The settlement as proposed is complete BS

CraziFuzzy

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lol, true.. but specifically for this buyback.
The point being, that because the actual vehicle's depreciation is fixed for the next 2 years, even if the mileage adjustment does result in a loss, it's less of a loss than you would have incurred had you driven the car at that rate and NOT had the option to use the buyback in 2018.
 

DubFamily

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The point being, that because the actual vehicle's depreciation is fixed for the next 2 years, even if the mileage adjustment does result in a loss, it's less of a loss than you would have incurred had you driven the car at that rate and NOT had the option to use the buyback in 2018.

Actually it isn't. VW's depreciation value for mileage is higher than NADA's value or KBBs value; so every mile you drive costs you more than it would for a normal trade in or sale...
 

Jordaney

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I personally couldnt care less what they pay me. My 2012 passat TDI was the biggest lemon I have ever purchased and the dealer that reaped all benefits from the countless repairs didnt deserve a penny of it. this is my best way out. Yes the car drove great and the fuel mileage was outstanding but I have better things to do than drive back and forth to the dealer for repairs. good bye VW and Audi never again.
 

jayp111

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The point being, that because the actual vehicle's depreciation is fixed for the next 2 years, even if the mileage adjustment does result in a loss, it's less of a loss than you would have incurred had you driven the car at that rate and NOT had the option to use the buyback in 2018.
Stop trying to insert logic into the discussion.....you'll only upset folks more
 

CraziFuzzy

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'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
Actually it isn't. VW's depreciation value for mileage is higher than NADA's value or KBBs value; so every mile you drive costs you more than it would for a normal trade in or sale...
Those mileage charts look pretty accurate for cars in this range.
 

jayp111

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Try not to confuse the population on this forum with the population of TDi owners in general.
There's no confusion

The overwhelming majority of threads on this forum are now exclusively dedicated to people complaining about what VW is not doing to compensate them sufficiently for their hurt feelings on top of any issues with the car.

Wish there were a good way to separate out the dieselgate whining from the dieselgate info and the meat of the forum which is fixing/enjoying/tuning TDI's and other diesels
 

CraziFuzzy

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My point was that even though it seems a large number of people on here are up in arms about the settlement not being enough or to keep their hands off their car, I have no doubt VW will easily reach the EPA's target of 85% compliance with the buyback program.
 

Diesl

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The proposed settlement does NOTHING to compensate owners for the fraud and deception that VW perpetrated on them, UNLESS they are willing to give up their car in its current form (buyback now, 'fix', if one is ever approved, or buyback later). The settlement as it is proposed therefore completely fails to meet the goal stated in its first sentence: ”The goal of the Volkswagen Class Settlement Program is to compensate everyone who owned or leased a Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle (”Eligible Vehicle”) on September 18, 2015 (the date the emissions allegations became public), or who now owns an eligible vehicle. ”
I urge every owner to use the comment period and voice their opposition to the deal as currently proposed.
Pretty lively! I think it really helps to structure the discussion by not forcing everything into one big messy thread. Some people might have clicked on this thread by accident, but I am hoping this will be a productive discussion of whether the proposed settlement in its current form can achieve its claimed goal.

For those who didn't get my point, let me try to explain better:
What rubs me the wrong way is that the settlement is every bit as fraudulent and deceitful as VW's claims that the car meets US car emissions regulations: the proposal claims that its goal is to compensate every owner, but when you read the fine print, it does not do that at all. Instead, it proposes to only compensate owners who turn in their cars or submit them to a fix (IF -BIG IF- a fix is ever approved) that will be at most warranted for 48.000 miles. If there is no fix, and you don't sell back your car, you will get no compensation.

This is not owner protection; the settlement is guilty of the same false advertising as VW.
 

CraziFuzzy

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I think it's pretty understood that the goal of a settlement for an environmental violation suit is to solve the environmental violation. In this case, it means getting the polluters fixed or out of service. Owner compensation will be what ever it takes to get that to happen.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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NPR this morning had interviews with several TDI owners reacting to the settlement terms. All said they were satisfied, most were going to sell their cars back to VW.

Looking at the thread of calculated buybacks it seems most people are going to end up having driven their cars for free or nearly free, exclusive of fuel, maintenance, insurance, and taxes, for the time they've owned it. The exception of this are people who are impossibly upside down in their car loan, or drive a '15 Passat, where the numbers don't seem to work so well.

Free use of the car for its life with you seems to me to be pretty good compensation. Driving my '12 Golf for the three and a half years I owned it cost me about $7K in depreciation, by contrast.

