The "What the Passat is lacking at 32K" thread.

TDICT

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Passat TDI is not a full size as classified by EPA, it is a midsize.
If you go by statements from the people that developed it, the Camry (midsize) and Accord (large) are the intended competition.
To the best of my knowledge the only way you can get an Accord or Camry to $33k MSRP is by adding video entertainment systems, which is not even an option on VW.
Comparably equipped the Passat is overpriced.

And to your point, it is the only diesel choice in it's competitive class.

The key word here is "DIESEL" everything else is frosting and EPA or not the interior space of the 2012 Passat is equal to or greater than the Accord and it makes the Camry look like a compact. Again how much you say the "DIESEL Camry and Accord is? ..Oh, sorry I did not see the word "Diesel" on their price sheet.
 

TDICT

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rear vents
xenon headlights
LED's
rear backup camera
adaptive cruise control
heated windshield
blind spot warning
So what Diesel front wheel drive car available in the US has the above and at what price ?

When I bought my 2009 JSW TDI there was no Bluetooth, no function controls on the steering wheel and the Nav system was not available , although they started shipping latter in the year. My guess is VW will phase in additional features in future model years so they can have something to talk about. I think the TDI SEL is pricing will grow in future years.
I think that VW will sell all the Passat TDI's that can produce and once demand levels off than some options will be added.
 

TDICT

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A car that has fewer features available is decontented in comparison to one that does.

The 2012 Passat is a new model with an old name so there can be no decontenting. If the 2013 has less features than that would be considered "Decontented". We will see next year.

The Passat back in 2007 was available with xenon in the high trim as far as I know. Rear vents are hardly a new thing, although VW could take a hint from Hyundai, since that company's vents are better. LEDs have been available in some VWs like the Toureg for a while as far as I know, but the fact is is that the B7 Passat for China has them. History is interesting, but we're living in the present.

And what was the price of that Diesel 2007 Passat with xenon lights in 2007? I am sure if the new Passat sold for the same price they could afford to throw in the xenons.

Ride in the back seat of a black/black Leatherette Passat in 95 degree heat after the car has been sitting in the parking lot. It's not "fascination". It's a matter of simple physics. In order to cool the rear area, air has to get from the front of the car to the rear of the car. Without rear vents that push a decent amount of air, less directional (more diffuse) air has to be moved from the front vents, which creates more noise and takes longer to cool down the back. It also makes the front colder, possibly, than the people in the front want, in order to get enough coolness to the back.

Well I think the first thing one would do is get the hot air out via the sun roof or side windows than the forward air vents will do a fine job of cooling the car. It is not a huge SUV type space we are talking about. The rear vents in my 2009 JSW would have a hard time blowing out a candle.

What is fascinating is that China is considered a market in which it's appropriate to offer extra features like xenons, LEDs, and rear vents, while the US is not.
PRICE, PRICE. PRICE...I think the Passat is considered more of a "Luxury" car in China and cost the average buyer a greater chunk of their disposable income than the US buyer.
 

cevans

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Car prices in China are higher than in the USA so VW makes more money per car, so there is margin room to put in those other items where in the US they strip down the car to make the price point.

There is also less hassle with regulations in China - introducing a new headlight in the us costs a whole load of money to get DOT approval, and I don't think China cares about headlight approval.

One of the most popular rides in the Chinese MianBaoChe ('Microvan'), and if you've ever been in one you'll know how horrid all safety aspects of the car is - headlights, seat belts, crumple zones, who needs such things? I'd rather be in a rusty 1960's VW Bus in an accident.
 

740GLE

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The bread and butter of VW will be the enrty level Passat, every spec they chose for the entry level was to beat the entry level Camery and Accord. From the factory there is a spec sheet, leg room, trunk space ect in the car touting how great the passat is directly to those cars. The new Passat isn't designed/marketed to compete with higher end models. Take an inventory of your local dealers how many S, SE, 2.5L they get.

They need to sell massive numbers of the passats (to keep the new plant viable) and they know they can't sell massive numbers of "upscale luxury items", they tried that with the B6.
 
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Oberkanone

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The bread and butter of VW will be the enrty level Passat, every spec they chose for the entry level was to beat the entry level Camery and Accord. From the factory there is a spec sheet, leg room, trunk space ect in the car touting how great the passat is directly to those cars. The new Passat isn't designed/marketed to compete with higher end models. Take an inventory of your local dealers how many S, SE, 2.5L they get.

They need to sell massive numbers of the passats (to keep the new plant viable) and they know they can't sell massive numbers of "upscale luxury items", they tried that with the B6.
VW's intent is not to beat the competition on pricing
Despite the growing volume, Browning vows VW will “retain its price premium” in the market. Brand sales incentives are 30% below the industry average, he says, adding a Jetta draws transaction prices $2,500-$3,000 higher than a comparable Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic.
so we should not expect the decontenting to result in Camry & Accord type prices.
 

