timing belt breaking data?

Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Location
colorado
TDI
passat
I apologize if this is already on the forum, but I can't find it. I am just curious if there is a thread for actual data on timing belts breaking. What mileages (and other information) are belts actually breaking?
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
12' RAM 2500 QC,LB. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
What motor? And no, not really. It's exceedingly rare for it to happen early. Often its the result of something else breaking first.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
I apologize if this is already on the forum, but I can't find it. I am just curious if there is a thread for actual data on timing belts breaking. What mileages (and other information) are belts actually breaking?
With a bit of research(ing) you will most likely prove to yourself that the TB itself is usually not the first component in the system to fail (break, shred, etc). Often one of the rollers, the tensioner, or waterpump are first to give out, which destroys the belt. This is why its so important to change all the components in the TB path, unless you like to gamble.

The '03 that I bought (broken TB, torn all apart in boxes) was driven to 165,005 miles (IIRC) on the original TB/components. The tensioner looked suspect to me, but prior owner took it somewhere that tore it apart and left all the parts boxed. The TB indeed broke, but the tensioner gave out and let the belt go slack, stripped off a bunch of teeth, then got caught in something and snapped. Nothing that spins goes forever.
Change it all at the scheduled interval and you will be fine. Go longer and maybe/maybe not.
 

TDICADDGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
2000 New Beetle GLS
I can only assume that the reason you are asking this is because you either already are (or want to) go over the recommended interval. This is playing russian roulette with your engine. There is no way to know when the belt (or any of the related components) will fail. It could happen 50000 miles after the interval, or 500.

Unless you like the idea of having to spend thousands to fix your engine, it would be best to have it done right and on-time.
 

Rattler05.5

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Location
Loveland, Co
TDI
2005.5 Jetta 5m; For sale
165,005 miles
Aha! Proof that you can drive to 165,004 miles before replaceing it!

Realistically VW looked at the data and factored in some cushion so that they weren't failing under the recomended interval. The longer you go the odds of it failing get higher and higher. The odds of it failing at 80k or whatever they recomend are so low that they said it was statistically an improbablility.

The risk is yours and the car is yours and it's your money. Drive it till it breaks and let us know how long NOT to go.
 
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Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Location
colorado
TDI
passat
I can only assume that the reason you are asking this is because you either already are (or want to) go over the recommended interval. This is playing russian roulette with your engine. There is no way to know when the belt (or any of the related components) will fail. It could happen 50000 miles after the interval, or 500.

Unless you like the idea of having to spend thousands to fix your engine, it would be best to have it done right and on-time.
My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.
 

Tom_B

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Central Oklahoma
TDI
15 Touareg, 14 A6
I don't think you will find the data you're looking for. You may know VW reduced the recommendation from 100k to 80k on your car not that long ago.

Given your join date, I assume you know about the balance shaft module issue. If not, please educate yourself (B5 forum) prior to having the timing belt work done since there are cost savings to performing several repair/maintenance issues at the timing belt change interval. Good luck.
 
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compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
Someone I knew drove 130,000 miles on their 00 Beetle's 60k belt. It sheered of 19 teeth.

They had just gotten the car, and according to the seller the belt had been done at 100k :(

-J
 

sohccammer427

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Location
Eastern North Carolina
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDi 6 Speed Manual
You may know VW reduced the recommendation from 100k to 80k on your car not that long ago.
Does this hold true for an '06 Jetta PD? My owners manual specifies 100k miles as the interval. I have not received any smail or email from VW or the dealer stateing it has been lowered to 80k miles.
 

volmaniac

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Location
McFadden's Ford, Stones River NMP M'boro, TN
TDI
02 Golf GLS
My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.
You should consider these folks before the dealer:

Colorado

Steve Carroll - username SCarroll
Aurora, Co

Frey's Foreign Car Service
2550 49th St
Boulder, CO 80301
(303) 440-0725

European Performance Specialist
406 S. Sierra Madre St
Colorado Springs, CO 80903
(719) 475-1046, Loren

aNut
Denver
http://www.dieselland.net/

Hardey's Motorwerks
10315 South Progress Way Unit 2
Parker CO, 80134-4020
Phone: 303.840.7664
http://www.hardeysmotorwerks.com

Cattle Creek V Dubs
5405 County Road 154, Unit L
Glenwood Springs, CO 81601-8626
Phone: (866) 434-6625
www.cattlecreek-vdubs.com
http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=77903
German Motorsports
Kirk (owner)
Colorado Springs, CO
632-0664
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...postcount=1007
Metrick Methodz
3827 Glenarbor Ln
Fort Collins, CO 80524 - 6459
(970) 482-8672
 
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jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
12' RAM 2500 QC,LB. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Yes, but honestly all my clients are still going 100K without issue.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
100K absolutely on the PD engine (2006 for you newbies).

