timing belt breaking data?

[richard hamilton]

I apologize if this is already on the forum, but I can't find it. I am just curious if there is a thread for actual data on timing belts breaking. What mileages (and other information) are belts actually breaking?

 

[jasonTDI]

What motor? And no, not really. It's exceedingly rare for it to happen early. Often its the result of something else breaking first.

 

[jettawreck]

I apologize if this is already on the forum, but I can't find it. I am just curious if there is a thread for actual data on timing belts breaking. What mileages (and other information) are belts actually breaking?

With a bit of research(ing) you will most likely prove to yourself that the TB itself is usually not the first component in the system to fail (break, shred, etc). Often one of the rollers, the tensioner, or waterpump are first to give out, which destroys the belt. This is why its so important to change all the components in the TB path, unless you like to gamble.

The '03 that I bought (broken TB, torn all apart in boxes) was driven to 165,005 miles (IIRC) on the original TB/components. The tensioner looked suspect to me, but prior owner took it somewhere that tore it apart and left all the parts boxed. The TB indeed broke, but the tensioner gave out and let the belt go slack, stripped off a bunch of teeth, then got caught in something and snapped. Nothing that spins goes forever.
Change it all at the scheduled interval and you will be fine. Go longer and maybe/maybe not.

 

[TDICADDGUY]

I can only assume that the reason you are asking this is because you either already are (or want to) go over the recommended interval. This is playing russian roulette with your engine. There is no way to know when the belt (or any of the related components) will fail. It could happen 50000 miles after the interval, or 500.

Unless you like the idea of having to spend thousands to fix your engine, it would be best to have it done right and on-time.

 

[Rattler05.5]

165,005 miles

Aha! Proof that you can drive to 165,004 miles before replaceing it!

Realistically VW looked at the data and factored in some cushion so that they weren't failing under the recomended interval. The longer you go the odds of it failing get higher and higher. The odds of it failing at 80k or whatever they recomend are so low that they said it was statistically an improbablility.

The risk is yours and the car is yours and it's your money. Drive it till it breaks and let us know how long NOT to go.

 

[richard hamilton]

I can only assume that the reason you are asking this is because you either already are (or want to) go over the recommended interval. This is playing russian roulette with your engine. There is no way to know when the belt (or any of the related components) will fail. It could happen 50000 miles after the interval, or 500.

Unless you like the idea of having to spend thousands to fix your engine, it would be best to have it done right and on-time.

My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.

 

[Tom_B]

I don't think you will find the data you're looking for. You may know VW reduced the recommendation from 100k to 80k on your car not that long ago.

Given your join date, I assume you know about the balance shaft module issue. If not, please educate yourself (B5 forum) prior to having the timing belt work done since there are cost savings to performing several repair/maintenance issues at the timing belt change interval. Good luck.

 

[compu_85]

Someone I knew drove 130,000 miles on their 00 Beetle's 60k belt. It sheered of 19 teeth.

They had just gotten the car, and according to the seller the belt had been done at 100k

-J

 

[greengeeker]

It's exceedingly rare for it to happen early.

Absolutely. In fact the only one that comes to mind is this one: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253995

 

[sohccammer427]

You may know VW reduced the recommendation from 100k to 80k on your car not that long ago.

Does this hold true for an '06 Jetta PD? My owners manual specifies 100k miles as the interval. I have not received any smail or email from VW or the dealer stateing it has been lowered to 80k miles.

 

[volmaniac]

My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.

You should consider these folks before the dealer:

Colorado

Steve Carroll - username SCarroll
Aurora, Co

Frey's Foreign Car Service
2550 49th St
Boulder, CO 80301
(303) 440-0725

European Performance Specialist
406 S. Sierra Madre St
Colorado Springs, CO 80903
(719) 475-1046, Loren

aNut
Denver
http://www.dieselland.net/

Hardey's Motorwerks
10315 South Progress Way Unit 2
Parker CO, 80134-4020
Phone: 303.840.7664
http://www.hardeysmotorwerks.com

Cattle Creek V Dubs
5405 County Road 154, Unit L
Glenwood Springs, CO 81601-8626
Phone: (866) 434-6625
www.cattlecreek-vdubs.com
http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=77903
German Motorsports
Kirk (owner)
Colorado Springs, CO
632-0664
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...postcount=1007
Metrick Methodz
3827 Glenarbor Ln
Fort Collins, CO 80524 - 6459
(970) 482-8672

 

[jasonTDI]

Yes, but honestly all my clients are still going 100K without issue.

 

[oilhammer]

You needn't worry about the belt on the Passat, it is the CHAIN you need be concerned with. And no, your dealer won't have a clue.

 

[Drivbiwire]

100K absolutely on the PD engine (2006 for you newbies).

Its a very good design and stronger than a chain. As mentioned, the weak link is the water pump. As long as you replace the water pump and rollers at 100K along with the G12 coolant (70/30 ratio) you will NEVER have a failure of the belt.

Also, make sure all the related hardware is replaced since VW uses coated TTY bolts (single use).

 

[n1das]

100K absolutely on the PD engine (2006 for you newbies).

Its a very good design and stronger than a chain. As mentioned, the weak link is the water pump. As long as you replace the water pump and rollers at 100K along with the G12 coolant (70/30 ratio) you will NEVER have a failure of the belt.