TDICT

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After owning my 2012 Passat TDI SEL for a little over a week and almost 1,000 miles I have discovered that the rear compartment is vented by vents under the front seats facing aft and they blow a a lot of hot or cold air. The auto wiper function is there and can be activated by the dealer computer.
A lot of thought has gone into these cars, example with you remove the fuel cap there is a cone in the center and a holder on the door for it so it won't dangle against the body. When turning the wheel when parking the road light lights in the direction you are turning.
 

verylongdrive

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The auto wiper function is there and can be activated by the dealer computer.
Auto-what? Rain-sensing? Is this a feature limited to certain trim levels, or deactivated across the board?


A lot of thought has gone into these cars, example with you remove the fuel cap there is a cone in the center and a holder on the door for it so it won't dangle against the body.
If all I'd ever had was my 01 Golf with the leashed danglecap, that might look like a new improvement. However, all my GM (not known for thoughtful engineering)wagons, for over 20+ years, have had a holder on the fuel door, while my other cars have a least had no leash, so you can set the cap aside.
With the Golf, your only hope is to use the cap to defeat a non-lockable nozzle. On mine, the paint under the filler is worn thing from all the clean-wiping.
 
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TDICT

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Not making a big deal on the cap but it just dangled on my 2009 JSW TDI to rub against the body, My 1993 K-Blazer has a clip to hold the loose cap but many a time I have had to crawl in the wet and snow to get it when it fell. My Ford Excursion PSD had a dangling cap and many scraches on the body.
My only comment is that someone who drives these cars has had a lot of input intotheir practical design.
 

Oberkanone

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Cap

Not making a big deal on the cap but it just dangled on my 2009 JSW TDI to rub against the body, My 1993 K-Blazer has a clip to hold the loose cap but many a time I have had to crawl in the wet and snow to get it when it fell. My Ford Excursion PSD had a dangling cap and many scraches on the body.
My only comment is that someone who drives these cars has had a lot of input intotheir practical design.


On a 2009 JSW (and Sedan) the cap is not designed to just dangle.
 

TDICT

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Well I put diesel fuel in my JSW for 82k miles and never saw it there. Maybe I'm just a "Closet Dangler".
 

740GLE

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2010 doesn't have it, yet i'm scratch free after 45K.
 

TDICT

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2010 doesn't have it, yet i'm scratch free after 45K.
Well thats interesting. I don't remember seeing it on my 2009 JSW and I have opened that fuel door many times over the course of 83k miles. Car is gone now so I can't check it but I did not think it was there.
 

Oberkanone

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CC is getting option of adaptive bi-xenon headlights for 2012.
Hopefully more options become available on the Passat.
 

tdi90hp

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well we wanted a new mid luxury car this summer and looked hard at the market. we knew the Passat 2012 was coming. We wanted....power/torque, automatic, looks, and the "right" size and a stunning original interior and a massively strong and safe car that was not decontented and was not flashy (bimmer and benz were never considered). Diesel was not as critical as it was on the 11 golf....and it had to be FWD(4 snows) because honestly when you are a skier and you want to get to the mountain RWD wont cut it and 4WD feels heavy. We love our new 250HP/266ft/lb 2012 S60 T5 Premium pack with City safety and 18" wheels and the mileage is surprising for a non diesel. Why ? Sorry guys but the Passat is just plain ugly IMHO. I dont think I will ever wrap my head around it and it does not have the interior or perfect packaging of the Volvo...The dollars are very close and in the states you get FREE maintenance for 4 years...and they threw in a trip to Europe...and we have a 12 yr warranty on the body as well and the best seats ever designed for the human body.....all this to say...It aint gonna be easy for the new Passat.....the market is chock full of great product....but I get it....it aint a diesel. !
 

TDICT

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well we wanted a new mid luxury car this summer and looked hard at the market. we knew the Passat 2012 was coming. We wanted....power/torque, automatic, looks, and the "right" size and a stunning original interior and a massively strong and safe car that was not decontented and was not flashy (bimmer and benz were never considered). Diesel was not as critical as it was on the 11 golf....and it had to be FWD(4 snows) because honestly when you are a skier and you want to get to the mountain RWD wont cut it and 4WD feels heavy. We love our new 250HP/266ft/lb 2012 S60 T5 Premium pack with City safety and 18" wheels and the mileage is surprising for a non diesel. Why ? Sorry guys but the Passat is just plain ugly IMHO. I dont think I will ever wrap my head around it and it does not have the interior or perfect packaging of the Volvo...The dollars are very close and in the states you get FREE maintenance for 4 years...and they threw in a trip to Europe...and we have a 12 yr warranty on the body as well and the best seats ever designed for the human body.....all this to say...It aint gonna be easy for the new Passat.....the market is chock full of great product....but I get it....it aint a diesel. !
You must be kidding! You like the looks of the Volvo S-60! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the volvo , to me,it looks like it was designed by a committee that did not talk to each other. Good luck with your purchase. I think you will find you will not be happy with the Volvo resale value.
 

