This Can't Be Good ... Take a look ....

craig01b

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2004
Location
Guelph, Ontario.
TDI
None
Seems like you are well in hand...dropping the engine out is not really difficult...big job, but easier than doing a timing belt in situ. Cross your fingers, hedge your bets, and carry on...best of luck!
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
The van-gogh fix won't work by itself in this case since it doesn't fully transfer the load off of that ear of the block. It more or less provides support for the threads of the bolt through the broken ear while the tab on the block is still bearing most of the load.. It would have to be used along with another support on the rear of the block..
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Can some of the old school guys comment here...what if he were to try and braze this? Would the heat warp the cylinder? Of course it would require removal and disassembly of the engine.
 

1854sailor

Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Location
Westerly, RI
TDI
2015 Golf SE SportWagen, 2015 Golf SE Hatch Back.
Brazing, or even welding with the proper process and filler metal, would work to seal the broken piece back on to the block. However, I would not trust the repair structurally because of the change in the metallurgy of the cast iron block in the heat affected zone of the weld.
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
Beginning the repairs ...

... So after looking at the VanGogh solution, I am seriously thinking about repairing this busted up block. It will take a custom version that will leverage the other unused mount points on the back of the block.

I've found some bonding products specifically designed for bonding metals (Belzona 1111 and 1221, Enecon Duralloy, Devcon). I believe even JBWeld would suffice.

Key to this will be ensuring that the surfaces are absolutely clean. There can't be much internal pressure put on this, and as long as the modified VanGogh mount doesn't come in contact with the repaired corner of the engine block, it should be just fine.

What do ya think guys ?

jwp
So .... as I mentioned a while ago, I've decided to attempt a repair. Here are some photos of the ear shortly after the JB Weld started setting up ... I've removed both of the original mount holes from the 'ear' because this piece is essentially just sealing off the exposed oil channel.



I left a little stub so I could prop the piece in place until it set up ...



and another ...



I am currently doing some further investigations around the VanGogh repair kit from Dieselgeek.com, to see if one of his brackets will work for my application. I'll inquire to determine if one will work, or if I'll have to come up with my own design ...

Still LOTS of work to do ...

jwp
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
The Dieselgeek BRM VanGogh bracket should work fine in this application, assuming that the crankcase is sealed off to keep the oil in and debris and water out. It has a lot of triangulation with the bottom 8mm bolt and backside 10mm bolt. You will have to use an 8mm washer that's about .075" thick at the bottom hole since we built the bracket to lay on top of an exhaust bracket in the BRM of that thickness. Contact me during biz hours to discuss this if you need to.

I had one ALH driver use a BRM VG a couple of weeks ago and he had to shorten the blue bolt in the picture to clear the cold side of the turbo. (He didn't want to remove the turbo or cold side of the housing.) I recommend doing anything necessary to use the bolt at the standard length as I supply it.



The BRM VG bracket does fit all MK4 engines including ALH and BEW. The turbo on the ALH and BEW comes very close to the bracket and this means you have to remove either the cold side of the turbo or the whole exhaust manifold with turbo to bolt it on with the standard 25mm long blue bolt in the picture. (This is the reason I cannot sell one bracket for all engines.) The BRM turbo is not close to the rear 10mm hole so on the BRM this VG bracket just bolts on after the EGR cooler is removed.

The specific VanGogh brackets for the ALH and BEW are simple bolt on brackets and can be installed with the engine and turbo in place.
 
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rocketeer928

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Location
Enfield, Connecticut
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
This will stop me from procrastinating ordering the VanGogh to fix my 13mm broken ear before things get worse! Also Diesel Geek just dropped the price 10 bucks BTW. Wish this is all it would take to fix yours!
Jim at Dieselgeek has told me that for the ALH, the VanGogh can also be for preventative measures too, and I've also been procrastinating. After seeing the above and 50,000 before my next TB job, I would say it's time for me to get under my engine to measure the thickness of my ear (13 mm or 20 mm???), assuming it's still there, make an order, and install. I would say the price is decent insurance for my relatively young engine.

It really stinks about the OPs engine...
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
Just for the record I don't suggest that the ALH/BEW VanGogh is necessary as a preventative measure. If you are careful when you torque the horizontal engine mount bolts during a timing belt job you should never break an ear off. We have heard of many cases of block failure just after a timing belt was replaced so use new engine mount bolts and torque them carefully! The only other cause of broken ears is a solid front end accident. They usually don't show up until the car has been back on the road after being fixed.

The BRM VanGogh cannot be used before the engine is broken. It was only designed to fit when some of the block around the upper rear bolt hole was gone.
 
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jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
Jim .... Thank you very much for the quick reply. I look forward to talking to you tomorrow.

jwp
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
I spoke with Jim at DieselGeek who assured me the BRM bracket would work for my application ... it arrived about a week ago and I spent some time yesterday putting her back together.

Jim ... I did opt to shorten the blue bolt as you had mentioned one of your other customers had done. Below are a couple of pics of the kit as received and the shortening of the blue bolt, to show how much (couple of threads) I had to remove.



Kit as shipped by Jim ... notice special spacer for my ALH application ... worked perfectly Jim ;o)



I shortened the blue bolt by a couple of threads in order to avoid removing the turbo. Jim highly recommended that the extra time and effort be taken to remove the turbo and use the bolt as he provided. I chose this route ...



Jim ... notice the lower bolt is NOT the one you shipped? The one you provided bottomed out in the mounting hole ... it was a tad too long. I had another that was just a bit shorter with a built-in washer and opted to use that.



Shot showing the VanGogh device in place, not interfering whatsoever with my patched up broken 'ear' ...



Another shot with the engine mount bracket in place. I am pretty confident this is going to work quite nicely :)



Another angle ...

Finally have the motor mount reinstalled ... makin' progress, slow but sure. Thanks Jim, at DieselGeek.com :)

jwp
 
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greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Ouch. Van Gogh isn't going to fix this - that is for when you break the ear off the block. You can see the ear is still intact on the mount....it just took off a large chunk of block with it. Bummer dude.
My apologies for this post. I have never applied nor seen the BRM Van Gogh until you posted a picture.
 
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jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
... No problem

Nick,

... No apology required. Thanks for taking the time to read through my thread and commenting :)

jwp
 

GIDDY_UP_GO

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Location
Indiana
TDI
10 Jetta 13 Beetle Convertible 15 GSW
WOW! What a story, I read the entire thread. My son just turned 16 today and has his permit, will get his license in June. I am constantly telling him to slow down on the county roads when he is driving my 02 TDI Beetle. (Wife already put a hole in one oil pan)

Anyways, congrats on your fix. Nothing like putting a (Supposedly) ruined car or engine back together yourself. Its a great feeling!
 

Keith_J

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Location
West
TDI
2000 Jetta MT
Excellent work there JWP. That new Van Gogh kit looks beautiful, your grinding and JB Weld job should work just fine.
 

where2

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 1999
Location
North Palm Beach, FL, USA
TDI
One '13 JSW_TDI & One '04 Variant_TDI
Having been inside a few watercooled VW engines, I was amazed and disheartened when I saw the catastrophic damage in the first photos. Kudos to Corrado_TDI, and the OP for putting this one back on the road.

I never expected the JB-Weld and a bracket like that.

As a side note to the OP, I wish the back side of my engine was that clean. I was back under there today, and mine is filthy. Are you shooting those pictures with the side splash guard removed?
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
Look ... no subframe

.... Are you shooting those pictures with the side splash guard removed?
Oh yes ... the splash guard and MUCH MUCH more ... you should see how easy it is to get at things with the subframe removed :) Here's one of the shots I took a while ago.



I suppose the back of the engine can get pretty messy, especially if a CV boot breaks.

jwp
 

Dodoma

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
TDI
2002 Jetta White
did you try J-B Weld to patch the crack to stop the leak? J-B claims that it can be done. Try that first. If that does not work, there are plenty complete 02 TDI engines selling for betweem 2-3k. There is German person by the name Thomas who import low mileage engines from Germany and his company is located in Ontario, CA. He ships these engines all over the country. To avoid such damages, see if VW can have the car raised few inches. Frankly, these cars are low and tend to scrap bottom when driven fast over bumps.
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
did you try J-B Weld to patch the crack to stop the leak? J-B claims that it can be done. Try that first .....
I did ... and I think it's going to work just fine. Check post #36 of this thread ... I posted some pictures there.

jwp
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
Keith J ... GIDDY ... runonbeer ... just wanted to say thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll keep posting as I make more progress.

Off to bed and back to work tomorrow ... jwp
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
Almost There ....

So here's the latest pic from today, after locating a replacement bumper cover. It'll need a coat of paint but I kinda like the blue/silver scheme :)



Here's a picture early on during the repairs ...



... and an engine bay picture from today ...



My brother came out to help this past Saturday and we actually started her up for the first time since October 16th. It fired right up but developed a nasty noise that started out to be intermittent, then was constant. Turns out it was just the power steering pump that needed to be purged of air bubbles. After figuring that out, it quieted down right nicely.

I should have replaced the lower radiator hose after seeing that it took a minor hit during the crash. It did leak slowly. So once the new hose arrives this coming thursday, I should have it on the road for the first test drive.

I haven't reset the airbag light yet either. Need to figure out if resetting the code is all that is necessary, or if I have to replace the airbag controller itself with one that has NOT been set off and deployed bags in a previous incident.

Will update again after test driving this week ... :D

jwp
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
HUGE day today !!

Well today was a huge day for me ... the first drive after repairing the busted up engine block shown in the first post :):)

Here are a couple of pictures from this morning (we had about 8 inches of snow here last night, a little north of Pittsburgh).

Tough to tell from the pic, but it's sitting their idling after my 2nd trip around the block.





It warmed up nicely ... handled and steered well after a complete replacement of the subframe and steering rack assembly.

I did discover that the driver's side seat belt is locked up .. more than likely due to the airbags going off. Will be looking for a replacement one ... already have some feelers out ;O)

Any recommendations on seat belts for me?

John
 
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Jedda03SGP

Active member
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
Glenshaw PA
TDI
2003 Jetta
J-Bird, ya done me proud boy !! Way to go! That IS quite an accomplishment. I know who to call when I have a run in with any object that impedes my progress, if ya know what I mean. It didn't tend toward any curbs on your test drive did it ??!!!

That is great !! We'll paint 'er up in the spring some time.

Steve and Cory
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
Yeebie ...

Ha ... I thought you looked fermiliar :)

Thanks for all your help last weekend. Nope ... it didn't gravitate towards any curbs on my first test drive !

Later

J
 

1854sailor

Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Location
Westerly, RI
TDI
2015 Golf SE SportWagen, 2015 Golf SE Hatch Back.
VanGogh will only work if the ears are broken off. jpw's block has an open oil channel. Sorry Man! You need a new block.
Congratulations, John! As you can see above, I was an early naysayer :eek:, but I've been following this thread, and I am impressed by your repair, and your perseverance. Great job!
 

jwp175

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Baden, PA
TDI
2002 & 2010 Jetta
1854Sailor,

Thanks for hanging in there with me. The pics posted earlier in the thread of the JBWeld holding the 'ear' in place came out pretty clear. And that wasn't the ONLY thing I made use of the JBWeld for :)

Let me know if there's anything else you were interested in seeing regarding the repairs ...

Take care .... John
 
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