They are penalizing early TDi buyers

[k1xv]

After reading all the crazy rants of people complaining that they were excluded from the program because they sold their cars before the scandal became public, or that they were being penalized for driving their cars 200,000 miles, I decided I should rant too.

I was an early buyer of the re-introduced TDi. As an 09 owner, I helped them launch this car into the market. Yet, compared to the Johnny Come Latelies who bought years later, after the car was proven, I am getting as much as $10,000 less, even though I drove my car less than many of them.

Not fair!! Being discriminated against!! Why am I penalized for being an early supporter of VW TDi common rail technology? If anything I should get a bonus!!

Not only that, but my Mark V is a better built car than those that followed. And yet we are being compensated the least!!

 

[MBQ]

Nice try.

Who's next?

 

[lance2214]

Nice try.

Who's next?

double thumbs up.....

 

[tjdeerslayer37]

? ? lol

 

[Conrad -JSW]

Here's your bonus...

Thanks for taking one for the team!

 

[C3156]

I feel your pain, lol

 

[HBarlow]

Your tongue in cheek whine makes more sense than many that are posted and angrily defended daily.

One of my favorites was the Canadian whiner who thought he should be eligible for a buy back under the US settlement because his car had originally been sold and registered in the US even though he is a Canadian citizen living in Canada and his TDI is registered in Canada.

"The love of money is the root of all evil" or something similar as the old saying goes.

 

[MHC48]

As an '09 owner with 121k miles, I got more years than later buyers of great mileage and torque, a few years of blissfully ignorant happiness that I was helping the environment, and a $3500 (LOL) clean fuel vehicle tax deduction and a $4k cash-for- clunkers trade in when I bought the car.

Oh, and a few weeks of not having to que up on gasoline lines and going straight to the diesel pump after Hurricane Sandy.

The only real thing I will be parting with when I turn mine in for $12,925 is the false halo I used to wear thinking I was helping the planet I'll eventually be leaving to my kids.

 

[sfpegasus]

Early adopter or not, $18,300 for my 7 year old TDI I paid $24,000 for seems to be a pretty good deal.

 

[740GLE]

Early adopter or not, $18,300 for my 7 year old TDI I paid $24,000 for seems to be a pretty good deal.

Says the person who never drove their TDI like as it was intended to.

Just imagine if I just parked my 2010 and turned it in with 5K miles on the clock!

 

[Lightflyer1]

Says the person who never drove their TDI like as it was intended to.
Just imagine if I just parked my 2010 and turned it in with 5K miles on the clock!

It wasn't built with the intention of it being driven a certain way, just to be sold for a profit. How and when and how much it should be driven is just an opinion and yours differs from others.

 

[sfpegasus]

Says the person who never drove their TDI like as it was intended to.

So what makes you the authority on how a vehicle should be driven?

For the record, I bought the vehicle because I was fascinated with the technology behind "clean diesel". Silly me. I never expected I would have to buy another car in my lifetime because I sincerely believed this thing would run forever. I planned on doing my 150K miles over several decades.

 

[grawk]

So what makes you the authority on how a vehicle should be driven?
For the record, I bought the vehicle because I was fascinated with the technology behind "clean diesel". Silly me. I never expected I would have to buy another car in my lifetime because I sincerely believed this thing would run forever. I planned on doing my 150K miles over several decades.

It could still do that. Get the fix if it becomes available, or turn down the money, and you can drive that car for decades.

 

[sfpegasus]

It could still do that. Get the fix if it becomes available, or turn down the money, and you can drive that car for decades.

I'll go back to my original statement:

Early adopter or not, $18,300 for my 7 year old TDI I paid $24,000 for seems to be a pretty good deal.

 

[grawk]

But that $18,300 won't get you a car that will do what your 7 year old TDI will do after 15 more years of ownership.

 

[Debra Morgan]

I have a black car and I have not had an offer.....this diesel gate thing discriminates in favor of those who bought red, blue or white!