I predicted people here were going to be unhappy, because many had unrealistic expectations.
 

dropnosky

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RI
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Pretty lively! I think it really helps to structure the discussion by not forcing everything into one big messy thread. Some people might have clicked on this thread by accident, but I am hoping this will be a productive discussion of whether the proposed settlement in its current form can achieve its claimed goal.
For those who didn't get my point, let me try to explain better:
What rubs me the wrong way is that the settlement is every bit as fraudulent and deceitful as VW's claims that the car meets US car emissions regulations: the proposal claims that its goal is to compensate every owner, but when you read the fine print, it does not do that at all. Instead, it proposes to only compensate owners who turn in their cars or submit them to a fix (IF -BIG IF- a fix is ever approved) that will be at most warranted for 48.000 miles. If there is no fix, and you don't sell back your car, you will get no compensation.
This is not owner protection; the settlement is guilty of the same false advertising as VW.
Funny, calling something BS and the words "productive discussion" arent good bedfellows.

They are willing to buy your entire car back for a good price plus extra cash. I look forward to reading a description of a settlement that would satisfy you and still be connected with reality.

Right now they will give me more than my car is worth or they will give me cash that is about double the loss in value that happened when the scandal broke. I can either come out ahead selling the car back, or come out ahead paying a big piece of my loan off. Whatever way its cut, thats a hell of a deal for most people.
 
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dropnosky

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There's no confusion

The overwhelming majority of threads on this forum are now exclusively dedicated to people complaining about what VW is not doing to compensate them sufficiently for their hurt feelings on top of any issues with the car.

Wish there were a good way to separate out the dieselgate whining from the dieselgate info and the meat of the forum which is fixing/enjoying/tuning TDI's and other diesels
X2. Prior a thread would be about an issue or mod and how to fix it, complete it. Now the majority of threads are about an issue or mod and how the scandal impacts it and wheres my money.
 

SkeeterMark

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Actually it isn't. VW's depreciation value for mileage is higher than NADA's value or KBBs value; so every mile you drive costs you more than it would for a normal trade in or sale...
Except that you have to account for the fact that your first 1,042 miles each month is absolutely FREE. Even at a higher per mile rate, you are reducing your monthly mileage by 1,042, so you have to put on quite a bit to make the per mile depreciation be more than KBB or NADA.
 

Sean2002

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Location
Maryland
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Actually it isn't. VW's depreciation value for mileage is higher than NADA's value or KBBs value; so every mile you drive costs you more than it would for a normal trade in or sale...
Does NADA give you 12,000 free miles a year?

As long as you drive less than 1042 miles a month, your value is the same in two years as it is today. If you're driving more than 12,000 a year, the value of any car is going to go down at a faster rate than someone driving less miles.
 

Blindsider

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Upstate NY
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My only issues are the starting values for the cars, at least for mine. Plus if you put the options into NADA the deductions for manual and mileage are much less than in the FTC adjustment tables. I assume this is their lowball starter and expect it to be adjusted. Or they threw a few million into the pockets of NADA to help them out.

The other issue is if your car is totaled between now and September you're out of the deal. Since fixes are not even supposed to happen until then you're gambling every time you drive. Not sure why that language was allowed to get in.
 

CraziFuzzy

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Does NADA give you 12,000 free miles a year?

As long as you drive less than 1042 miles a month, your value is the same in two years as it is today. If you're driving more than 12,000 a year, the value of any car is going to go down at a faster rate than someone driving less miles.
NADA doesn't - but the settlement buyback calculations do.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
I disagree with the title of this thread. Our car, today, with this many miles, could be turned in for buyback for about $1200 less than we paid for it if I count the $1K I've already received from VW. A nice new car, driven 44K for 3 years, for around 2.7 cents per mile?* Come on!

* I'm obviously not counting what we've paid for fuel, and I've done all the service DIY apart from the complementary services.
 

PFCoppinger

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The other issue is if your car is totaled between now and September you're out of the deal. Since fixes are not even supposed to happen until then you're gambling every time you drive. Not sure why that language was allowed to get in.

Where is that language, exactly?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I disagree with the title of this thread. Our car, today, with this many miles, could be turned in for buyback for about $1200 less than we paid for it if I count the $1K I've already received from VW. A nice new car, driven 44K for 3 years, for around 2.7 cents per mile?* Come on!

* I'm obviously not counting what we've paid for fuel, and I've done all the service DIY apart from the complementary services.

Or, you could (gasp..) just keep on driving that nice car!!! :)

Seriously, these crybaby threads disgust me. I only wish my life was so perfect all I had to do was complain about my awesome fun to drive super fuel efficient car. :rolleyes:
 

okieB7

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Feb 5, 2014
Location
USA
TDI
2014 Passat SEL
I don't get all the butthurt.

It looks like most everyone is going to wind up with one of the cheapest per month to operate new cars you could have ever bought.

My buyback is actually more than what I originally paid. $30k for my 14 SEL....I will sell for that all day long.....I paid less than 28K.

