Thinking about upgrading to 2015 tdi

swoyekr

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Jul 1, 2019
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PA
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2006 Jetta
Hello all,

I'm sorry if this is not the right place, but trying to get some input on a new daily driver. I currently have an MK6 tdi golf and I've come to the realization that I don't love the dsg as much as I would a manual. I also would like to move to a wagon platform. I'm considering a TDI wagon, or possibly a newer year with sportmotion. I'm a little nervous about the longevity on the mk7's, TDI or Gas. Can anyone share some input? If I buy a TDI it would likely go on a weight loss plan but the warranties on them seem to be significantly longer. So I guess I really have two questions... I drive mostly highway miles to and from work about an hour.

  1. Any known major issues with the 2015 tdi equipped cars that would concern you in going this route or do you wish you'd have gone newer with gas?
  2. I'm aware of the mk6 issues, i'm assuming mk7 vehicles have similar issues from time to time?
  3. Any experience with the gas model to compare?

Thanks in advance. I did do a bit of searching but couldn't seem to find a direct comparison etc.
 

Lightflyer1

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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
If you aren't short tripping it and are aware of the emissions/warranty specifics and willing to do what that takes, then I would go for it. I have read here that the CVCA engine cars seem to be doing better (failure wise) than the others.
 

hskrdu

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Maryland and New England
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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
We skipped the Mk6 because of several key issues, which have not seemed to impact the Mk7.

These threads linked in the this thread may be helpful. Lots more with a search:
These threads might be helpful:
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Some thoughts/observations on the A7 Golf:

In some respects, the cheapening of cars has finally hit the ubiquitous Golf on the seventh generation. Not as obvious as what happened with the NCS Jetta in 2011 (and to some extent the NMS Passat), but still there. I'd say it went a step back towards the A4 Golf. Which, really, is not necessarily a bad thing, since I personally feel that generation out of all of them seemed to have hit the sweet spot for longevity, serviceability, and mostly excellent engines. The A7 went back to the conventional style compliance bushings pressed into stamped steel control arms, attached to a stamped steel subframe, and with the diesels, also went back to a twist beam type rear axle (although they no longer employ the offset track correcting rear axle bushings that the A2, A3, and A5 cars used... but more the straight on type the A1 and all the FWD B cars used through the B5).

The A7 also got all new HVAC, this time courtesy of Denso instead of long-time supplier Valeo. Is this good or bad? Can't say. Foam doors disintegrating may no longer be a thing, but evaporator core failure might (our shop has replaced more Toyota (Denso) evap cores this year alone than I have ever seen on any VAG product ever combined). Cabin filters are a little easier, though.

The 2015-only (for us, due to VAG's butthurtedness over Dieselgate and withdrawing any diesels from our showrooms despite selling them still in Europe and elsewhere) means we got the first, and last, of that new engine. So any improvements that are bound to happen after that first year, we'll never see. So, we are stuck with 1999.5 stuff all over again in a sense. However, I've not seen the warranty-gulping issues with the CVCA and CRUA engines (the 2015s) that we've seen, and continue to see, with the previous 4 cyl CR TDIs. But they are a frightfully complicated engine. The cooling system has got to have more hoses and clamps than any engine in any car that I've ever worked on... and I've worked on some doozies... like twin turbo Audi V6s and V8s and stuff. Saving grace here is, the transverse layout makes the whole powertrain relatively easy to remove for anything major, and of course the front of all modern VAG cars comes completely off with relative ease. So while the engine itself is absurdly complicated, at least getting to most things isn't so bad.

The EA888 engines, the 2.0L and later 1.8L variants of the direct injected turbo gas engines are not something I would recommend. They have a lot of fragile short lived things on them, and nothing is especially inexpensive or quick to do. The stupid plastic water pumps alone, which rarely last as long as a TDI's t-belt interval, cost more than a TDI t-belt to repair, and it isn't like there is some schedule to them. They just FAIL, and coolant is gushing out from under the car.

The 1.4L turbo gas engine is great so far. Peppy, frugal, happy to run on regular gas.... but these are rare in the Golf, and I've never seen one bolted to a manual in one, only the NCS Jetta and now the newer fugly Jetta. But that engine is a good match to the 8sp Aisin alushbox they use with it, and they'll tap into TDI territory for fuel economy (45+) under the right conditions. Not sure if the A7 Golf variant ever got the 1.4L. Never seen one, anyway.