Also, I had one fuse replaced under warranty, for a two year old car with 50,000 miles this is simply unacceptable.

And yes, for those unable to detect it....the above is sarcasm....

 

[sfpegasus]

But that $18,300 won't get you a car that will do what your 7 year old TDI will do after 15 more years of ownership.

At 3pm on Saturday I won't care any more.

 

[Debra Morgan]

At 3pm on Saturday I won't care any more.

...exactly...in 15 more years, electrics will have many more options.

 

[bizzle]

So what makes you the authority on how a vehicle should be driven?
For the record, I bought the vehicle because I was fascinated with the technology behind "clean diesel". Silly me. I never expected I would have to buy another car in my lifetime because I sincerely believed this thing would run forever. I planned on doing my 150K miles over several decades.

The issue is that one's driving patterns and the vehicle chosen should match up.

For example, if you were planning on driving hundreds of miles per day and thinking about an EV it would be important for someone to point out the limits of its range, charging time, and finite battery life.

That's similar to someone pointing out that driving a diesel relatively few miles per trip is sub-optimal and potentially damaging to the engine.

 

[Tenebrae]

I have a black car and I have not had an offer.....this diesel gate thing discriminates in favor of those who bought red, blue or white!

Also, I had one fuse replaced under warranty, for a two year old car with 50,000 miles this is simply unacceptable.

And yes, for those unable to detect it....the above is sarcasm....

You're onto something. My TDI is black as well!
VW is also racist against cars. Clearly.

-T.

 

[Lightflyer1]

The issue is that one's driving patterns and the vehicle chosen should match up.
For example, if you were planning on driving hundreds of miles per day and thinking about an EV it would be important for someone to point out the limits of its range, charging time, and finite battery life.
That's similar to someone pointing out that driving a diesel relatively few miles per trip is sub-optimal and potentially damaging to the engine.

There is only one place I have heard where VW said they would not sell a diesel car there. It was some tiny island less than 5 miles long IIRC. Everywhere else the cars will do just fine with a little attention to regen details. You don't have to drive 1000 miles a day to own one. More people in Europe own them than here and they generally drive far fewer miles than we do.

I would say also that most people don't own the "optimum" car for what they do with it. They own the coolest/most expensive/sporty etc... they can afford. Taste usually has more to do with it than matching up their optimum driving conditions.

 

[rbreding]

You're onto something. My TDI is black as well!
VW is also racist against cars. Clearly.

-T.

That explains it all......BLACK VW's MATTER!!!! Someone call that Sharpton clown, we need some publicity!

 

[bizzle]

There is only one place I have heard where VW said they would not sell a diesel car there. It was some tiny island less than 5 miles long IIRC. Everywhere else the cars will do just fine with a little attention to regen details. You don't have to drive 1000 miles a day to own one. More people in Europe own them than here and they generally drive far fewer miles than we do.

I would say also that most people don't own the "optimum" car for what they do with it. They own the coolest/most expensive/sporty etc... they can afford. Taste usually has more to do with it than matching up their optimum driving conditions.

Obviously VW (and any other car manufacturer) will sell you a car you don't need regardless so the fact they will sell you one doesn't say anything about your purchase having goodness of fit.

You have to figure that kind of stuff out on your own and it's completely appropriate for a someone on a diesel forum to point out to someone who isn't commuting far distances that a diesel will not be the best option. Pointing that out does not require someone to be an "authority" or anything else. It's accurate advice in the appropriate place.

A diesel does suffer from shorter drives and does not obtain fuel mileage benefits with short travel distances. The rest of your post was a non-sequitur.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Well my 2003 Beetle surpasses every other gas car I have owned and it doesn't really get long drives. My 2013 Passat was driven for nearly 3 years at a less than 5 mile commute and still returned low to mid 40 mpg over that time with no issues whatsoever. Yes they are better suited for some things like anything is. Still doesn't make them a wrong choice if your drives are shorter. One or two peoples opinions don't make it fact. They excel in long steady state drives. But they also do quite well in much shorter driving for "most" people.

