The magic word for Detroit automakers is trucks (and SUVs)

Powder Hound

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Your opinion wouldn't happen to be influenced by the fact that US consumers have been in love with trucks and SUVs for more than 20 years, would it? To the extent that small car manufacture is being abandoned by Ford and GM, IIRC.

I would figure that small car makers aren't that pleased about it though.

Cheers,

PH
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I'd like to point out that the sales are somewhat skewed with this virus craziness. Consumer spending trends are way off in many segments. The rental car companies, for instance, have had a not insignificant impact on car (not pickup) sales figures due to this. My brother in law, who works for Enterprise that is HQ'd here in STL County, has said that for the very first time EVER, since they've been in business since 1957, has had a 100% complete freeze on ANY new vehicle purchases. Enterprise also owns Alamo and National. They usually purchase, rent, lease, and sell thousands and thousands of cars. But now they are not only not buying any, but have been forced to rent lots all over just to park all the ones they already have and cannot sell. And the sale lots they have are offering smoking hot deals on almost new cars, which means the new cars are having to compete with those, which slows the new car sales even further.

And to give yo an idea of the buying power of just this one company, Enterprise, they were able to coerce GM into making some 60k+ Impalas special just for them without side curtain airbags to save money. Just that one model. That's a LOT of cars.

But construction and such, as well as a lot of fleet sales for commercial/vocational use, have been effected less. So those sales which are largely pickups, continue unabated. Which is why despite a dropoff in our shop's overall customer traffic, the F150s from all the companies we service continue to be frequent sights here (there is a ubiquitous white F150 with a company name emblazoned on the side in the shop right now, and at least two more outside from two other companies, not to mention several white G-vans).

I do know the trend for trucks goes up and cars goes down, but this out of the ordinary situation may present some extremes that would not otherwise have existed.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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From the article: "Truck sales during the past month have been driven by discounts and manufacturers’ offers of no-interest loans for as long as seven years, said J.D. Power’s Jominy."

Some people are buying vehicles now becuase the total deal seems too good to pass up.

The used car market is going to be where the values are. As oilhammer mentions, there are so many used cars out there right now that dealers will be desperate to get rid of them. I have my eye on a couple of buyback TDIs that I think will go for cheap. Just have to figure out if I want one.
 

Oberkanone

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Used cars

From the article: "Truck sales during the past month have been driven by discounts and manufacturers’ offers of no-interest loans for as long as seven years, said J.D. Power’s Jominy."

Some people are buying vehicles now becuase the total deal seems too good to pass up.

The used car market is going to be where the values are. As oilhammer mentions, there are so many used cars out there right now that dealers will be desperate to get rid of them. I have my eye on a couple of buyback TDIs that I think will go for cheap. Just have to figure out if I want one.
Used car prices have not decreased at the retail level. Wholesale prices do not reflect market prices to consumers due to lack of volume and restrictions on sales at dealerships.

My prediction is used cars will not be a bargain. The exception is if you are trading in your vehicle. Dealers will use the skewed auction values to offer low values on trades.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
They've dropped like a stone. Retail, wholesale, new, used, everywhere. We are a dealer here, and trust me the price drop has been substantial. The thing is, the ones that have not dropped in price, are not selling. You have to look at the average prices of sold items to get an idea of the real value. And it has gone down a lot. Six months ago, a car we would have easily sold right away for $10k will now sit and sit even at $7k. And this loss at retail rolls uphill: the auctions are jammed full, and lots of cars cross the block with hardly any bidders, which means they sell for less, and the reason they sell for less to wholesalers is because there is less money to be made on retail.

We have a herd of G2500 Savannas here that we are moving for a local company that just went under... but they are hardly the only company with a fleet of plain white 3/4 ton cargo vans that has gone out of business. The market is full of these.

Of course, it is no surprise: the liquid capital in the consumer market is FAR less with 30,000,000+ people suddenly on unemployment. And the new stuff that is selling is largely for people who have lots of capital as well as excellent credit, as well as these increasingly longer and longer loans (EIGHT YEARS!!! :eek: ).

If you are a cash buyer right now, cars are an awesome bargain.
 

turbobrick240

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There should be deals to be had on both new and used cars. People aren't driving as much or buying as many vehicles. That puts the buyer in a strong position from which to negotiate.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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I Agree with Oilhammer- the wholesale market is crashing but in the retail market the dealers are trying very hard to maintain their margins so prices aren't dropping (yet). There's a lot of stupid corporate management going on- Like Ford selling bonds at 9% so they can offer 0% financing! Hertz has around a million cars in their fleet and could still be saved from bankruptcy by transforming themselves into a full service mobility provider- renting, leasing, sales, ridesharing, delivery service, etc.. Sent an e-mail to them proposing that a few days ago, haven't even received a boilerplate reply- I suspect management is too busy packing their golden parachutes to be bothered. Seem to be some good deals on diesel pickups if you can tolerate FCA products, they have thousands of half tons starting at a bit over $30k with 4WD.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Up here in Minnesota don't see many 2WD pickups, so the going price seems to be a bit over $30K for a 4WD one. Been casually shopping for a new diesel that's bigger than my Golf, seen a few Chevy/GMC 1/2 ton pickups but they're up in the high $30ks and $40k for a Ford 1/2 ton.
 

turbobrick240

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A friend of mine bought a nearly new diesel Colorado 4wd last year. Nice truck, but the bed is tiny(extended cab). The half ton diesels get just as good fuel mileage, and cost about the same with much better utility. If they were moving the GM 1/2 ton diesels for $20k range I'd be very tempted.
 

tikal

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Your opinion wouldn't happen to be influenced by the fact that US consumers have been in love with trucks and SUVs for more than 20 years, would it? To the extent that small car manufacture is being abandoned by Ford and GM, IIRC.

