The "What the Passat is lacking at 32K" thread.

[CryoTech]

I was seriosuly interested in the passat at one point, until I found there would be no wagon for 12. Thats when I bought my wagon. Since then, I have begun to "re-content" the things on my wagon that VW seems to leave off of it. (Fogs, HID, a real light switch with more than two positions). The biggest gripe I have left is cloth seats. That changes the day I find a mashed GTI with the MKVI plaid interior.

Anyway -

Looking at the new 2012 Passat TDI "SEL Premium" (wow a DOUBLE premium trim level!) I find some items to be severely lacking at this 32K price point.

HID
Fog lights
Rear passenger air vents
No choice on manual tranny
No Auto wipers.
No full leather seating

At the price point of the passat, I tent to think that many buyers would tend to look at many other options instead. Think about it. They are starting to approach entry luxury car market at this price range. The TSX, while 10 MPG less comes to mind. What about Hyundai's Sonata? Whos features in their top trim level are far more inclusive than this Passat, for several thousand left - plus a 100K warranty? All for 5MPG? When the sonata eats rot gut and diesel is .30 a gallon more?

I dont get VWOA's thinking on this. The car is worth nowhere near 32K in the american market with these features. TDI simply doesnt put up the "real world fuel economy" to distance itsself from other very nice sedans. Small cars like the golf, and wagons, and the previous MKV Jetta were all great alternatives at their price points. Not so much becaue of fuel economy, but because of the build quality and available features of the golf etc, it had a market. The german car buyer. The german car buyer that is down sizing or wants a nice german car with nice features that gets good fuel mileage without busting the bank.

I simply think the passat in this form will be a huge bust. STOP Decontenting! Include more for our money or get left behind.

Make no mistake I really do like my JSW. Now that ive installed HID's fogs and a real light switch in it.

But leaving things like rear vents out... For example, it's just perplexing. Perhaps they think the car will sell on the nomer of fuel economy. Lets hope their prespective buyers dont use a spreadhseet and compare price vs features vs fuel economy.

 

[oxford_guy]

Well, the thing that's truly galling is the rumor that VW is planning to put rear passenger vents in cars being delivered in late October. Imagine spending all that money and taking the risks associated with pre-ordering only to discover that you've been tricked into buying a vehicle that is current for only a few weeks -- replaced by one that has rear vents!

That is some fast obsolescence, eh?

I do, however, disagree with the idea that the TDI Golf is necessarily a better value. The Passat has a softer ride (especially with the SE trim) and more space, and will appeal to a different set of buyers. Being made in Germany hasn't prevented Golfs from having HPFP failures and iced-up intercoolers. Squeaks and rattles have also been reported by a good number. I also think the Passat is more comfortable than the JSW and the Golf.

VW needs to do something about the tires on the SEL, though. They're loud. Personally, I think 18" wheels should be optional for the SE/Nav and SEL trims. I also think the exterior chrome strips should be put on all TDI trims. Rear vents should be on all TDI trims. It's pretty silly that people who buy an SE with DSG (no nav) can spend like $30,000 after taxes/fees for a car that looks exactly like the SE gasoline model from the outside. That's lame.

 

[GraniteRooster]

I agree with you - the Passat TDI should dazzle us with features compared to the JSW or Golf, but no. I appreciate the extra space and differently tuned ride, but as a manual transmission driver the only car I can get is a base model? No thanks...

 

[740GLE]

VW isn't compeating with accura or infinity or BMW, they are compeating with Toyota, and honda. Agreed we should be getting the best bang for the buck we can, but seeing they cut how much off the sticker price of the pervious version? I think/hope in the 2013 or 2014 MY they will add more options make the passat more rounded out.

As for the TDI, with the complexity/added cost of the differences between that and the 2.5, I can't really wrap my head around the TDI as being marketed as a class higher than the 2.5. I think the TDI's are a class/group all by itself.

Also the bells and whistles are all on that audi you wish you were getting but can't afford.

VW isn't a luxuray brand, everyone knows how the pheton did, we might have been spoiled with some of the mk4 trim lines, but vw isn't trying pull what volvo did in the late 90s through early 2000's, they are going back to entry level, quantity over quality is the aim they are going.