Its a very good design and stronger than a chain. As mentioned, the weak link is the water pump. As long as you replace the water pump and rollers at 100K along with the G12 coolant (70/30 ratio) you will NEVER have a failure of the belt.

Also, make sure all the related hardware is replaced since VW uses coated TTY bolts (single use).
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
100K absolutely on the PD engine (2006 for you newbies).

Its a very good design and stronger than a chain. As mentioned, the weak link is the water pump. As long as you replace the water pump and rollers at 100K along with the G12 coolant (70/30 ratio) you will NEVER have a failure of the belt.

Also, make sure all the related hardware is replaced since VW uses coated TTY bolts (single use).
Mine failed last summer at 76k miles and gave no warning whatsoever. :mad: This was in my 05 PD JWagen (BEW PD engine). :(

At first glance, the TB didn't look broken: :eek:


Upon closer inspection, you can see what failed: :eek:


Close look at the carnage: :eek:



I only put average miles on this car compared to my logging ~ 1k mile/week in my 02 Golf. After 4 years I suspect I was bumping up against the time limit for that belt. Back in 2005, the future of TDIs in the USA was up in the air and I hedged my bet on future availability by grabbing the 05 PD JWagen while I could in case there were no more new TDIs after 2006. I kept this car in pristine showroom condition and also didn't drive it in the winter. Atrophe from non-use may have factored into the belt failure as well as age.

I could have fixed the failure for a lot less than dropping a new engine in there but I wanted to do previously planned performance upgrades while everything was apart. Hardware was bone stock at the time and the clutch was beginning to slip with RC2 tuning. It was known upfront that a clutch upgrade would be needed and it was planned for. A turbo upgrade was also planned for it to solve a boost creep issue with the stock (KP39) turbo and tuning. Given the rest of the car was in like new condition, I decided to make it all new again. Chris Hill (TDIclub mrchill) did the engine swap and upgrade work. The whole job was expensive but the car is SOOOO much better than new now. :cool:

My engine swap and upgrade thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253995&highlight=atd
 
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joetdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Location
Midwest
TDI
2-2002 Jettas W/Auto
In the past 2 years I purchased two, 2002 Jetta TDI's. They both came with broken timing belts. One had 147K and the other 150K. They were the original belts and never changed.

I would say that there is a huge safety margin built in. I can remember only one or two belts breaking early in 30 years.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
Looking at belts my friends had changed on time they were still in great shape. Bending them over backwards would reveal no cracks. Not so on the cars which we worked on that were quite overdue.

I'd rather play it safe. Plus I drive like a jerk with lots of high RPMs and sudden gear changes.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The earlier (smooth-backed) belt had a much smaller margin of error. Sad, too, because many dealers STILL install those old style belts on older ALHs. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I've seen those break as early as 75k miles (on 01M cars, which while nearly DOUBLE the service interval, is still not very long). The longest I have seen the later (texture-backed) belt go was 176k miles on a 2002 5sp NB, and it was all highway miles. Most seem to fail in the 120 to 140k mile range.

Stupid to try and see how long one will last though, given the consequences.:cool:
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
Aha! Proof that you can drive to 165,004 miles before replaceing it!

Realistically VW looked at the data and factored in some cushion so that they weren't failing under the recomended interval. The longer you go the odds of it failing get higher and higher. The odds of it failing at 80k or whatever they recomend are so low that they said it was statistically an improbablility.

The risk is yours and the car is yours and it's your money. Drive it till it breaks and let us know how long NOT to go.
I work next toa 230k AHU that went 166k miles on the OEM 60k belt. Nearly 3x the replacement interval. It also had a failed turbo (Likely the reason that the belt lasted that long, it wasn't ever really challenged to get to speed because it couldn't).

I'm not advocating you attempt this. But you asked for fact. The belt was missing teeth, and it was a hefty job -- tbelt, the turbo, etc... owner sold the car after the driver window regulator crapped out on her to my coworker for $5k. He's been driving it ever since... this was I guess 4-5 years ago. It's a 98 Jetta, A3 style.

Again, I wouldn't gamble it. The dealer never suggested a replacement and she took it to the dealer exclusively for service since the day she bought it -- new.

This is why I hate dealerships, but also one of the stories that planted me in the AHU/ALH/AGR (I have an AGR... so don't argue with me dammit) bandwagon.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.
I replaced the timing belt on my '04 at about 99,600 miles and all was well. I do a lot of rush hour (stop & go) driving too.

If you wait until 100,000 miles to replace the timing belt, you may want to inspect the belt now and then at 90,000 miles and keep an ear out for unusual noises.

Be forewarned about taking your car to the dealer for the work. Besides being WAY overpriced, many folks on this list have reported disasterous results, some requiring engine replacement. Yes, ENGINE REPLACEMENT, and at a long enough time in the future where the dealer will not cover their screw-up. In this case you do not get what you pay for.

--Nate
 
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