpentine belt idler pulley noisy or not. I just had one fail at about that milage not long after doing the alternator pulley - and it was good then.

Agree with this. I had the same experience. The plastic spokes just disintegrated.

Brett

 

[jettawreck]

If you plan to keep the 2002 for the long haul it was suggested to me by Frank to replace the cam and lifters at about 250k miles especially if prior service history and oil type usage is unknown.
My 2001 needed a new main front oil seal shortly after it's second/third TB interval. Look for any oil leak residue coming from the crank area.

 

[psrumors]

Before the engine runs again, a complete timing belt change kit gets done.

Cam sprocket & bolt: last forever
Cam seal : only if it is really seeping
Injector pump pulley bolts: lifetime items
Hard coolant pipe o ring : the o-ring comes with the T-stat kit
Thermostat kit: see above
Vacuum Pump seal : only if it is leaking down the driver's side of the engine
Harmonic balancer bolts : new higher strength bolts are available, another not need to change item.
Single use bolts: always r&r
Serpentine tensioner & belt: after 100k or 6 years change both
Alternator pulley: not unless it is jammed up, it is a real PITA job to do
Coolant hoses: of course
Oil cooler gaskets: not unless they are leaking
Engine mounts: are yours bad?
Oil change with filter: of course
A couple vacuum hoses, in particular brake line: if you are going to do the vacuum hoses, do them all and be careful with the brake booster line they do get brittle with age

On the cam sprocket and bolt, I have read issues of them spinning on the shaft. Some contribute this to the shaft not being clean others have stated stretched bolt, worn sprocket. I am torn on it.

The engine mounts seem fine and I have backed off doing them just due to budget. I plan to buy a VCDS cable also in all of this, I know I can rent but this car will be here a while.

You've got 95% of what I do when I remediate an old beast during that first timing belt.

I also (and these may be deeper than you want to go this time):

- summarily replace *all* vacuum hoses... a coil of hose is cheap, they wear in unseen places
- pull the alternator regulator and check for brush and slip ring wear. "While the belt's off"... yada yada yada
- sand and retighten all the large cable connections: alternator, big grounds under the battery tray, etc
- check for bearing noise on the serp belt idler pully.... replace if noisy. "While the belt's off..."
- air filter and fuel filter (don't see 'em on your list but I bet it is)

Anything that might leave me walking some day 'cause it hasn't been replaced since 2002.

Thanks, added to my list. The serp idler pulley is included in the serp kit I'll be using, all good there. Great idea on the sand and retighten cable connections.

I would replace the serpentine belt idler pulley noisy or not. I just had one fail at about that milage not long after doing the alternator pulley - and it was good then.

Part of the kit I am using. Thanks

If you plan to keep the 2002 for the long haul it was suggested to me by Frank to replace the cam and lifters at about 250k miles especially if prior service history and oil type usage is unknown.
My 2001 needed a new main front oil seal shortly after it's second/third TB interval. Look for any oil leak residue coming from the crank area.

Will take the cam into consideration.


Thanks all for the input. Parts order will go in tonight. Going to give the car another look this morning.

 

[gforce1108]

The cam bolt spec is 33 ft-lbs? Some have had issues slipping so the recommendation has been 45 ft-lbs for the last 15 years or so? Destructive testing was done well over that! The original IP pulley bolts were stretch bolts so hopefully they've been replaced as some point already

 

[Vince Waldon]

Assuming both the sprocket and cam taper are smooth and clean (brake-kleen clean) 45 ft-lbs and you're good to go... no particular need IMHO to buy new hardware for this specific task.

One other thing to consider adding to the shopping list (again on the deep dive side of the list): a short length of yellow tygon tubing from your local motorcycle/lawnmotor shop to replace all the return lines between the injectors and the injection pump. They *do* rot out over the decades and make a stinky mess when they finally let go.... quick/easy/cheap to replace 'em in advance.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Beware of cheaper parts too... I just put an engine in a car because of a gates timing belt kit with cheap bearings which failed.
Also the alternator clutch pulley and tensioner/idler... get oem ina not aftermarket ones.

 

[csstevej]

Also plan on putting in time serts or equivalent into your engine mounts. Usually by the time the third belt is being done ( I know you have no history ) the threads pull out of the engine mounts when doing the final 90 degree turn. It would suck if you found this out when reassemble….ask me how I know….
Now as my family’s car come through I automatically do them as the mount is out and will never have issues again , I have 5 TDI’s I think I have one left to do….

 

[PakProtector]

Yer scarin' me Moz...just did my BEW timing belt and whilst running a Dayco Isoran belt, the IDP kit was a Gates...

