Timing Belt Help

[ddrietz]

I just purchased a 2004 Beetle TDI 1.9. The guy I purchased it from said the guy before him said he replaced the timing belt. It has 117k miles on it. The belt is not shiny at all on the back side, rather almost like a cloth or canvas backing. It is very clean (very little residue when I use a paper towel to wipe it), and I can (barely) see the numbers on it yet. The numbers are VW AG 036 109 119. The 3rd number might be a 8. I'm trying to verify the belt has indeed been replaced. Does anyone know if that part number belt would be on a belt from 2004? I can send pics of it also if that helps anyone determine anything (I cannot figure out how to put a picture on this post). Has a new accessory belt with the velvet on it yet so thinking someone prob did all at once but would feel better if I could verify this with a PN or pic. I find it unlikely I could see the numbers on it yet after 117k miles but one of my mechanic friends said you can sometimes see them forever... (not sure if I believe that or not).

 

[Tdijarhead]

Don’t guess, change it. You’re relying on two different sellers who are both lying to you. At 117k it may never have been changed and it may have been changed 20k ago you have no way of knowing. Change it.

 

[Mongler98]

when you buy a car, assume your being lied to 100% by the seller and assume it was neglected and used cheap parts.
on these cars, timing belt is EVERYTING and about the only thing if done wrong or with crap parts, will end in a total loss of a useable engine and car.
i have replaced belt with less than 30K miles but about 5 years of age, and they look NEW, i have replaced belts that have been upwards of 150k miles in only 3 years that also look NEW. i have replaced belts that look old as heck too that had plenty of "life" probably left in them.
looks mean NOTHING to these belts unless sits obviously cracked or breaking. they can go off with no warning at all other than the haunting neglect in the back of your grey matter.

change it, do all your fluids, filters, and most rubber parts need inspecting and probably some maintenance.
these cars go forever if cared for

 

[ddrietz]

Thx guys, i was afraid that was gonna be the answer

 

[Mozambiquer]

I changed the belt on a beetle that the previous owner said the belt had been changed on... The customer had complained about a whine from the front of the engine near the belts. I used a stethoscope and found it was coming from under the timing cover and told them they should replace the belt. When I pulled it apart, I found an OEM belt that had a 2004 date code, as well as the other components. It was a 2004 beetle with 146k miles.
A second one was a 2003 Jetta with 200k miles. The previous owner stated that the toothed belt had been replaced and even had the receipt. But I noticed that it was an estimate, not an invoice, and changed the timing belt, as it was making noise. Also an original belt.
Those two were just a couple of lucky cases, and reasons not to believe the previous owner.

 

[csstevej]

Yeah all the cars I’ve gotten the TB kit was the first thing I do .

 

[Tdijarhead]

I was looking at a beetle a couple of years ago (150k) from a local seller. I popped the top TB cover off and I saw the worst looking belt I have ever seen still intact. I didn't buy the car but I wanted to, just to change the belt, I had a feeling it was original. It even had faded VW markings on it. I don't know what ever happened to that poor bug.

 

[ddrietz]

I changed the belt on a beetle that the previous owner said the belt had been changed on... The customer had complained about a whine from the front of the engine near the belts. I used a stethoscope and found it was coming from under the timing cover and told them they should replace the belt. When I pulled it apart, I found an OEM belt that had a 2004 date code, as well as the other components. It was a 2004 beetle with 146k miles.
A second one was a 2003 Jetta with 200k miles. The previous owner stated that the toothed belt had been replaced and even had the receipt. But I noticed that it was an estimate, not an invoice, and changed the timing belt, as it was making noise. Also an original belt.
Those two were just a couple of lucky cases, and reasons not to believe the previous owner.

 

[ddrietz]

Wow crazy. You mentioned date code. Is are there more numbers to look for on the belt to see a date? Also any pref on brand of stuff? Im looking at a kit on ebay with a gates belt, ina idler and tensioner pulley and geba water pump for $180 fm Wolfsburg Tuning, or am I better off with something else.

 

[csstevej]

Your also gonna need all the torque to yield bolts , acc belt , at this time the cam seal would be a good idea to change , also thermostat with a new housing ( coolant already drained ) .
The on line club vendors are a good place to get kits that have everything.

I usually use these guys , but there are others on here too.

Idpart.com
Metalmanparts.com
Cascadegerman.com

 

[ddrietz]

Your also gonna need all the torque to yield bolts , acc belt , at this time the cam seal would be a good idea to change , also thermostat with a new housing ( coolant already drained ) .
The on line club vendors are a good place to get kits that have everything.

I usually use these guys , but there are others on here too.