Whats even better is I get to drive it for 2 more years, completely free of depreciation.....lol....I will take that deal all day long also.
 

swampyankee

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NE
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I don't get all the butthurt.

It looks like most everyone is going to wind up with one of the cheapest per month to operate new cars you could have ever bought.

My buyback is actually more than what I originally paid. $30k for my 14 SEL....I will sell for that all day long.....I paid less than 28K.

Whats even better is I get to drive it for 2 more years, completely free of depreciation.....lol....I will take that deal all day long also.
I agree.... I think people might not have cut good deals for themselves when they bought..... It is amusing to say the least
 

PFCoppinger

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I'm not so sure the mileage penalty is so steep, at least on an ONGOING basis. I drive 25,000 +/- per year. You get the first 12,504 miles for free, and after that it looks like there is a deduction of around $390 for each 5,000 miles driven in excess of those free miles. That works out to around 7.8 cents per mile, but only for those excess miles.

So for me, I would probably "lose" around $978 off the buyback amount for driving the car an extra year, which in reality is less than 4 cents for each mile actually driven.
 

jrock

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Or, you could (gasp..) just keep on driving that nice car!!!


Seriously, these crybaby threads disgust me. I only wish my life was so perfect all I had to do was complain about my awesome fun to drive super fuel efficient car.
Could not agree more. I can't wait for this site to return to what it once was.
 

okieB7

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USA
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2014 Passat SEL
I'm not so sure the mileage penalty is so steep, at least on an ONGOING basis. I drive 25,000 +/- per year. You get the first 12,504 miles for free, and after that it looks like there is a deduction of around $390 for each 5,000 miles driven in excess of those free miles. That works out to around 7.8 cents per mile, but only for those excess miles.

So for me, I would probably "lose" around $978 off the buyback amount for driving the car an extra year, which in reality is less than 4 cents for each mile actually driven.
If you drive that much your gonna be paying extra depreciation regardless.

But you would normally lose more than 978 for depreciation in a year for a newer car.
 

r11

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###############

What is totally lost in the minds of VW & friends @ US Govt, is that 99.9% will still need a car, after we get the buyback check !

###############

If we were selling, seller with 108K miles vs one with 40K, would have gotten less and that would be fair.

But, if he/she doesnt want to sell and expects to drive the car for another 10 years and 500K miles, force-taking the car away from the owner at "NADA fair value", plus extra stipend that gets nullified by the high mileage, is not fair. What kind of punishment is there for VW in this case ? NONE !

Not only that, the owner will have to either go through horror of buying a used car using the "NADA fair value" trade-in $$$ - which CAN NOT BE DONE, as it is the trade-in, not the sale price for a used car.

Or use the money to buy a much much more expensive new car, with loan and stuff - which we seller didnt expect having to do for another 10 years.

What is totally lost in the minds of VW & friends @ US Govt, is that 99.9% will still need a car, after we get the buyback check !
 

ajlockfeld

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How much is enough?

One of the things that bothers me is the mile deprecating. I'm at 51,000 on my 14 Jetta.
Another concern is, when I replace my car I have no trade. So now I have to pay extra sales tax.
That is a good point. But looking at the fleet of vehicles one your list, maybe you don't even need another car?:p
 

ajlockfeld

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This is the part that I think people are missing. The settlement may not be great today, but it is really good in 1 to 2 years when we actually turn in our cars for the buyback.

My 2010 Jetta 6MT will get a little under $16,000 today, but that number will stay pretty constant the next 1 to 2 years. I'll probably drive more than the 1,000 miles a month figure, but even then, I'll only "lose" $500 over the next couple years.

The question I have is, how will an insurance company handle your claim if your car is totaled? That is the only risk I see in keeping the car. The price of our cars is now fixed. What other cars can say that?
For those of us with older cars (e.g. my '09 JSW) there is also the risk of a major repair issue out of warranty. I recently had to spend half of the $1K VW hush money on replacing a sensor that had failed.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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But, if he/she doesnt want to sell and expects to drive the car for another 10 years and 500K miles, force-taking the car away from the owner at "NADA fair value", plus extra stipend that gets nullified by the high mileage, is not fair.
No one is forcing you to sell the car back. And driving a lot of miles costs money. Some in fuel and repairs, but also in reduced value of your car. That cost doesn't really matter until you try and sell the car.

If you don't want to give the car back, don't. Wait for the free fix and take the compensation that goes with it. That way you have cash for other maintenance and repairs.
 

tobianogreg

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No one is forcing you to sell the car back. And driving a lot of miles costs money. Some in fuel and repairs, but also in reduced value of your car. That cost doesn't really matter until you try and sell the car.
If you don't want to give the car back, don't. Wait for the free fix and take the compensation that goes with it. That way you have cash for other maintenance and repairs.
There won't be a fix for him. Hence no compensation either. Then what?
 
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