 

[tdi54]

Good point grawk..that's one of the reasons why I am keeping it.

 

[bizzle]

I'm stating fact, not opinion.

I'm willing to bet money you have no idea what is or isn't happening inside the internals of your 2003. The fact that it's driving doesn't mean the intake or turbo aren't all coked up, which they will suffer from if you continue to subject it to short drives...again, fact not opinion. An opinion would be that I think you are driving the wrong car whereas fact is that short drives damage diesel engines and turbos.

If you really only drive a car 5 miles every time you start it you really have no accurate way to measure it's fuel consumption. If you are relying on the dash display it's going to be wildly over-estimating your consumption. At 5 miles per trip it would take you months to empty a tank and you'd have so many variables in your driving pattern that you'd have no accurate way to hand calculate it, either.

Lastly, gasoline engines are damaged by short trips, as well. They also return poor fuel mileage for such trips. Comparing a gas to diesel for a 5 mile trip is asinine. It would be perfectly appropriate for me or anyone else to suggest that you would be better served by a bicycle or EV within a 5 mile travel radius. The first sentence is fact, the last sentence is opinion.

True to form, we've got one guy deadset on arguing this nonsense into the ground and completely missing the forest for the trees.

This conversation started because someone said he had only managed to put a few thousand miles on a car that was 7 years old and he bought it for environmental reasons.

You seem to think that cars are not designed with a particular purpose in mind. That is objectively wrong, not an opinion. The engineers absolutely had a particular purpose in mind and they design the vehicle around those parameters (among others).

It's entirely appropriate and factually accurate to point out to someone if they are driving a diesel for short distances that do not allow the car to get up to operating temperatures they are not gaining *any* of the environmental benefits of a "clean diesel" car, which is why he said he bought it in the first place.

You don't seem to understand the difference between fact and opinion. It's my *opinion* that he would probably have been better off using a bicycle or a rental for those 7 years if he was only going to travel a few thousand miles over the entire decade! It's a *fact* that a "clean diesel" needs to be at operating temperature to obtain the benefits of the emissions system. It's also a *fact* that starting/stopping a diesel wears the internals more than driving it for longer distances. There are a few other facts I could list but it doesn't matter, t you not agreeing with a fact does not relegate it to opinion so if you want to keep throwing that dichotomy around I suggest you educate yourself on the differences between what happens inside a diesel engine versus a gasoline engine and then the relationship between operating temperature and turbochargers before arguing with me over what is or isn't a "fact."

 

[nmea2020]

The issue is that one's driving patterns and the vehicle chosen should match up.
For example, if you were planning on driving hundreds of miles per day and thinking about an EV it would be important for someone to point out the limits of its range, charging time, and finite battery life.
That's similar to someone pointing out that driving a diesel relatively few miles per trip is sub-optimal and potentially damaging to the engine.

Agreed...
This is why the wife does not really need a DIESEL...
She is the short trip queen. This is why i will take her car to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale or anywhere else that's more than 50 miles away.
I do 45 to 50 mile round trips couple times a week.
She loves the convenience of filling up every two weeks so i have to find her something very fuel efficient to replace thew 2010 TDI Sedan...Any ideas?

 

[Lightflyer1]

I'm stating fact, not opinion.

I'm willing to bet money you have no idea what is or isn't happening inside the internals of your 2003. The fact that it's driving doesn't mean the intake or turbo aren't all coked up, which they will suffer from if you continue to subject it to short drives...again, fact not opinion. An opinion would be that I think you are driving the wrong car whereas fact is that short drives damage diesel engines and turbos.

If you really only drive a car 5 miles every time you start it you really have no accurate way to measure it's fuel consumption. If you are relying on the dash display it's going to be wildly over-estimating your consumption. At 5 miles per trip it would take you months to empty a tank and you'd have so many variables in your driving pattern that you'd have no accurate way to hand calculate it, either.