Idpart.com
Metalmanparts.com
Cascadegerman.com

Thanks

 

[pkhoury]

Take it from experience. I bought my first running mk4, a 2004 Golf, back in 2016. Previous owner had paperwork saying the TB was replaced at 201K (I bought it at 204K). The belt took a $hit at 258K. It didn't break, but I did loose twelve teeth. Now, anything I buy (with the exception of 3 cars that were CPO from the dealer) gets the TB changed. Even if it has a date code of 2020 and I buy it in 2021, it gets changed, because you also don't know if the previous owner knew what they hell they were doing when they installed it!

 

[ddrietz]

True that, I bought a 2000 Beetle with a 1.8t that had a "fresh timing belt and pump". Belt was new but installer had bent the belt cover and it had worn a groove in the belt approx 20% the width of the belt and 30% depth. Replaced that one with only 15k miles on it. When I got in there the new coolant pump was already weeping also!!!

 

[Mozambiquer]

And who knows what brand timing belt was used. Could have been a "prothe" belt...

 

[csstevej]

And who knows what brand timing belt was used. Could have been a "prothe" belt...

( fingers held together in the sign off the cross ).

 

[Tdijarhead]

Here is a good quality lit from one of tdiclub site supporters. I’ve used this kit several times it has everything you need. Idparts also has a high mileage kit which includes even more. You may want to consider the high mileage kit since you know little of previous maintenance.

Timing Belt Kit (A4 BEW)

Timing belt kit for the 2004-2005 Jetta TDI, 2004-2006 Golf TDI and 2004-2006 New Beetle TDI. This kit has been assembled with OE quality parts by the best manufacturers needed for a replacement of...

www.idparts.com

 

[POWERSTROKE]

Who can do a belt in NH?

 

[csstevej]

Why NH?

 

[DivineChaos]

Wow crazy. You mentioned date code. Is are there more numbers to look for on the belt to see a date? Also any pref on brand of stuff? Im looking at a kit on ebay with a gates belt, ina idler and tensioner pulley and geba water pump for $180 fm Wolfsburg Tuning, or am I better off with something else.

Go with a reputable site. Stay away from ebay/ Amazon for critical parts. There are only sertian places we trust. Spend the money and get the good stuff.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

I live there. I’ve never done one on my own.

 

[csstevej]

Ahhh …. Thought you were in Staten Island…..your sig.

 

[bmwM5power]

the TB on BEW engine is the easiest to do and the kit is the cheapest one among diesels

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I agree, the timing belt on a PD is much easier than an ALH. With no injection pump to set in time, it is a fairly easy job to do.

 

[pkhoury]

I agree, the timing belt on a PD is much easier than an ALH. With no injection pump to set in time, it is a fairly easy job to do.

Good to know. The easiest I think is the common rail; the ALH wasn't hard, but time consuming.

 

[ddrietz]

How do you know if the timing belt is too tight? Mine is making some noise post install. This will be the 3rd belt or so i have done (not on a tdi) but I dont remember noise on the first 2. Only have 40 miles on it so maybe needs to wear in. It is easily twice as tight as the serpentine belt. I would guess I have around 0.100" of deflection pushing on it with 15 lbs of force. I had to loosen the litens tensioner to the point I could spin it out of the holding square but belt went on fairly easily then. It is a Dayco kit fm Advance Auto. Ordered before getting input on this forum on kits from site suppliers :-(

 

[ddrietz]

Engine was hot but I can only twist the belt maybe 30 degrees, and after getting a caliper by it im guessing 0.125 deflection with 15 lbs of force. The tensioner is set with the needle between the windows but it seems about twice as tight as I think it should be. First diesel belt I have done tho. Do I dare back the tensioner off from where the book says to set it? Can hear supercharger whine from it when I put my head down a foot or so from the belt.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Engine was hot but I can only twist the belt maybe 30 degrees, and after getting a caliper by it im guessing 0.125 deflection with 15 lbs of force. The tensioner is set with the needle between the windows but it seems about twice as tight as I think it should be. First diesel belt I have done tho. Do I dare back the tensioner off from where the book says to set it? Can hear supercharger whine from it when I put my head down a foot or so from the belt.

Did all the idlers and water pump get replaced as well? A stethoscope can help narrow down where the noise is coming from. The other thing to be sure of is that the tensioner is turned the correct direction.

 

[ddrietz]

New idler, tensioner and pump. I needed to pry it clockwise to put tension on it after the belt was on. Is that the correct direction?

 

[ddrietz]

Rereading the directions tonight i never rotated it clockwise with the pin in. Rather loosened the bolt so I could take the tab out of the hole, rotated the whole thing clockwise, installed the belt, then rotated Counter clockwise to get the tab back into the engine block hole then rotated clockwise to tension. Am I using the spring tension in the wrong direction?

 

[pedroYUL]

I agree, the timing belt on a PD is much easier than an ALH. With no injection pump to set in time, it is a fairly easy job to do.

Till you have to tweak torsion, and spend hours going back and forth from zero (out of range) and zero (the other out of range)...kidding usually you can only be out of range on one side and not the other, but still can spend hours trying to get to the target torsion, just saying.