Thoughts on tiny puff of white smoke(Resolved)

300D

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2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 5-speed, 270K
Hoping for some direction. On cold starts, I am getting an increased starter time lately, maybe 3 turns with one soundings bit long, and a small puff of diesel smelling white smoke. No smoke at all when idling even when cold

Car is a 2003 with newish Firad 520’s(.205), tested and balanced professionally, 11mm pump, and stage 3 Rocketchip.

Also getting a bit of grey smoke on hard accel. I am thinking the grey is a combo of white unburnt diesel and black burnt diesel.

are these two things related? Maybe a slightly leaky injector?

Is the longer turnover time before start causing the puff of white smoke at startup, and the grey smoke has to do with my tune or something else?

car is running pretty nice. 45.3mpg on the last fill up with 60% highway, and 40% back roads where I struggle not to stomp it regularly.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

jmodge

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Maybe slight boost leak or turbo vanes not closing completely at start up
 

KrashDH

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are these two things related? Maybe a slightly leaky injector?

Is the longer turnover time before start causing the puff of white smoke at startup, and the grey smoke has to do with my tune or something else?
Long crank times + white smoke at startup usually equates to a leaking injector. Not always, but since it smells like raw diesel, white puff at startup, it's all that unburnt fuel getting pushed out the tail pipe.

With this, when the car is warm, you'll never have any symptoms. I know not many monitor any injector rail pressures in these cars, but if that drops after sitting, it's a tell-tale sign.

I would send those injectors out to be bench/flow tested.
 

Rrusse11

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Starting to get a little nippy in the morning is it? You may indeed have one injector leaking down overnight.
Try a can of diesel purge before you start taking anything apart.
 

300D

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Maybe slight boost leak or turbo vanes not closing completely at start up
Brand spanking new VNT-15 turbo installed about 6 weeks ago. Boost graphed about two weeks ago and all looked good.
 

300D

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Long crank times + white smoke at startup usually equates to a leaking injector. Not always, but since it smells like raw diesel, white puff at startup, it's all that unburnt fuel getting pushed out the tail pipe.

With this, when the car is warm, you'll never have any symptoms. I know not many monitor any injector rail pressures in these cars, but if that drops after sitting, it's a tell-tale sign.

I would send those injectors out to be bench/flow tested.
Hm. Injectors were pop tested and set by diesel forward in Wisconsin in January. They mentioned the bodies were in especially good condition. I am thinking of actually going smaller on the injectors. So maybe I will pull these and run stock and see what the result is.
 

300D

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Starting to get a little nippy in the morning is it? You may indeed have one injector leaking down overnight.
Try a can of diesel purge before you start taking anything apart.
True. This is a low effort fix suggestion. I like it!
 

KrashDH

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Hm. Injectors were pop tested and set by diesel forward in Wisconsin in January. They mentioned the bodies were in especially good condition. I am thinking of actually going smaller on the injectors. So maybe I will pull these and run stock and see what the result is.
That could be, but if you got any spec of FOD in the body, causing any damage, or causing the injector to stick open, this could be your issue.

Def try the diesel purge first, it could knock something loose or out of there.
If that doesn't work I'm afraid the only way to rule out your injectors now is to have them flow tested.

You said you got them pop tested? Pop test doesn't equal flow test. Pop test ensures that they are firing at the right pressure. Flow testing checks flow/spray pattern. The latter will determine or rule out your issue related to injectors.
 

adjat84th

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Make sure you're timing is advanced enough!
If it's on the lower end of the graph, starting when cold (but not cold enough to trigger pre-glow from the glowplugs) will certainly not be as spunky. Mine fires almost immediately.
 

300D

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That could be, but if you got any spec of FOD in the body, causing any damage, or causing the injector to stick open, this could be your issue.

Def try the diesel purge first, it could knock something loose or out of there.
If that doesn't work I'm afraid the only way to rule out your injectors now is to have them flow tested.