Lastly, gasoline engines are damaged by short trips, as well. They also return poor fuel mileage for such trips. Comparing a gas to diesel for a 5 mile trip is asinine. It would be perfectly appropriate for me or anyone else to suggest that you would be better served by a bicycle or EV within a 5 mile travel radius. The first sentence is fact, the last sentence is opinion.

True to form, we've got one guy deadset on arguing this nonsense into the ground and completely missing the forest for the trees.

This conversation started because someone said he had only managed to put a few thousand miles on a car that was 7 years old and he bought it for environmental reasons.

You seem to think that cars are not designed with a particular purpose in mind. That is objectively wrong, not an opinion. The engineers absolutely had a particular purpose in mind and they design the vehicle around those parameters (among others).

It's entirely appropriate and factually accurate to point out to someone if they are driving a diesel for short distances that do not allow the car to get up to operating temperatures they are not gaining *any* of the environmental benefits of a "clean diesel" car, which is why he said he bought it in the first place.

You don't seem to understand the difference between fact and opinion. It's my *opinion* that he would probably have been better off using a bicycle or a rental for those 7 years if he was only going to travel a few thousand miles over the entire decade! It's a *fact* that a "clean diesel" needs to be at operating temperature to obtain the benefits of the emissions system. It's also a *fact* that starting/stopping a diesel wears the internals more than driving it for longer distances. There are a few other facts I could list but it doesn't matter, t you not agreeing with a fact does not relegate it to opinion so if you want to keep throwing that dichotomy around I suggest you educate yourself on the differences between what happens inside a diesel engine versus a gasoline engine and then the relationship between operating temperature and turbochargers before arguing with me over what is or isn't a "fact."

Don't judge peoples choices by your own ideas. Show me where VW states the intended purposes of its cars. Their real intended purpose is to get you from here to there. Some do it better than others with different benefits and consequences. Done.

 

[bizzle]

She loves the convenience of filling up every two weeks so i have to find her something very fuel efficient to replace thew 2010 TDI Sedan...Any ideas?

I've only been researching EVs and PHEVs for the past year.

My wife used to ride a bike to work but now she has an eGolf. I don't think they sell or lease eGolfs in Florida, yet.

Don't judge peoples choices by your own ideas. Show me where VW states the intended purposes of its cars. Their real intended purpose is to get you from here to there. Some do it better than others with different benefits and consequences. Done.

I haven't judged anyone's choices. You are probably confusing me with the member who told someone they weren't driving their car the way it was intended to be driven.

What I wrote was that driving a VW TDI for short distances will not result in the "clean diesel" advantages he bought the car for. The emissions equipment do not work at short trip operating temperatures. I'm not going to take the time citing authoritative sources on the subject because it's readily available for anyone who cares enough about the topic and you are simply arguing for the hell of it facts be damned.

We're in this mess because VW designed an emissions system to operate under specific conditions and then circumvented the design constraints. It's amazing to me you are old enough to drive but haven't learned about the importance of operating a motor vehicle within its intended temperature ranges. This is all detailed very clearly in your owner's manual if you insist on seeing an "official" statement from VW.

 

[tsingtao]

T
That's similar to someone pointing out that driving a diesel relatively few miles per trip is sub-optimal and potentially damaging to the engine.

That has not been my experience. I bought my 2009 at a time that I was required to use my vehicle for work and be compensated ~50cents/mile.

For about 3 months it was great and then they told me I had to drive their vehicle (had no choice). So I basically drive my TDI 6 miles each way to work with a very occasional road trip in there. Never had any engine problems.

Perhaps the mild Phoenix weather makes short trips a non-issue. Engine is at full temp in 3 miles even in the winter; in the summer (when it is 105F to 115F or more) the engine is at full operating temperature in about 1/2 mile. I will grant that driving 6 miles in sub-zero temps may give a totally different result.

As the 2009 does have a lot of potential problems (one piece DPF, fuel pump, oil pump hex key), I am selling back for $14,400. It has 67K miles on it.