The A7 TDI uses SCR, so you'll have that whole extra system to deal with. If it remains just filling the DEF tank every service or so, that is no big deal. And they wisely placed the DEF fill next to the fuel fill. But it is a system with lots of parts, and any part of that system that fails can mean anything from reduced power to a no-restart due to shut down. I don't like that, to be honest. I don't want to not be able to drive the car just because some $300 gizmo that may or may not be on some indefinite global backorder has failed.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
Awesome recap from OH.

The A7 / Mk7 GSW got the 1.4T in 2019 (the 4Motion versions and Alltrack still received the 1.8T), and in S form could be had with a 6M. Not sure if the 6M was available on the SE or SEL, maybe in CAN? I unsuccessfully suggested this car for a family member as an alternative to an Outback. I drove a 2019 Jetta 1.4T as a rental (auto trans) for 1000 miles and the MFD indicated 45.5 and 48.0 mpg (95%highway), with pen and paper closer to 42mpg. I liked the engine, didn't love the Jetta.

Honestly, I like the 2015 GSW better than the previous generation beyond the engine differences, and (with a few exceptions), prefer the interior and overall experience.
 

swoyekr

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PA
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2006 Jetta
Thanks for the replies, I did see that there's a pretty attractively priced 2019 near me with the 1.4, but it doesn't have the AWD 4motion and that was kind of a turnoff for me. But, some of the issues noted above are less than stellar. lol back to square one in my search I suppose.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've owned MKIII, IV, V, VI and VII Jettas or Golfs. My favorite by far is still the MKIV, but I have a '15 Golf that's basically waiting for my ALH to die. I'm starting to think that my son is going to get it because it appears (and I may prefer) to keep the MKIV running forever.

I agree with oilhammers comments on the de-contenting of the VII, and on the complexity of the drivetrain, which honestly worries me. We (IDParts) were adding coolant hoses for MKVIIs to our catalog recently, and even some of the hoses are crazy complicated. But as oilhammer has said, these engines seem less failure prone than the CJAAs in the VIs. And I never warmed up to my VI Golf, although I do kind of wish I'd kept it, mostly because it was a Germany assembled 2 door manual. Not a common item anymore.

I have been looking for a VII for my son, as his ALH is approaching 500K miles and he (unlike me) doesn't want another ALH. I understand that, as silver MKIV Golfs (2 of them) are all he's ever driven since getting his license 14 years ago. I'm keeping my eyes open for either a MKVII TDI or a 1.4L manual. Those are rare, and the 1.4L 4 motion is even less common. If you find one grab it.
 

swoyekr

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There's a nice white 1.4L around but I think the selling point of the gasser for me was the 4motion, if it doesn't have that I don't know if I'd want to pass on the diesel for it. Thanks for the insight, this has been very helpful. And thanks, you've supplied me a number of parts for my mk6 tdi golf, a great little car but too small for my growing family.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
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I thought (for NA) all Mk7 4Motion cars were equipped with the 1.8?

You can get a GSW 4Motion with a stick (only on the S model), but I'd rather have Nokians and FWD and keep the 1.4 than the 4Motion and the 1.8.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I thought (for NA) all Mk7 4Motion cars were equipped with the 1.8?

You can get a GSW 4Motion with a stick (only on the S model), but I'd rather have Nokians and FWD and keep the 1.4 than the 4Motion and the 1.8.
4mo GSW or Alltrack all had 1.8t 2017-2019.

For the US, the 2019 Alltracks had 6MT offered in S SE and SEL. All 4mo autos were DSG, kinda detuned golf R with a bigger boot.

After owning a mk5 tdi and now a mk7 4mo tsi, I miss the 600mile tanks and low end grunt that I always enjoy when driving the wifes car. The interior is nicer on the Mk7 but is a blance between cheapening out and perceived qulaity.

The 1.8t TSI while may not be able to pound down trouble free miles of the TDI, it is a nice little mill once the revs are up and can be quite a sleeper with a turbo upgrade. Currently have an IS20 form a GTI in it with APR tune, life above 3K all the way up to red line can be enjoyable about 100hp over stock. Knock on wood no major issues in the mill, i did have the stock is12 wastegate electronic actuator motor failed but I was already tuned and had the turbo upgrade ready and its a common issue. I'll prob be due for a water pump which is DIYable for around $600 in parts these days.