Also, make sure all the related hardware is replaced since VW uses coated TTY bolts (single use).

Mine failed last summer at 76k miles and gave no warning whatsoever. This was in my 05 PD JWagen (BEW PD engine).

At first glance, the TB didn't look broken:

Upon closer inspection, you can see what failed:

Close look at the carnage:

I only put average miles on this car compared to my logging ~ 1k mile/week in my 02 Golf. After 4 years I suspect I was bumping up against the time limit for that belt. Back in 2005, the future of TDIs in the USA was up in the air and I hedged my bet on future availability by grabbing the 05 PD JWagen while I could in case there were no more new TDIs after 2006. I kept this car in pristine showroom condition and also didn't drive it in the winter. Atrophe from non-use may have factored into the belt failure as well as age.

I could have fixed the failure for a lot less than dropping a new engine in there but I wanted to do previously planned performance upgrades while everything was apart. Hardware was bone stock at the time and the clutch was beginning to slip with RC2 tuning. It was known upfront that a clutch upgrade would be needed and it was planned for. A turbo upgrade was also planned for it to solve a boost creep issue with the stock (KP39) turbo and tuning. Given the rest of the car was in like new condition, I decided to make it all new again. Chris Hill (TDIclub mrchill) did the engine swap and upgrade work. The whole job was expensive but the car is SOOOO much better than new now.

My engine swap and upgrade thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253995&highlight=atd

 

[richard hamilton]

Are you saying that you could replace the water pump only and leave the old belt in?

 

[2jettasinthedrive]

He was referring to the Waterpump and rollers being done while you are in there. Weather or not they were showing signs of wear. The timing belt usually comes in a kit .

 

[jettawreck]

Are you saying that you could replace the water pump only and leave the old belt in?

You replace EVERYTHING in there that the belt touches every 80/100K miles. And the belt.

 

[oilhammer]

You replace EVERYTHING in there that the belt touches every 80/100K miles. And the belt.

...and you ditch the chain only once.

 

[jetta 97]

T/Belt is also time wise, I recommend 5 years or 80 on PD engines:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2979649&postcount=12

And like hammer said I would worry more about your timing chain then t/belt. Any way when you do timing chain you do as well t/belt along with tensioner, rollers and w/pump.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=233651

 

[joetdi]

In the past 2 years I purchased two, 2002 Jetta TDI's. They both came with broken timing belts. One had 147K and the other 150K. They were the original belts and never changed.

I would say that there is a huge safety margin built in. I can remember only one or two belts breaking early in 30 years.

 

[compu_85]

Looking at belts my friends had changed on time they were still in great shape. Bending them over backwards would reveal no cracks. Not so on the cars which we worked on that were quite overdue.

I'd rather play it safe. Plus I drive like a jerk with lots of high RPMs and sudden gear changes.

 

[oilhammer]

The earlier (smooth-backed) belt had a much smaller margin of error. Sad, too, because many dealers STILL install those old style belts on older ALHs. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I've seen those break as early as 75k miles (on 01M cars, which while nearly DOUBLE the service interval, is still not very long). The longest I have seen the later (texture-backed) belt go was 176k miles on a 2002 5sp NB, and it was all highway miles. Most seem to fail in the 120 to 140k mile range.

Stupid to try and see how long one will last though, given the consequences.

 

[kcfoxie]

Aha! Proof that you can drive to 165,004 miles before replaceing it!

Realistically VW looked at the data and factored in some cushion so that they weren't failing under the recomended interval. The longer you go the odds of it failing get higher and higher. The odds of it failing at 80k or whatever they recomend are so low that they said it was statistically an improbablility.

The risk is yours and the car is yours and it's your money. Drive it till it breaks and let us know how long NOT to go.

I work next toa 230k AHU that went 166k miles on the OEM 60k belt. Nearly 3x the replacement interval. It also had a failed turbo (Likely the reason that the belt lasted that long, it wasn't ever really challenged to get to speed because it couldn't).

I'm not advocating you attempt this. But you asked for fact. The belt was missing teeth, and it was a hefty job -- tbelt, the turbo, etc... owner sold the car after the driver window regulator crapped out on her to my coworker for $5k. He's been driving it ever since... this was I guess 4-5 years ago. It's a 98 Jetta, A3 style.

Again, I wouldn't gamble it. The dealer never suggested a replacement and she took it to the dealer exclusively for service since the day she bought it -- new.

This is why I hate dealerships, but also one of the stories that planted me in the AHU/ALH/AGR (I have an AGR... so don't argue with me dammit) bandwagon.

 

[PDJetta]

My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.

I replaced the timing belt on my '04 at about 99,600 miles and all was well. I do a lot of rush hour (stop & go) driving too.

If you wait until 100,000 miles to replace the timing belt, you may want to inspect the belt now and then at 90,000 miles and keep an ear out for unusual noises.

Be forewarned about taking your car to the dealer for the work. Besides being WAY overpriced, many folks on this list have reported disasterous results, some requiring engine replacement. Yes, ENGINE REPLACEMENT, and at a long enough time in the future where the dealer will not cover their screw-up. In this case you do not get what you pay for.

--Nate