 

[CryoTech]

VW isn't compeating with accura or infinity or BMW, they are compeating with Toyota, and honda. Agreed we should be getting the best bang for the buck we can, but seeing they cut how much off the sticker price of the pervious version? I think/hope in the 2013 or 2014 MY they will add more options make the passat more rounded out.

As for the TDI, with the complexity/added cost of the differences between that and the 2.5, I can't really wrap my head around the TDI as being marketed as a class higher than the 2.5. I think the TDI's are a class/group all by itself.

Also the bells and whistles are all on that audi you wish you were getting but can't afford.

VW isn't a luxuray brand, everyone knows how the pheton did, we might have been spoiled with some of the mk4 trim lines, but vw isn't trying pull what volvo did in the late 90s through early 2000's, they are going back to entry level, quantity over quality is the aim they are going.

I can afford an audi just fine. My previous car was a 335i. At 32K I expect more for my money or my money stays in my pocket.

 

[verylongdrive]

What about Hyundai's Sonata? Whos features in their top trim level are far more inclusive than this Passat, for several thousand left - plus a 100K warranty? All for 5MPG? When the sonata eats rot gut and diesel is .30 a gallon more?

I was interested in a Sonata, based on the Turbo's price/economy/performance. So I waited for the Turbo to come out, and then I test drove one.
Not so nice to drive, feelse even more cramped than it mechanically is, not as fast as the numbers would suggest. Worst of all, the gaudy interior design made me realize just how overdone and currently-trendy the exterior really is.
Somehow, that one drive cured me of my interest.

 

[b1jackson]

I've never fell so out of lust so quickly as I have with those new Hyandai (Elantra really). When they first hit the lots this spring I thought how cool, sleek and curvy. Now that I see more of them on the streets, I find them over done and just freaky looking. This is all optics. I've only sat in one and not drove one.

So that relationship of thinking "nice looking car" lasted about 5 months. Think how ticked I'd be if I bought one and was sick of its looks already!

 

[740GLE]

I can afford an audi just fine. My previous car was a 335i. At 32K I expect more for my money or my money stays in my pocket.

So what's another 32K priced car that has everything you need? How does it compare to the Passat? not only hit points of HIDs and leather but package deal. If you just want those hit points, buy the Hyandai that has them but, i'm sure it's missing something else in the "package". If you can something that's not VW and are happy than buy it, no hair of VW's back, they are just hoping you're happy with theirs. I don't think VW will loose too many people cause they don't have hit points of HID and Leather. How many other tdis/jettas weren't sold because of no HID or real leather.

 

[CryoTech]

Other TDI's arent 32K. I bought a JSW and added HID's and fogs myself. I looked at the TSX wagon but it was too expensive / low mileage when compared to the JSW, for untility offered.

Had the euro ford focus wagon been available state side, I probably would have chosen it over the JSW.

The point is, the Passat doesnt offer enough to be 32K.

 

[bardie]

I'm in Canada. I'm picking my Passat up Sept 20th or thereabouts, depending on delivery.
Up here, auto headlights are standard as are the fog-lights. at least that's what I've been told and sold.
As to the rear vents. I've never had them so I won't miss them if my car doesn't have them.

The space in the car is impressive. I thought about holding out for a wagon in the next couple of years but figured that if I'm away for anything more than a weekend with my wife and kids I'd have to buy a roof carrier anyway.

 

[CryoTech]

My point -
Were there a Passat Wagon with all the features of the premium sel tdi, with HID, fogs, auto wipers, and a big roof like the JSW, then it would be worth 32k to me. THAT would be a 32K car, if the materials used in construction were on par with that of the golf, and not the new MKVI sedan jetta.

 

[99Jet]

I thought about holding out for a wagon in the next couple of years but figured that if I'm away for anything more than a weekend with my wife and kids I'd have to buy a roof carrier anyway.

I was hoping for factory mounting holes from the factory, but apparently there are none. My $29K B200 had it. The Passat should too.