I would figure that small car makers aren't that pleased about it though.

Cheers,

PH
Well you got a point there. Sedans are being replaced more and more by SUVs. Wagons were already rare before and soon will be available in the used market only.

Regular unleaded gasoline prices might stay relatively low for some time, so gasoline powered trucks and SUVs will continue to dominate the US market in my view.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The four cyl diesel Sprinters went away after 2016 for us, unfortunately. The new Sprinter's base engine is a 2.0L gasser bolted to a 9sp automatic. It actually does reasonably well, but even with two more gears it cannot match the diesel for fuel economy.
 

tikal

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The four cyl diesel Sprinters went away after 2016 for us, unfortunately. The new Sprinter's base engine is a 2.0L gasser bolted to a 9sp automatic. It actually does reasonably well, but even with two more gears it cannot match the diesel for fuel economy.
Something like this no longer sold new?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264727886139
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Too bad they didn't bring these in (or the e-class, for that matter) with the new OM654 engine. It looks impressive.
 

tikal

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Nope. I got one of the very last ones imported.
Good for you Brian!

Frankly, I got a laugh when I look at this German diesel vehicle (2015 Sprinter 4 cylinder with SCR/DPF) with such size and cargo/passenger capabilities being more efficient (taking account the size vs MPG) than a US made light duty diesel truck with DPF/SCR that has much less space/cargo (Ram 1500 Ecodiesel RWD).
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I had been contemplating replacing our Eurovan with something larger, especially after my one son's spinal fusion surgery meant he sat about an inch taller in his wheelchair and was now past the height limits of the side door without having to duck his head. And this is difficult when your spine no longer bends. Plus, while it was *possible" to secure both boys' wheelchairs in the Eurovan, it was a tight fit and it took up all of the floor area aft of the front seats.

So I started shopping new vans. The full size van list in this country is made up of an array of very different vehicles, with various pros and cons.

Ford Transit

Ram Promaster (Fiat Ducato in disguise)

Mercedes Sprinter

Nissan NV

GM G-van (Chevrolet Express/GMC Savanna)

Nissan got ruled out right away: no diesel, and body on frame design lifted from the Titan pickup meant its interior volume is very poor, and it would require the higher roof to accommodate the wheelchair lift.

G-van got ruled out: no high roof option, like the NV just giant gas engines* available, and body on frame still meant cramped interior (*the 2.8L 4 cyl diesel as used in the Colorado/Canyon became available later).

Promaster got ruled out because it would also require the tall roof option AND Fiat does not sell a "factory" passenger version here, just a cargo van with windows... I would have had to send it to a third party upfitter for the rest of the interior aft of the B-pillars. Its diesel engine was also an added cost option (zero chance I was going to get one with leftover minivan Pentastar/6T powertrain, LMAO).

Transit got ruled out last because like the Promaster, it was also going to require the taller roof option as well as added cost diesel engine, although Ford DOES offer a nicely fitted passenger version... although I might add it is almost *too* nice inside... like carpeting which I did not want.

So, it ended where it started with the Sprinter, which based on experience of servicing all the above mentioned vehicles was going to be my first choice anyway. Standard diesel engine. Standard roof height easily inhaled the wheelchair lift with zero modifications to the body. And even in its smallest configuration, it still affords enough room to leave the first three position rear seat in place while having plenty of room for the lift and both wheelchairs lashed down.



My younger son only got the chance to ride in it a few times before he passed away, but at least we did get some time to go places comfortably in it.

It gets between 24 and 28 MPG, and that is driving with little regards for fuel economy. Usually 75+ on the highway. It is speed limited to about 83 mph but could probably tag 100 with ease. It only spins 100 RPMs faster at 80 than my BHW Passat does (so slower than an ALH car at the same speed).

The new Sprinter, which came out in 2019, graced the V6 diesel with the same 7sp automatic my 4 cyl has (they formerly used a 5sp) so I am sure their fuel economy is better than before, but likely not as good as this.

I think Dieselgate really hampered a lot of interest in diesels in general. A modest output torquey 4 cyl diesel would be a great option in a base model full sized pickup.
 

turbobrick240

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That Sprinter has excellent headroom. At 5'7" I think I could stand fairly comfortably in there. Glad your youngest got a chance to enjoy riding in it. The spaciousness and light make for a really nice environment.
 

AntonLargiader

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FWIW this is a bit tangential but it is relevant to buying a new van. Who would know about this stuff unil too late.

A friend recently bought a Promaster City, and subsequently discovered that the HVAC system forces recirc to be on if the outside temperature is above 75. For his driving this is a major irritation. When on recirc it does a fresh air purge every now and then but it isn't anything that you can control. Dealership says it is not reprogrammable.
 
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