The Light truck market

woofie2

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Location
Republic of Southern Illinois
TDI
Former TDI owner
The Cummins lie-o-meters are notorious for being 4-5 mpg optimistic. It takes hand calculating many tankfuls to get any kind of accuracy. I could tag 55 mpg on the mfd in my Golf, but in real world use it averaged more like 42 mpg.
I remember tracking my 2003 Jetta in a spreadsheet, hitting 55 and 54 MPG in back to back tanks (with lows in the 30's, while I was racing)

I noticed the rams do not have a "fuel amount used" to you can see how far off they are at fillup.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Last edited:

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
The Cummins lie-o-meters are notorious for being 4-5 mpg optimistic. It takes hand calculating many tankfuls to get any kind of accuracy. I could tag 55 mpg on the mfd in my Golf, but in real world use it averaged more like 42 mpg.

Amen!


Get me about at least 50,000 miles of hand calculated tankfuls and let the truth start emerging ...
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah I don't think anyone *should* be purchasing a big heavy duty pickup for fuel economy. The Cummins' best attribute is its power and durability. However, it still likely equals are betters the gasoline V8s in the half ton trucks, and it likely doesn't make a substantial hit if you are towing or hauling a heavy load. And that is with lower gearing (since 3/4+ ton trucks always have that) and a heavier curb weight, largely due to the engine weight alone.

I know my current and previous trucks consume about the same amount of fuel, 1996 F150 4.9L regular cab 5sp vs. my 1990 F350 HD 7.3L turbodiesel Supercab automatic. And the F350 didn't care if there was something hooked behind it. Like, at all. In fact it actually ran better I think with a car or trailer hooked behind it. Of course, this was old school diesel, no catalysts, no EGR, no DPF, no nothing.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
:D
"Yea, I get like 200 miles to half a tank, it does pretty good." :rolleyes:
used to do that all the time in my dad's early 80s F350. I can't remember the tank size but that thing would always run about 200 miles on the first half of the tank. If you were lucky, you got about 50 out of the second half though.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
brother in law just got a 2108 3500 crew cab, single rear axle, manual base tradesman(vinyl floors) 4x4, it shows 20MPG at 70 MPH on the highway.
I am averaging 21 MPG daily over the two weeks I have been in my 1500 Laramie ecodiesel and got 23MPG doing 80 on the interstate. (this pinball weather sucks the mpg down about a half mpg per day daily driving) below 30*F.
At almost 17k miles, my lifetime average in my 1500 ecodiesel is just a touch over 22 mpg. Best tank ever was coming down out of the Blue Ridge at 27 mpg.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I agree that an inline 6 has some advantages over a V6. Better balance is the main one, but generally a simpler easier servicing is another. V6s became popular due to packaging, that is pretty much it.

V6 engines if set at 90 degrees almost always require a balance shaft to offset the uneven vibrations. The VAG 3.0L V6 and the MB 3.0L V6 diesels both have them, not sure about the VM 3.0L V6. But for sure the GM 3.0L I6 does not.

MB did a TREMENDOUS amount of R&D before making the switch, but BMW has held on to the inlines. Volkswagen's VR6 engines combine the advantages of an inline with better packaging of the V. Too bad they chose to run the camshafts with chains, otherwise that engine family would be pretty darn good.

Only downside I can see with I6s is that they often have exhaust manifold warping/cracking problems, especially if they do not employ some form of split manifold arrangement.
 

soot1

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Currently none. Formerly: 2010 VW Jetta TDI 6M, 1993 Dodge Ram W250 Cummins 5M 4WD, 1990 VW Jetta Diesel 5M, 1986 VW Jetta Diesel 5M, 1980 VW Uabbit Diesel 4M. Currently driving 2018 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD.
MB did a TREMENDOUS amount of R&D before making the switch, but BMW has held on to the inlines.
About two years ago, Mercedes introduced their new line of I-6 engines, both gas and diesel. The diesel comes in two power/torque variants, with the more powerful unit generating very impressive 340 PS and 750 N.m (552 lb.ft) out of a 2.9-liter displacement. That engine has some very novel features, such as all-steel pistons and only 4 mm wall between adjacent cylinders. I am convinced we will never see that engine (its diesel variant) on this side of the pond.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Hasn't Daimler already killed all the diesels in North America except the Sprinter van?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Sadly yes. That inline 6 would be lovely in an E Class (I'm not a truck guy). I love the six in my 335d: I think that the only engine that's supposed to be smoother than an inline 6 is a V12. Maybe that's why I have this unreasonable desire to own an S-Class with one of those.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The new Sprinter is the only diesel, but sadly, the 4 cyl did not return with it, just the V6. Which is certainly not a bad engine, but I think the 4 cyl option is great. I love mine.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Not to go too far off track, but we recently learned that Mercedes didn't include a 4 cylinder engine in the current Sprinter because, in the 2500 and 3500 trucks, when heavily loaded, water pumps were failing. The water pump is variable, controlled by vacuum, and when it fails it pumps coolant throughout the vacuum system. If the CEL is ignored, it can get as far as the brake booster and turbo actuator. We just made a repair kit for it: https://www.idparts.com/om651-vacuum-system-water-pump-repair-kit-sprinter-om651-p-12239.html