There are also no rack/rails available for the B7. (yet)

 

[TDICT]

I have been away from this site for a while since I purchased my 2009 JSW TDI that was delivered in December 2008. I have since put 82k miles on my TDI and so far I have replaced two headlight bulbs, one brake light bulb and tires at 75k miles.
Folks...This is a TDI site!
I have on order a 2012 SEL TDI Black/Black that will hopefully be delivered in the next few weeks.
There is no other "Diesel" car available to compare to the Passat, not BMW, MB, or any of the products of Japan or Korea.

The fact that people (most who would not be Passat TDI buyers) are condemning the car because it does not have rear vents! HID lamps! Auto Wipers (I have them on my wifes MB C300 and they are a pain). I know how and when to turn on my wipers.
There have been complaints about the "Prop Rod Hood"...This I don't understand. I have had my car for 32 months, 82k miles and I have never opened the hood and why would I. There is nothing I could do there once I opened it. Maybe VW should install the hydraulic positions to make it easy for the weak VW service techs!.
Tell me what diesel 4 door sedan, front wheel drive offers the total package of fuel economy, interior volume and more standard features (than our MB C300 has) for $32k?

The key word here is "DIESEL"

 

[abctdi]

I'm not sure I would get the SEL anyway, so should there be a whine thread about what is lacking in a 27k Passat TDI?

 

[Oberkanone]

Never Open Your Hood

There have been complaints about the "Prop Rod Hood"...This I don't understand. I have had my car for 32 months, 82k miles and I have never opened the hood and why would I. There is nothing I could do there once I opened it.

I check oil every time I fill the tank. Also check for any signs of leaks. An a few other things too.

I must be nuts.

 

[MyAvocation]

There have been complaints about the "Prop Rod Hood"...This I don't understand. I have had my car for 32 months, 82k miles and I have never opened the hood and why would I. There is nothing I could do there once I opened it.

I can think of several good reasons to pop the hood, especially if dealership is doing your scheduled maintenance... They have quite a track record with overfilling oil on TDIs. You should also check the dipstick every couple thousand miles, as oil consumption is a known issue on all TDI builds. That aside, I agree with the rest of your comments.

 

[danix]

Just to add fuel to the fire, you can get a 2011 BMW 335d (base) for $38k. They are discounting them pretty heavily (around $6k off MSRP).

 

[TDICT]

Just to add fuel to the fire, you can get a 2011 BMW 335d (base) for $38k. They are discounting them pretty heavily (around $6k off MSRP).

No fuel to the fire..BMW 335D is rear wheel drive with no all wheel drive option. If you live where the snow flies you will see the BMW parked more than on the road. Rear wheel drive cars don't work in New England where I do most of my driving.

 

[TDICT]

I can think of several good reasons to pop the hood, especially if dealership is doing your scheduled maintenance... They have quite a track record with overfilling oil on TDIs. You should also check the dipstick every couple thousand miles, as oil consumption is a known issue on all TDI builds. That aside, I agree with the rest of your comments.

Well my dealer in CT replaces the oil from quart containers from the parts department not from a bulk fill system and for what they charge for a quart of the special TDI oil I doubt they would be adding any extra. They check the oil before each change and it is always to the mark. I have a Ford PSD with 230k and a Chevy 5,7 with 216k and they also show no oil usage when checked at the oil change. Some new cars do not even have an dipstick any more!

 

[TDICT]

I check oil every time I fill the tank. Also check for any signs of leaks. An a few other things too.

I must be nuts.

Every Time! And what has this constant surveillance revealed? Nothing bad I hope.

 

[aja8888]

Rear wheel drive cars don't work in New England where I do most of my driving.

Now that's odd? Over the 40 years I lived in Waterbury, Southbury and Watertown, CT and drove ONLY rear wheel drive cars, I got wherever I wanted to go in all the snowstorms. You just need the right tires and know how to drive. Even my 1965 Vette did pretty well in the snow.

 

[TDICT]

Now that's odd? Over the 40 years I lived in Waterbury, Southbury and Watertown, CT and drove ONLY rear wheel drive cars, I got wherever I wanted to go in all the snowstorms. You just need the right tires and know how to drive. Even my 1965 Vette did pretty well in the snow.