As for mpg and 4mo just forget it, tune or no tune, it just plan stinks compared to many other CUV AWD cars, you can squeeze 32-33mpg on long road trips, but anything above 70mph just zapps the economy, stuggle to hit 30mpg. Around town the haldex also zaps the economy and 25-28mph is way more common. While the TDI always is able to beat the EPA esitmates, id have to say the TSI is spot on.

A 1.4t and proper set of snow tires is well well worth the investment vs the 4mo.
 

Nickmk7

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Mk7.5 GTI SE DSG 2002 Jetta TDI GLS M/T
I have a 2015 golf tdi sel manual that may be for sale soon. 48k miles...
 

swoyekr

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I thought (for NA) all Mk7 4Motion cars were equipped with the 1.8?

You can get a GSW 4Motion with a stick (only on the S model), but I'd rather have Nokians and FWD and keep the 1.4 than the 4Motion and the 1.8.
You like the 1.4 that much better? I confirmed there's a 1.4 4motion available locally. It's a non-alltrack which I like and manual. The seats and such I'm not overly worried about I can upgrade that over time from salvage yard parts available. I feel like I'd be leaving alot of performance on the table by not getting the 1.8, as the 1.4 seems to be more for the daily driver situation. I was hoping to build something with some pep, but I don't know enough about these newer cars to know if I'm off base. Reading everything above the 1.8 does seem like a gamble, yet the 1.4 ,might be a bit of a dog?
 

hskrdu

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I'd give them a call and confirm the engine mated to that 4Motion (or have them take a pic).

If I was going to get a gasser, I'd get the 1.4T, without question. That's based primarily on FE and reliability, the former is reasonably assured, the latter is based on only a few years of data. For me, the 1.8/2.0 series is an engine you keep for 60k miles and then strongly consider moving on, which is not my style (my 2003 ALH is still purring). I'm also a VW fan (even more so after a driving a different rental car every month for a decade), so that pulls me towards the 1.4T, rather than other gasser options.

Keep in mind, that if your criteria or priorities are different, then perhaps you'll arrive at different conclusions. I'm looking at FE, reliability and longevity, cost of ownership, ease of maintenance, etc. The 1.4T certainly has less pep, but that's low on my list (and it was surprisingly quick in the Jetta).

Part of my criteria is my experience and opinion on 4Motion. It's a fine system for what it is, but the clearance of the regular GSW prohibits use in many of the areas where 4Motion might be more useful, and a FWD drive car with top notch snow tires will do as well or better in the vast majority of snowy situations. AWD/4WD is a more useful item in vehicles with more clearance, or that are designed to be used in areas where driving conditions are outside of typical. A good driver with a stick shift can handle rain and snow, and the standard suite of ESP/ASR etc. software is fairly adept at helping the driver. I'm in MD now, but my input is based on New England, upstate NY, the Midwest, and the Sierra Nevadas. The 4Motion GSW isn't lifted like the Alltrack, so all you are adding in the non-Alltrack GSW is the AWD system, which also increases cost of ownership and maintenance time. I'd also only go for the 4Motion with a stick, which means S model, and although there are some positives to that (no leaking pano sunroof), it means additional time and money to make the car into how I'd want it.

As for the 1.8 vs 1.4, much of that will be based on your criteria and preference. (The daily driver is almost always what I'm looking for). The 1.4 is 147/184?, the 1.8 is 170/199? Is that big enough a difference to deal with the issues of the 1.8? Tuning probably exists for both, but I can't speak to that. It sounds like you have some plans in place already, so that will impact your view. I've only driven that 1.4 in a Jetta (three different times), so perhaps it will feel slower in a GSW, but I happily drove an unmodified ALH for 200,000 miles before going up one size in nozzles. Would I tune a 1.8 when I'm getting nervous about it at 60k miles? I wouldn't.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
4mo GSW or Alltrack all had 1.8t 2017-2019.

For the US, the 2019 Alltracks had 6MT offered in S SE and SEL. All 4mo autos were DSG, kinda detuned golf R with a bigger boot.

After owning a mk5 tdi and now a mk7 4mo tsi, I miss the 600mile tanks and low end grunt that I always enjoy when driving the wifes car. The interior is nicer on the Mk7 but is a blance between cheapening out and perceived qulaity.

The 1.8t TSI while may not be able to pound down trouble free miles of the TDI, it is a nice little mill once the revs are up and can be quite a sleeper with a turbo upgrade. Currently have an IS20 form a GTI in it with APR tune, life above 3K all the way up to red line can be enjoyable about 100hp over stock. Knock on wood no major issues in the mill, i did have the stock is12 wastegate electronic actuator motor failed but I was already tuned and had the turbo upgrade ready and its a common issue. I'll prob be due for a water pump which is DIYable for around $600 in parts these days.