The OM651 seems to work fine in the 1500, but in RVs on the higher GVW platforms it's been a problem.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
There is no "1500" 906 Sprinter. 2500 8550 GVWR is all the single rear wheel models, regardless of roof height or wheelbase (so even mine, which is the smallest 906, standard wheelbase, standard roof) EXCEPT for the "super singles", which are a 3500 single rear wheel but with a larger goofball rear tire that is nuts expensive and exclusive to JUST those, and of course since they are different than the front, no rotations. The 3500 dual rear wheels have all six same size tires, not sure of their GVWR but it is higher. They also get a 7500 pound tow rating ( regardless of engine or body) whereas the 2500 is only 5000 pounds (again, regardless of engine or body). Super Singles were only available in the higher roof and longer wheelbases I think. Which is odd, because the 3500 DRW was available in the standard wheelbase high roof.

I have never heard of any water pump problems, I will be on the lookout for that. All the 4 cyl ones I service have had exactly zero issues of any kind. And some of them are pretty loaded (HVAC company has theirs loaded down, ladder racks on top, etc., and they run them hard). I think our highest mileage ones are about 120k now. Sprinter forum has a couple running much higher than that, though. This was my primary reason why I wanted one instead of the V6, although the V6s have not been super problematic for us either aside from the early SCR stuff... although I did have to do a glow control module this week on a 2008... with 356k miles on the clock.

The new Sprinters' passenger version also lost the low roof setup, one more thing that makes mine one to hang on to. The Promaster is like that.

A coworker left here a month ago to move to SC to work for a van upfitter that set up shop 7 miles from the plant. They are doing all the new Amazon Sprinters.

They are not messing around, they've processed several THOUSAND already, with a bunch more to go... the plant is barely able to keep up.

 

dogdots

Vendor
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Kansas City
TDI
None
I just had to dodge one of those new Amazon Sprinters in New Jersey this morning :p.

I might get flamed for this but I am seriously considering a gasoline powered truck this time around. My Powerstroke got totaled last September and I still haven’t replaced it. I just don’t need the torque for hauling cars anymore now that I’m covering ALL of North America now for my day job.

Whatever I buy will spend most of its time at the airport 15 miles away.
 

woofie2

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Location
Republic of Southern Illinois
TDI
Former TDI owner
I might get flamed for this but I am seriously considering a gasoline powered truck this time around. My Powerstroke got totaled last September and I still haven’t replaced it. I just don’t need the torque for hauling cars anymore now that I’m covering ALL of North America now for my day job.
Whatever I buy will spend most of its time at the airport 15 miles away.
A coworker went with a 2018 gas Silverado 2500 then he was complaining about 16MPG. I honestly bought my Ecodiesel because I needed a truck and a daily driver, not to haul or tow except on occasions.
 