You said you got them pop tested? Pop test doesn't equal flow test. Pop test ensures that they are firing at the right pressure. Flow testing checks flow/spray pattern. The latter will determine or rule out your issue related to injectors.
Will try this. Diesel Forward is the same outfit that sets up IDParts complete injectors that they sell. Respected business.
 

STDOUBT

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dos jettas
I don't know, but your post inspired me to visit a Haiku generator page...

Shining aurora
A little, tiny thought puff
whilst watching the smoke
~AI
 

300D

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2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 5-speed, 270K
I don't know, but your post inspired me to visit a Haiku generator page...

Shining aurora
A little, tiny thought puff
whilst watching the smoke
~AI
Shining stainless pipe
A little, tiny stink puff
whilst watching the smoke

Adjusted.
 

mk1chris

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mk1 golf with pd130 swap ,mk5 ppd 170 bmn daily
seen white smoke caused from one cylinder being down on compression before ,although you could hear it slightly in exhaust note at same time was one puff of smoke then cleared with other 3 cylinders firing
 

Rrusse11

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Before you get too carried away, consider this. The pop part is ez, you'll be able to see the mist pattern and atomisation of the fuel. I've been told that Franko6 checks flow by doing 10 pumps and then measures the result in a graduated beaker. You'll be able to see the 2 stage "pops" at the gauge, IIRC the ALH injectors are set at 220/300 bar. Adjusting/
replacing the springs and shims can get a little tricky to get the right points of release, and getting the springs and hardened shims from Bosch are the stumbling block.

You do NOT need thousands of $s worth of digital equipment to do this stuff. For a guy who managed to swap an engine outside in a Maine winter, I reckon this'll be a piece of cake. Do try the diesel purge first but.

For me, I've got a Mom & Pop diesel shop about 15 minutes down the road that does instals a set of nozzles for $120.
 

300D

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Before you get too carried away, consider this. The pop part is ez, you'll be able to see the mist pattern and atomisation of the fuel. I've been told that Franko6 checks flow by doing 10 pumps and then measures the result in a graduated beaker. You'll be able to see the 2 stage "pops" at the gauge, IIRC the ALH injectors are set at 220/300 bar. Adjusting/
replacing the springs and shims can get a little tricky to get the right points of release, and getting the springs and hardened shims from Bosch are the stumbling block.

You do NOT need thousands of $s worth of digital equipment to do this stuff. For a guy who managed to swap an engine outside in a Maine winter, I reckon this'll be a piece of cake. Do try the diesel purge first but.

For me, I've got a Mom & Pop diesel shop about 15 minutes down the road that does instals a set of nozzles for $120.
Thanks for the props! I feel like last winters under the tarp engine swap was a weird dream I had. Surprisingly nice memories though. Weird right?

As for doing the pop testing, still no shop. I am hoping to build a barn/garage/office/shop space next year. And my time is short at the moment so I think I might just send them out to get tested. Going to do the purge, see what that does, also might swap in the stock ones to see what difference that makes. I know it might be sacrilege to say, but I have way more power right now than I need! Kind of curious as to the difference of just the nozzle size. I seriously fell down the upgrade hole without even really trying.
 

Rrusse11

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300D,
Well the mistake I made was .230 Wuzetems with my 11mm pump, should've gone for .216s. Even with the IQ set around
8 I can get a bit of black smoke if I punch it, particularly if the revs are <2k. And my FE is ~39/43, not very good by most people's standards, but wow, does this baby run! So I don't fuss to much about it, and yes, I tend to drive it faster than
I need to. Power is great when towing though, I get around 32mpg with my 1200# teardrop doing 65-70, hills? np.
My bet is the purge will fix your problem, which is realistically pretty minor.
 

jmodge

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You can always send them back to Diesel Forward. No matter who sets them up, there is always the possibility of some matter making it’s way in there. From what I understand they have the Bosch equipment for testing and calibration
 