As for mpg and 4mo just forget it, tune or no tune, it just plan stinks compared to many other CUV AWD cars, you can squeeze 32-33mpg on long road trips, but anything above 70mph just zapps the economy, stuggle to hit 30mpg. Around town the haldex also zaps the economy and 25-28mph is way more common. While the TDI always is able to beat the EPA esitmates, id have to say the TSI is spot on.

A 1.4t and proper set of snow tires is well well worth the investment vs the 4mo.
Good insights.
Was I accurate about the 6M for the GSW with 4Motion being S trim only?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
I would not badge the 1.4L turbo engine as "slow" by any means. It gets the job done surprisingly well in my opinion. Probably peppier than any of the other 1.3L-1.5L turbo 4 gassers of any of the other manufacturers.... and it is downright zippy in the few Jetta Hybrids. Those are a great car powertrain wise, the car itself is pretty lackluster.

I have an AWD B5, and it is a hoot in the snow, but I agree that my FWD Passat with snow tires isn't going to get stuck easily, and ground clearance would be the same had I not lifted the 4Mo car slightly with rough road springs.

And yeah, the 4Mo 1.8t (the good one, belt driven, 1/4 million miles and climbing, never been apart) is a [premium] gas guzzler. Tops out at maybe 23-25 where the FWD TDI gets 38-40 with ease. Both have RC1 tune, but the TDI pulls like the space shuttle in comparison, on the highway it still reigns supreme. But the older VAG gassers had shorter gearing, the new ones not so much. That helps.

If I were going to put up with the looming EA888 engine fails, I'd step up to an Audi. The A4 Alltrack is pretty sweet. I think they are all 8sp ZF automatics but the newest ones may be the longitudinal DSG now.
 
Last edited:

swoyekr

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PA
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2006 Jetta
The 1.8 seems like an interesting option, tons of aftermarket support and lots of people modding them without failure. But The longevity from this post has me concerned. No issues with the 1.4 for a daily, I guess I was hoping to have something I could tinker with a few mods and remain reliable to work and home.
 

hskrdu

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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
We have a reasonable amount of posts here on the 1.4 and the EA888 1.8 (not the same as the old 1.8), so a search might provide you more info. Here's one:
 

swoyekr

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Location
PA
TDI
2006 Jetta
We have a reasonable amount of posts here on the 1.4 and the EA888 1.8 (not the same as the old 1.8), so a search might provide you more info. Here's one:
thank you sir. This has all been helpful, time to keep digging on my own. Appreciate the feedback
 

740GLE

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NH
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You like the 1.4 that much better? I confirmed there's a 1.4 4motion available locally. It's a non-alltrack which I like and manual. The seats and such I'm not overly worried about I can upgrade that over time from salvage yard parts available. I feel like I'd be leaving alot of performance on the table by not getting the 1.8, as the 1.4 seems to be more for the daily driver situation. I was hoping to build something with some pep, but I don't know enough about these newer cars to know if I'm off base. Reading everything above the 1.8 does seem like a gamble, yet the 1.4 ,might be a bit of a dog?
Confirmed how?

1.4t 4mo in the US aren't a thing, are you trusting a dealer website claim?

You know anyone can put a 4mo badge on a 1.4t and claim its a 4mo ;)
 

740GLE

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Good insights.
Was I accurate about the 6M for the GSW with 4Motion being S trim only?
I think you were right, in the US For 2017 when we were cross shopping 4Mo units, I think GSW 4mo were pretty well stripped, VWoA wanted people to jump up to the Alltrack even for fake leather and fogs.

For 2019 the last run of wagens, i forget if they offered a GWS 4mo in SE/SEL with 6MT, in the US. Canada got all the trims 6mt or DSG.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I think all manual 4-motion Golfs (Not Alltrack) were 5 speed. I believe the FWD cars were 6 speeds.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Speaking of 4Mo.... I had a 2017 Golf R in here yesterday, water pump housing blew before it even hit 40k miles.... and as of yet there is no aluminum upgraded ones for these newer EA888 engines. Over a grand job to fix it, and it'll break again. And somehow they made getting to these worse than on the older ones, which by now I've gotten quite good at.