soot1

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Currently none. Formerly: 2010 VW Jetta TDI 6M, 1993 Dodge Ram W250 Cummins 5M 4WD, 1990 VW Jetta Diesel 5M, 1986 VW Jetta Diesel 5M, 1980 VW Uabbit Diesel 4M. Currently driving 2018 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD.
I might get flamed for this but I am seriously considering a gasoline powered truck this time around.
I was faced with the same dilemma in the spring of last year when I had to decide on replacement for my 2010 Jetta TDI. At first, the thought of driving a gasser sounded like a heresy and high treason, but then I realized it's all about the cost of owning and operating the vehicle. I pulled a clean sheet of paper and a pen and started writing both positives and negatives of both types of engines, what my needs are, then I found out what is available, whether it would fit into my garage, considered how much driving I would be doing, and did the numbers. The biggest distractor for a diesel was the complexity of the emissions system, how prone to failure the system is and the cost to fix it. It didn't help that some diesels (Titan XD Cummins, for example) won't start if the ambient is below the freezing point of the urea, which is 11 degrees F, if I'm not mistaken. The biggest distractor for a gasser was, of course, the unimpressive fuel economy. When I was done, the numbers and all other factors pointed me in the direction of a simple, reliable and time-proven gasser, so don't be too harsh on yourself if you arrive at the same conclusion I did.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If choosing what to drive is about total cost of ownership, why would someone (a) buy new, and (b) buy a truck at all? Unless you frequently use the truck's capabilities of hauling stuff or towing, driving one full time isn't economical compared to a car. I used to travel by air a lot for work (by a lot I mean 200 days a year). If I still did that I'd buy electric, because I can use HOV lanes when alone on my way to the airport, and I get preferred parking and free charging in the airport.

Part of why I still drive my ALH Jetta Wagon is it's cheap to own and drive. I still drive a lot of miles a year (about 30,000 total) and the MKIV is as close to perfect as I can get. Low maintenance even at its age, 48-50 MPG like clockwork regardless of how fast I drive, and it can carry 99% of what I ever need. If i need to carry something larger i can have it delivered, ask one of my friends with a truck, or rent. Far cheaper overall, especially given what any new truck costs these days, diesel or gas.
 

soot1

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Currently none. Formerly: 2010 VW Jetta TDI 6M, 1993 Dodge Ram W250 Cummins 5M 4WD, 1990 VW Jetta Diesel 5M, 1986 VW Jetta Diesel 5M, 1980 VW Uabbit Diesel 4M. Currently driving 2018 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD.
If choosing what to drive is about total cost of ownership, why would someone (a) buy new, and (b) buy a truck at all?
I don't drive a truck, so I cannot answer the second part of your question. However, I'd like to offer my own insight into why people opt for a new rather than used vehicles.

The first and perhaps the most important reason is that buying a used car is always a leap of faith. You simply cannot know for sure what the previous owner(s) did to the vehicle. And I am not talking just about those signs that are clearly visible even to the layperson, such as dents in the door panels or a flat tire. I am talking about things that even professional mechanic would have difficulties detecting without extensive tests or taking the vehicle apart, such as neglected regular preventive maintenance. If you end up buying a car that falls into this category, in the end, you may end up paying more for the car plus required repairs than you would for a brand new one.

Second, some vehicles hold their values so well that even after 3 years and 35,000 miles on the clock, the price difference between used and new is so small that it simply doesn't make any sense to buy a used one. This is my personal experience from last June. At that time, I already decided my next ride after the Jetta would be a 4Runner. The first thing that crossed my mind was that I'm going to buy a used one in great shape that just came off of a lease with no more than 3 years and 35k on the clock. I expected to pay significantly less than I would for a new one. No luck there, I tried dealers and private parties alike, but the best I could get was around $ 3k less than the invoice on a brand new one, plus the number of available used units was very limited. So, I decided to get a new one and configure it exactly as I wanted.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
My preference is to buy cars new and keep them a long time, but with the depreciation rates on near luxury and luxury cars it's foolish to buy new. Trucks can be similar, although diesels tend to hold their value better than gasoline pickups.

As far as I can calculate my '11 335d was about $52K new. I bought it two years ago with 48K on it for just over $15K. That's a lot of depreciation in 6 years. The car has been well maintained and turned out to be a good one, although I hear you about not knowing how a car was treated by the previous owner.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I couldn't easily get by without a pickup, but I wouldn't dream of driving it around every day. I *could* get by with a trailer behind a car for most things, but it would be clunky and inconvenient. Plus, used pickup trucks are CHEAP and are everywhere.

One of the reasons I do not drive mine unless I need to is its abysmal fuel economy, though. If someone sold something like it that was capable of getting into the 30s, which is totally possible since the technology already exists, I'd drive one more. But the manufacturers won't do that for us at a price point that makes any sense. So my $3k F150 that gets 16 MPG sits much of the time. I am not buying a 30 MPG pickup for $50k that has a bunch of stuff I do not need or want, without the one thing I DO need and want: the proper 8 ft bed. I also do not really relish the idea of a rando-fail slushbox liability hanging over my head either.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Must be an area thing, here 4x4 pickups are like gold. