The People's Porsche

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
After lots of planning, most of the parts are coming together.

In September, a friend came across a 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo roller, sent me a link and thought, no way, ugly, not interested.... less than a week later it was in my garage :D


It’s a really neat vehicle; the engine up front, transmission in back(RWD). Swap out the 5th gear and you have a racing/highway driving TDI trans. Ratios are slightly shorter through 4th gear, then taller in 5th(with a cheap 5th gear swap)

Up front, the splined shaft sticks out of the torque tube, same pilot bearing size, here I will adapt a highly modified MKIV bell housing, or maybe a B5 bell housing.


A few things are up in the air regarding the bell housing, I will have to relocate a MKIV starter so it doesn't hit the firewall, or incorporate a B5 starter into the pass side of the bell housing.

The intercooler on this car is nice size, 18" long, 5" tall and 5" thick!



The dash is pretty neat; it has a boost gauge and oil pressure incorporated right into it. I will likely re-purpose the boost gauge into an oil temp gauge with the proper circuitry to make it work. It takes a 0-5V signal from the research I've done.


Other nice features include most of the M030 option(minus the LSD:(), nice staggered rims and tires, non-cracked dash, clean interior(replaced the front seats) and likely other things I'm missing. The M030 option is a bunch of cool stuff like Koni coilovers, upgraded sway bars, etc.

The 944 turbo trans is very robust, it is a 016 Audi transmission, lots of 5th gear options out there, but the 944 S2 5th gear will put me about 75-100rpm lower than a 5spd TDI trans.

Lots of people do LS1 swaps with these cars. Other swaps I’ve seen are 20VT(5cyl), various LT1 and other GM swaps, one electric swap, one guy is working on a VRT swap and supposedly there is an AHU swap locally, I have still yet to get ahold of this guy.
 
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JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
After checking out all my various options for motors, I checked out everything from the 5 cylinder VE to the new CR. I settled on the ASZ PD130 for a few reasons. 1. it’s a very strong, robust motor, nearly identical to the ARL PD150, but a reasonable amount cheaper. 2. EDC15 – should make wiring a little easier. 3. It was actually cheaper to buy and ship than BHW that needs a ton of work!

Both Scott Dewitt and RyanP were very helpful with getting me quotes and various options – thank you both for all the help. I ended up buying the ASZ from RyanP, all in all they were both priced reasonably close.

Just cracked the crate open:


Uncovering some stuff to reveal the headless motor


The head should arrive in the morning. I couldn’t believe how quick this thing got over here! Next day!

I bought enough stuff from Ryan to put this motor all back together(minus turbo and a few gaskets), two sets of ARL head bolts, exhaust flange, oil feed line, timing kit, and a few other misc pieces. I also had him pull the go pedal, various wiring and all the coolant hoses.

Next part of the project is the most fun.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
A 130hp Porsche would be pretty lame in my opinion.

First off, I plan to get this swap on the road as quickly as possible, work out all the bugs, and max out the injectors, maybe drive it for the season like this. The stock injectors in the ASZ will be able to push about 200-220whp.

These plans may change as I get into it; I have a long ways to go, lots of work to do, lots of learning and lots of parts to source for my end goal.

My end goal looks something like this:




Holset HE341CW over a GTB2056VL

This combination will effortlessly push 40psi all the way to redline, as much air as I could possibly need. In fact, my calculations show that it will push much more than 40psi. The cool part is that these turbos should compliment each other so well that 35psi by 2000rpm should be possible. I will likely run just the GTB right away to get it set up and probably won’t put the Holset on until the motor is built. I will post up compressor maps and plots later on. I have some really neat ideas as to how I will be mounting the turbos and I plan on having both mounted up right away, then just take the HE341 out. At the point the Holset goes in, I’ll likely add an intercooler(between stages) in front of the AC condenser. The way I have the routing figured out, it will be VERY clean and nice looking. The extra 6” from the motor to the radiator should make it easy.

It’s pretty common for this motor to run 250BHP or more on stock internals with just a GTB2260VK and injectors. I may stick the second turbo on and run it at a very low PR early on for zero lag and use stock injectors until the bottom end is built.
I’ll need to source a clutch/fw setup that will handle the crazy amounts of torque I’m hoping to get out of it. I still need to determine which bell housing I’m going with for sure. I will be getting a 01M case from greengeeker next week which might work well with a 02M throwout bearing.
End goal is to have low compression pistons, Rosten rods, ported head, Colt regrind, and upgraded valve springs. I will also need a girdle and potentially need to go dry sump. The dry sump will be nice for these upgrades but it is not needed. It might however be needed just to clear the subframe on the 944.

I will have LOTS of questions on the way, I have a few wiring diagrams, both 944 and PD but have a long ways to go. Once I get it laid out, I should be able to connect most of the dots.
 
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JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Various tools for the job, please ignore my mess!




I will likely utilize some larger equipment at work.
 
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JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Parts needed still:

I will be populating and editing this frequently.

B5.5 BHW starter - found

BHW AC bracket potentially -

BHW harmonic balancer to go with it - found

Upgraded valve springs - got custom springs

Upgraded Rods - Rosten I beam rods - bought

Diamond shims - flywheel and crank sprocket - Rosten?

Girdle of some sort

01E / 01A / 012 trans case - Scott Dewitt. Received 3/16/12 Thanks Scott!

240mm longitudinal flywheel/clutch combo.
Longitudinal 1z flywheel would be perfect.