Electronic thermostat.... really, Volkswagen? Sheesh....
 

hskrdu

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I think all manual 4-motion Golfs (Not Alltrack) were 5 speed. I believe the FWD cars were 6 speeds.
Why would VW mate the 1.8 with 4Motion to a 6M in the Alltrack, but mate the 1.8 with 4Motion to a 5M in the GSW? That seems odd. The Alltrack is heavier, and higher, but that's about it, right?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Because I believe the Alltrack has the fancy front LSD (like the R) and those are only made for the 6sp manual. The regular 4Mo car does not have that, it just has the simple PTO transfer box like (I assume) the rest-of-the-world cars use.

Never been under one that was not the Alltrack, though, so I am not 100% sure.
 

hskrdu

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Because I believe the Alltrack has the fancy front LSD (like the R) and those are only made for the 6sp manual. The regular 4Mo car does not have that, it just has the simple PTO transfer box like (I assume) the rest-of-the-world cars use.

Never been under one that was not the Alltrack, though, so I am not 100% sure.
Super interesting! I tried to check some pictures of cars available online, but there are so few 4Motion GSW's with a stick. I found one, but it looks like the shift knob has a 6speed pattern (hard to see).
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
You can always check by VIN. Just call a dealer parts' department and have them look up the gearbox code.

While there are plenty of AWD SUVs/CUVs around here, AWD cars are not super common. But I have lately seen a few AWD badges on some Mazda 3s, a Camry here and there, and now Altimas. I like this, because in my mind it means at least someone is bucking the SUV/CUV trend, despite needing or wanting AWD for whatever reason.

The downside to this is of course the ground clearance is still going to be limiting, and cars like the Camry and 3 and Altima sit very, very low to the ground. So any unplowed or not yet driven over snow is going to quickly pack up under the car and tear off fragile plastic bits. Which is something older cars didn't really struggle with as much, or at all.
 

Cuzoe

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Why would VW mate the 1.8 with 4Motion to a 6M in the Alltrack, but mate the 1.8 with 4Motion to a 5M in the GSW? That seems odd. The Alltrack is heavier, and higher, but that's about it, right?
Presumably the same "reason" the Mk7 Golf TDI gets a 6MT while the gasser Mk7 Golf's with manual got the 5 speed. I would expect it's just a matter of cost and in some cases (but not this one) power output. The GSW/Alltrack have about the same power output.

Because I believe the Alltrack has the fancy front LSD (like the R) and those are only made for the 6sp manual. The regular 4Mo car does not have that, it just has the simple PTO transfer box like (I assume) the rest-of-the-world cars use.

Never been under one that was not the Alltrack, though, so I am not 100% sure.
What fancy front LSD are you referring to? If you're talking about the VAQ (e-diff) that's on Mk7 GTI's with PP, and became standard on later GTI's... the Golf R does not have that. The VAQ helps the GTI put power down through corners, where the R would transfer power to the rear in similar situations.

It looks like the last of the GSW 4Mo's switched to the 6 speed manual. I don't know that there's much rhyme or reason. They mostly bolt right up, just a matter of what VW decided to stick on there. Over on Golfmk7 a few people with 5MT Golfs replaced them with 6MT's after wrecking the 5MT on track.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
The R has a different looking power take off box that what the other transverse AWD cars use (it is not the GTI thing, which is FWD only, I know what that is). At least, it is different than what a Tiguan, Q3, A3, or non-RS TT has. But I think the RS3 and the TT-RS uses it too. I'm not underneath enough of them often enough to keep track, though. Still trying to keep track of what the longitudinal cars have, as they've had changes of late as well (there are two different DSGs that replaced the ZF sourced automatics).
 

hskrdu

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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
Presumably the same "reason" the Mk7 Golf TDI gets a 6MT while the gasser Mk7 Golf's with manual got the 5 speed. I would expect it's just a matter of cost and in some cases (but not this one) power output. The GSW/Alltrack have about the same power output.

It looks like the last of the GSW 4Mo's switched to the 6 speed manual. I don't know that there's much rhyme or reason.
But having different transmissions for the TDI vs the TSI makes sense, given other differences and goals.
As I look online, I see only 6MTs with the GSW 4Motion. Are you sure there were GSW 4Motions with a 5M?
 

Cuzoe

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Los Angeles
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MK7 Golf S
Nope not sure. Was looking at a (clearly unreliable) site that showed 5MT up until switching to the 1.4. But looking at used car sites, all 6MT. Based on the prices I see... I'm not uninterested, haha.
 
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