300D

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You can always send them back to Diesel Forward. No matter who sets them up, there is always the possibility of some matter making it’s way in there. From what I understand they have the Bosch equipment for testing and calibration
I might. They are a sharp outfit. They do the full check and adjustment. Going to try diesel purge first, then do a swap to stock just as a test to see what I like in terms of power and smoke. 11mm pump, .205s, stage 3 tune, IQ set to around 7.5 and she still smokes much more than I want.
 

jmodge

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I am set up the same. My Firad’s do the same under full pedal. Who’s tune do you have? If I turn up the fuel it makes crazy off idle power and will reach 5000 rpm and keep going, have to back pedal
 

300D

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I am set up the same. My Firad’s do the same under full pedal. Who’s tune do you have? If I turn up the fuel it makes crazy off idle power and will reach 5000 rpm and keep going, have to back pedal
Rocketchip. And I have tried communicating with him to figure out a path to less smoke, but after initially just telling me to raise the IQ number, he no longer responds to any communication. Oh well. And same here, if I set the IQ around 3-4, I will blow my not strong enough clutch to high heaven. I will stick a south bend in there at some point to accommodate, but I really want minimal to no smoke. I am thinking of testing out the way that IndigoBlueWagon has his setup. Nozzles that are a hair bigger than stock, and a bit more air with a pd150 intake. I like the idea of getting the air and fuel to match so that there is no wasted fuel.
 

300D

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I am set up the same. My Firad’s do the same under full pedal. Who’s tune do you have? If I turn up the fuel it makes crazy off idle power and will reach 5000 rpm and keep going, have to back pedal
Maybe it’s the Firads? My smoke under acceleration is not pure black either. Grey like. Which I think is unburnt fuel. But with that said, driving a bit backed off and I got 45.3mpg on my last tank.
 

jmodge

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Ditto, that was my original thought some years ago, but was persuaded otherwise, I would probably go that route if I were to do it again. I don’t think the Firad 502’s are a good match with a small turbo
 

jmodge

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Sounds real familiar
 

300D

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Sounds real familiar
The plan is to swap the nozzles back to stock, which I still have, as well as to a borrowed ecu that has stage three for stock nozzles. Will be super interesting to straight compare just the nozzle sizes.
 

jmodge

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Looking forward to the outcome, hope you still have your tarp in case the weather turns
 

300D

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I just wanted to update this thread. I adjusted the timing up a bit on the graph to about 62, raised the IQ up to 8, and then just continued to just drive them as they were installed. The tiny puff of white smoke went away. I think it was the timing being a bit low, which resulted in an extra crank. With the timing up, the car starts quicker and zero smoke. Even starting at 25 degrees F and no frostheater plugged in. And to top it all off, car got about 6 straight tanks of 45+mpg without even setting foot on a single highway. So with that all said, I decided to swap them out. I am a bit crazy time, I know. Peter at IDParts(IndigoBlueWagon) texted me that he had a brand new shipment of Bosios in and I bought a set of PP357s. I know, it's heresy that I decided to downsize my nozzles. It's just that last year I had a chance to take his IBW for a spin and I thought it was freaking perfect. He has got the PP357s and a stage III. The Firads in combination with everything else(11mm pump, Rocketchip stage III, 2.5" turbo back exhaust) were just more power than I ever need or want. My stock clutch would just spin even under about half throttle. So, the Firads came out and the PP357s went in. The power is still as much as I ever want, and the MPG's have gone up. Still on my first tank, but 460 miles at 1/2 has me hopeful. Previously I was usually at 420 or so.

Anyway, I have posted the injectors with the Firads installed on the classifieds forum. A member referenced this thread and wrote that I was trying to offload leaking injectors. I would never do something like that. Never. They work flawlessly. I will back this up by offering them with a money back gaurantee. Buy them, install them, and if you find that they are not working correctly, I will take them back and refund your money.

So, there, thread updated. I hope everyone is staying healthy and safe. Best to you all.
 
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