Various 944 parts
- "batwing"
- splitter/front lip
- oil pressure sender
- coolant temp sender
 
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JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Sure, I'll take you for a ride after you get the wiring all done! ;)

Its a 1988, the wheels are 17" 911 turbo twists - which I believe to be replicas because I think factory turbo twists were 18".
I think they're 7" wide in front and 9" in back, maybe 8 and 10"
 

NoJoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
the 2056vl is rare(that was my first choice when I started) and a little smaller than the vk

because you have space; run the Holset first then the 2056vl on the outside

It will prevent bottleneck'ng...trust me
 

NoJoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
You will not need an external wastegate that way either
 
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JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Do you mean on the hot side? I guess I hadn't really put much thought into doing it that way. I plan on running a decent size(TBD) wastegate to bypass the GTB2056VL into the Holset. I'll have to get TDIMeister's input on this one. The cold sides would still have to run HE341 into the GTB
Here are the maps, they aren't quite the correct maps, but very close.

GTB surge line is plenty far to the left and the HE341 should be very close to the HY35, same size housings and supposedly the same wheels. - incorrect. map isn't quite right
45psi overall boost, 1600-5200rpm by 200rpm increments(blue dots), 35psi by 2000rpm, 45psi by 2400rpm. I wonder what it will do in the real world.
various efficiencies not taken into account
 
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NoJoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
compressed first by the 2056vl then into the Holset

exhaust first into the Holset then into the 2056vl

in other words...opposite from a traditional compound system
 

mlemorie

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Location
Romulus Michigan
TDI
2004 Jetta
I always thought that the larger turbo drew from the atmosphere and fed the smaller turbo, but the smaller turbo was fed exhaust first and then to the larger turbo. Atleast thats how I think it was on the CAT engines we had back in school. That was also 3 years ago so my memory could be off. Sweet project either way, looks like you got a beautiful shell to start off with too!
 

ItsADiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Location
Papillion, Nebraska
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Subscribed!

Once this project is done, it's gonna be one sweet Porsche/TDI conversion!!! I'm gonna stay tuned for when its all finished and the OP wants to sell it and start another project haha. (as if you would wanna get rid of a car like that) but just saying...... DIBS! haha.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
I always thought that the larger turbo drew from the atmosphere and fed the smaller turbo, but the smaller turbo was fed exhaust first and then to the larger turbo. Atleast thats how I think it was on the CAT engines we had back in school. That was also 3 years ago so my memory could be off. Sweet project either way, looks like you got a beautiful shell to start off with too!
This is the proper way of doing it. I'll do a little research into what NoJoke is talking about to see if I'm missing something. The Holset won't fit on that side of the engine either, so it would be a pretty ugly mess of pipework :p
 

K.I.T.T.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Europe
TDI
PD75
Loving this! And FWIW, the 2056VL should spool up pretty much like a VNT17 (maybe a little quicker!) and be good for at least 250 BHP. The stock heads on these start getting a bit restrictive around the 270BHP mark.

Ash :)
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Thanks for the info Ash! It would be really interesting if it would spool that quick alone.

I exchanged a few PMs with Whitbread regarding porting, I might have him do it prior to assembling the motor.
 

Houpty GT

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Corrado
You are building my car! Very nice. I want to see what your solution for the starter is going to be. I was realy just thinking about bashing the firewall or making a cutout pass through for it.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Are you doing the same swap?

My starter solution will likely be a longitudinal starter, with a modified bell housing, I'll cut and weld.

Head just arrived I'm going to order all my parts from UK, shipping service is better from there. :D
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
Sweet but diesel 016 5th gears do not exist anymore. If you can find a used diesel trans then grab it!
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Sweet but diesel 016 5th gears do not exist anymore. If you can find a used diesel trans then grab it!
Covered that here:
The 944 turbo trans is very robust, it is a 016 Audi transmission, lots of 5th gear options out there, but the 944 S2 5th gear will put me about 75-100rpm lower than a 5spd TDI trans.
The cool part is that 944 S2 guys want Turbo 5th gears for a better racing gear, I bet I can do an even trade.
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
Covered that here:


The cool part is that 944 S2 guys want Turbo 5th gears for a better racing gear, I bet I can do an even trade.
There's a bit of misinformation, the lowest diesel 5th gear is .64. the 944 S2 is 0.78, I'm not sure how you end up with the higher gear ratio having less RPM's than a diesel gearbox.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
There's a bit of misinformation, the lowest diesel 5th gear is .64. the 944 S2 is 0.78, I'm not sure how you end up with the higher gear ratio having less RPM's than a diesel gearbox.
Ring and pinion.
http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/trans-04.htm
1st 10:35 (3.500)
2nd 17:35 (2.059)
3rd 25:35 (1.400)
4th 29:30 (1.034)
5th 35:29 (0.829)
Rev 12:42 (3.500)
FDR 8:27 (3.375)

OAL ratio(944 turbo +S2 5th)
1st 11.8125
2nd 6.9491
3rd 4.725
4th 3.4898
5th 2.46338

http://www.vwtransaxles.com/code.html
EGR 02J
1st 3.78
2nd 2.12
3rd 1.36
4th .97
5th .76
Rev 3.39
FDR 3.389

OAL ratio(EGR 02J)
1st 12.8036
2nd 7.1779
3rd 4.609
4th 3.291
5th 2.562



Jeremy: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+people's+car
 
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Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I hadn't thought of the 944 this way until today, but it looks like a Panamera coupe!
It's amazing!
What I considered to be one of the better appearing Porsches has just now become one of the fugliest!


 

isonic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2003 Golf 4door 5spd
I hadn't thought of the 944 this way until today, but it looks like a Panamera coupe!
It's amazing!
What I considered to be one of the better appearing Porsches has just now become one of the fugliest!


Hey Lug, I think one of your Nuts is loose! Probably not one of the fugliest Porsches ever :rolleyes:
 
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