Timing Belt Broken, Repair?, Buy New?, etc? Pics.

[MORE_MPG]

Hello,
- Unfortunately, my father is in need of some help. His 1997 TDI Sedan with just less than 110K miles broke its belt the other day. I have a couple of timing belt kits on their way from Harv. I won't let mine go by 120K for sure!
- Below are some thumbnails of the problem areas. You should be able to click on them to see larger pictures.
- The ones that I am most interested to ask about are the ones that show the cam. I slipped some business cards under the lobes. There is 1 to 2 mm of space under four lobes, does this mean that these valves are broken?






- The end all question is; is it more economical to buy a replacment head or long block or repair the current head (if possible)? Lets assume that he and I will be doing all of the work and that we are both capable of doing all but the machining of the head, if required. I expect that still leaves a bunch of variables, but I really want some place to start this discussion.
- Thank you in advance! I have run a search ( one of the better links, but old ), but was not able to find this answer (maybe because it is an unreasonable question, feel free to let me know if you think so, please let me know what else you believe needs to be considered).

 

[Bookerdog]

You're going to get a lot more very knowledgable replies than I'll be able to give, but I figured I would start. First answer is that you probably won't know much until you pull the head. You certainly bent and/or broke a few valves, and the head cavity is trashed. So you will need a new head pretty much no matter what. This damage can't be machined out. The big question will be how much damage was done to the piston tops. If one or more is damaged badly, then the costs start to rise big time. If the cylinder walls were scored badly, you'll need a block.

Lots of folks will be able to give you advice once the extent of the motor damage is documented. (BTW, nice pictures so far!)

I've read several tales around here about A3/B4's breaking belts and getting away with just a head. The damage will be most dependent on how fast the motor was running when the belt let go. In the neighborhood at 20 mph = good, on the highway at 75 = bad.

One question, when you said he went 110k miles, was that the original belt on the car, or was it the second nearing the end of it's 60k mile life?

 

[tomo366]

I was running 75 MPH on I95 in my Passat when the thing let go.....At that time the car had 37,800 miles on it.
VW put a new head on the car and I never had another problem and the car never visited a VW dealer again in the time I owned her. I sold her last month and she now resides with her new owner and all is well. 95,000+ miles.
On another different note I bought a 99 Jetta A3 TDI this past weekend and it has 73,000 miles on it and the belt has yet to be changed...... I am afraid to drive it home. /images/graemlins/eek.gif

 

[Glennbo]

I just had the same thing happen to me. Except I got lucky.
110k miles on a 96 passat TDI. I bought the car a yr ago. I was monitoring the belt every couple months and it looked okay. I went to start the car and maybe 1 or 2 cyl fired and then nothing. It just cranked. on inspectionbelt was missing a bunch of teeth. Jumped just enough to prevent starting but no damage. If the valve is closed and the lobe is pointing up and there is a bunch of space between the lifter and cam, the valve is bent and will not seat. I put together an old BMW 320i the wrong way and bent valves. I pulled valves out hammered them straight and reinstalled. It worked. I dont recommend this route, I was young and broke at the time. I think if you only have 1 or 2 valves bent, just have those replaced if money is a problem, seat them in and be on your way.

By the way I installed a new t belt on my TDI and all is well. If I would have known it was so easy, I would have done it a long time ago.

Good luck,

Glenn

 

[weedeater]

You'll have to pull the head and see what the pistons look like. If your' lucky, just some collapseed lifters and maybe some bent valves.

 

[mrchill]

Doesn't look too bad so far man. Take off the head, inspect it thoroughly for damage to the cam and buckets... this is a VERY overlooked area when this happens in a diesel. This repair should be quick, and relatively inexpensive. And while it's apart....low compression pistons?...hehehehe /images/graemlins/wink.gif. Fill me in on the results!

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] how do you know you are alive if you are not miserable?

 

[MORE_MPG]

Update - My father purchased a used head for $375, a TB kit from Harv. for $120 (w/ water pump). Next step will be gaskets I guess. Then tear into it. He got the 12 point adapter deals for the head bolts.
- Does anyone know if additional special tools are required (other that the standard TB tools that is)?
- The Bentley says something about different thickness head gaskets, is this for real? How does one measure for this? I would expect it would be dependant on the head and the valves. I hope that it isn't really a big deal.

Thanks!

 

[GoFaster]

The "which head gasket" question is really easy to answer. On the front of the engine, there is a spot where the head gasket projects out a bit. In that projecting area, there will be either one, two, or three holes or notches. Those indicate the gasket thickness. Buy a gasket with the same number of holes or notches ... or if you want to lower the compression a bit, buy one with three notches. Never use a gasket with fewer notches than it originally came with ... you need the head-to-piston clearance.

 

[Bookerdog]

That's a good deal on the head. Other than the triple square bits, you'll need a pretty good torque wrench for the new bolts you're going to put back in. Be sure to have the car in a garage when torquing the head bolts, my pop cracked the block on our first '79 rabbit diesel by trying to crank 'em in sub-freezing weather. I'm sure they've come a long way, but I'm still wary of putting serious tension on a bolt when the metal is very cold.

I'd love it if you'd keep taking pictures too. I think the whole tdi club is sorta voyeristic when it comes to work like this... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[braunfels_tx_tdi]

You're not supposed to reuse the old head bolts so make sure you get new ones as well along with your gasket.