Corvette in the snow...Thats a stretch.I have had a few corvettes (1959,1968 and 2001 ZO-6) and they had limited traction on even a damp road I have been driving in CT since 1961 and sure you can get to were you want to go but it is not fun getting up a steep hill or driveway with a rear wheel drive car even with a few inches of snow. In the 1960's there were only rear wheel drive and four wheel drive Jeeps were few and far between and not a comfortable every day driver/commuter. In the old days when the snow fell you would see abandoned cars all over the side of the road, not the case anymore. With todays choices there is no reason to own a rear wheel drive only car for daily driver in New England. Front wheel or all wheel drive is common place. Sure for a sunny dry day a sports or performance car that never sees the wet will get you there.

 

[aja8888]

Corvette in the snow...Thats a stretch.I have had a few corvettes (1959,1968 and 2001 ZO-6) and they had limited traction on even a damp road I have been driving in CT since 1961 and sure you can get to were you want to go but it is not fun getting up a steep hill or driveway with a rear wheel drive car even with a few inches of snow. In the 1960's there were only rear wheel drive and four wheel drive Jeeps were few and far between and not a comfortable every day driver/commuter. In the old days when the snow fell you would see abandoned cars all over the side of the road, not the case anymore. With todays choices there is no reason to own a rear wheel drive only car for daily driver in New England. Front wheel or all wheel drive is common place. Sure for a sunny dry day a sports or performance car that never sees the wet will get you there.

I have been driving in CT since 1960 - 61 also. What a coincidence. We probably went to different schools together! I worked in Cheshire on Peck Lane at the old (not then) Waterbury Farrel Co (now Textron) in 1962-63. I never got stuck in the snow and I also had chains. I do admit, the front wheel drive cars are much better, although I wish I had my '65 Stingray instead of this Passat wagon.

 

[TDICT]

I have been driving in CT since 1960 - 61 also. What a coincidence. We probably went to different schools together! I worked in Cheshire on Peck Lane at the old (not then) Waterbury Farrel Co (now Textron) in 1962-63. I never got stuck in the snow and I also had chains. I do admit, the front wheel drive cars are much better, although I wish I had my '65 Stingray instead of this Passat wagon.

I think I remember you in school ! I live right off of Peck lane. In 1963 I was graduating from High School....Where did all the time go. I agree in hindsight letting go of the 65 Vette was not as good idea now as it was then. Lots of the cars I have owned in the past would be nice to have now. Hope things cool off for you in Texas and you get some rain...We sure don't need any more.

 

[740GLE]

pfft rwd is better in the snow IMO, i always felt the rear going around and let off the go pedel to correct. I drove RWD Volvos for 10 years all over maine winters before my tdi and never had an issue with snow as long as winter rubberes were on. This was before ABS on the first one and the only traction control my last one had was a locking rear end.

BTW with TCS and ESP, this isn't that big of deal. I also see just as many rwd mercs and BMWs on the winter roads. To each his own i guess!

 

[aja8888]

I think I remember you in school ! I live right off of Peck lane. In 1963 I was graduating from High School....Where did all the time go. I agree in hindsight letting go of the 65 Vette was not as good idea now as it was then. Lots of the cars I have owned in the past would be nice to have now. Hope things cool off for you in Texas and you get some rain...We sure don't need any more.

Where did all the time go...good question! When I go back to CT twice per year, I still get around those screwy roads as if I still lived there, but the landscape has changed. We are really suffering with the heat, and no rain for months and some places here have not had measurable rain in a year. We are on water rationing .....never thought living in a swamp (south Texas) would come to this.

 

[WVU TDI]

You know what all those other cars are missing at $32k?

A 43mpg rated torque monster TDI engine.

 

[Oberkanone]

40 mpg not 43 mpg

You know what all those other cars are missing at $32k?

A 43mpg rated torque monster TDI engine.

40 mpg, not 43 mpg is the best the $32k Passat TDI can manage on EPA rating since it is missing a manual transmission.

 

[WVU TDI]

40 mpg, not 43 mpg is the best the $32k Passat TDI can manage on EPA rating since it is missing a manual transmission.

Good catch!

Party pooper

 

[jck66]

pfft rwd is better in the snow IMO, i always felt the rear going around and let off the go pedel to correct.

Sorry, not to get off topic, but isn't this the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do with a RWD vehicle when the rear starts to come around?