tdi90hp

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You must be kidding! You like the looks of the Volvo S-60! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the volvo , to me,it looks like it was designed by a committee that did not talk to each other. Good luck with your purchase. I think you will find you will not be happy with the Volvo resale value.
you make me laugh....styling is all about your personnal taste. We love it. (you like the looks of the new Passat! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....see it cuts both ways).... go sit in a loaded one(S60) and tell me again its not one of the best interiors in the world today in a mid lux car. secondly....just sold my 2001 volvo S60 with 190,000kms for 5500 bucks. it sold in under a day. you think an 11 yr old Passat will pull much more?? I keep cars a long time so resale after 10 years is all within a thousand or 2 so it's a NON issue.
 

tdi90hp

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You must be kidding! You like the looks of the Volvo S-60! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the volvo , to me,it looks like it was designed by a committee that did not talk to each other. Good luck with your purchase. I think you will find you will not be happy with the Volvo resale value.
here we go for your viewing pleasure for that HUGE vw resale value. same year as my volvo (2001).....same money...even lower considering lower mileages....those who live in glass houses.....

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/pv/Used/...6,43.8195039829348,-79.5100116851338,&prx=100&
 

TwoTone

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You must be kidding! You like the looks of the Volvo S-60! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the volvo , to me,it looks like it was designed by a committee that did not talk to each other. Good luck with your purchase. I think you will find you will not be happy with the Volvo resale value.
And you know what the resale value will be on a VW CR TDI?
Seriously with the HPFP issues still unresolved, who's knows what the resale will be.

If VW doesn't get it under control I would wager you will see a lot of CRs dumped at the end of warranty, which won't help resale.
 

tdi90hp

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You must be kidding! You like the looks of the Volvo S-60! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the volvo , to me,it looks like it was designed by a committee that did not talk to each other. Good luck with your purchase. I think you will find you will not be happy with the Volvo resale value.
just checked toronto auto trader....2006 models

passats range from 10K to 15.5K
Volvo s60....12k to 17K

where is the BIG VW resale value.....????

By the way the Bimmers were in the same range....

those who live in glass houses.....
 

madhun

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You folks should count yourself lucky, a fully option TDi Passat wagon will run $70k from an Australian dealership or about $67k US pesos.
 

tdi90hp

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You folks should count yourself lucky, a fully option TDi Passat wagon will run $70k from an Australian dealership or about $67k US pesos.

holy smokes...waht does an S60 cost there? sorry we are a bit off topic....
 

TDICT

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And you know what the resale value will be on a VW CR TDI?
Seriously with the HPFP issues still unresolved, who's knows what the resale will be.

If VW doesn't get it under control I would wager you will see a lot of CRs dumped at the end of warranty, which won't help resale.

I can tell you because I traded my 2009 JSW TDI with 82k miles in toward a 2012 Passat TDI SEL and I got Strong money for it with very high miles. This HPFP issue is blown way out of proportion and it has not diminished the resale value of a CR TDI. Just as a VW dealer what kind of demand they have for used CR TDI car.
 

TDICT

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sorry my bad....will go offline with question or online to the aussie volvo site !
I think thats a very good idea! I was polite enough not to be so crude as to call your car ugly (but it is) when you took the low road and called the 2012 Passat "Ugly". This is a TDI site and the resale for TDI cars is much higher than gas cars so you comparison is flawed. You think that if the car was so wonderful and in such demand they would need to incentive the purchase with a free trip to Europe?
Enjoy your new car, maybe it doesn't look so ugly from the driver's seat.
 

tdi90hp

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I think thats a very good idea! I was polite enough not to be so crude as to call your car ugly (but it is) when you took the low road and called the 2012 Passat "Ugly". This is a TDI site and the resale for TDI cars is much higher than gas cars so you comparison is flawed. You think that if the car was so wonderful and in such demand they would need to incentive the purchase with a free trip to Europe?
Enjoy your new car, maybe it doesn't look so ugly from the driver's seat.

touch a nerve did I by calling the passat ugly?? yep...guess I better not offend anyones ugly boring impalaesque passat....this is a forum sir...which means I have a right to my opinion as do you. if you dont like my car....I accept that but please dont criticize me for calling your new wheels one of the least inspired VW designs in 20 years....sorry bud....IMHO opinion and a lot of Jetta/Golf owners the new Passat is a total and absolute styling disaster....and the low rent interior is not much better. but...it's a diesel and I do appreciate that.
 
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