Douglas

 

[Mozambiquer]

Yer scarin' me Moz...just did my BEW timing belt and whilst running a Dayco Isoran belt, the IDP kit was a Gates...

Douglas

The gates belts are good, but they use various manufacturers for the idlers and pulleys..often using gmb Korean made ones which fail.

 

[Genesis]

Yeah its not the belt that's the problem in the cheaper kits, its the rollers. The folks who specialize and are members here don't do that sort of silly stuff, but the "Chinamart" folks DO and if you lose a roller it has the same impact as losing the belt does.

 

[jokila]

Just picked up an 02 Jetta wagon with a leaking water pump / unknown maintenance history. Below is a list of my plans "while I'm there" and wondering if I am missing anything. It's a decently nice car and my plan is to use it for a daily run around. I'd like to bring it up to par starting with engine maintenance.

Timing belt, tensioner, pulleys, bolts, nuts, studs, water pump

Cam sprocket & bolt - no need to replace
Cam seal - replace. You have no idea if it was replaced before. Also, it comes with the kit and you have to remove the sprocket anyway. It's a simple task from there.
Injector pump pulley bolts - yes, if they are the old kind with the thin neck.
Hard coolant pipe o ring - You are not anywhere "near there" on this one. Unless it's leaking, there isn't a reason to replace.
Thermostat kit - You can change anything you want, but why?
Vacuum Pump seal - part of the timing belt kit.
Harmonic balancer bolts - Yes, only because they often can be stubborn to remove and get boogered a tad. Comes in the kit.
Single use bolts - All motor mount bolts are single use. The large roller bolt is single use too.
Serpentine tensioner & belt - Belt is part of the high quality kits from better suppliers. Tensioner can be replaced, but if you want to change anything, buy the mini shock absorber from a supplier instead of the whole tensioner.
Alternator pulley - Don't fix what isn't broken. It's not part of the timing belt system. There isn't any advantage to replacing it.
Coolant hoses - they practically last forever. Waste of time to change.
Oil cooler gaskets - Sure, if leaking.
Engine mounts- - they last a very long time. Very.
Oil change - yeah. with synthetic for diesel every 10K miles.
A couple vacuum hoses, in particular brake line - sure, if it's leaking. If you see some that are bad, then others are worn too. You can buy the quality, OEM looking tubing from idlarts.com

 

[Brett San Diego]

If you're going to keep it for a while. Replace the cam and lifters.

Brett

 

[P2B]

Alternator pulley - Don't fix what isn't broken. It's not part of the timing belt system. There isn't any advantage to replacing it.

In my experience they rarely last two full timing belt intervals. I prefer to change it while I'm in there since a failure in the serpentine belt system is inconvenient at best and can be catastrophic if belt shreds get wound around the crank sprocket.

If the OPs alternator pulley is original, it's already on borrowed time.

 

[Mozambiquer]

In my experience they rarely last two full timing belt intervals. I prefer to change it while I'm in there since a failure in the serpentine belt system is inconvenient at best and can be catastrophic if belt shreds get wound around the crank sprocket.

If the OPs alternator pulley is original, it's already on borrowed time.

I agree with this! I'm an alternator rebuilder and have seen plenty of clutch pulleys fail..its a lot easier to do while you're doing the timing belt and so I do them at every timing belt service. It's a $35 part and when it fails it can take out your serpentine belt and tensioner as well as in some cases the timing belt if shreds of the serpentine belt go in there.

 

[psrumors]

Who has replaced the timing belt idler pulley studs? Did a normal stud puller work? Any difficulties doing the two stud?

 

[jettawreck]

Who has replaced the timing belt idler pulley studs? Did a normal stud puller work? Any difficulties doing the two stud?

Easy. Just double nut the stud and turn it out.
But unless it's bent/damaged I'm not sure why it would need replacement.

 

[jokila]

Easy. Just double nut the stud and turn it out.
But unless it's bent/damaged I'm not sure why it would need replacement.

I've never seen the need to replace the idler stud.

You can use vice grip to remove it. I use a tiny vice grips to remove the tensioner stud doing the "pro" version of timing belt work on the TDI engines that can be done that way.

 

[Prairieview]

Finally, a few intelligent statements re: alt. clutch pulley!

Did you ever see a movie where there was a guy on a ledge and the crowd below is chanting, "....jump.....jump.....jump.....?" Look above.

 

[wonneber]

Finally, a few intelligent statements re: alt. clutch pulley!

Did you ever see a movie where there was a guy on a ledge and the crowd below is chanting, "....jump.....jump.....jump.....?" Look above.

As sad as it was I did see this in Passaic NJ.
One one the tall buildings.
Police had everything blocked off.
All the locals yelling jump you f...ing chicken.
Never heard about the outcome.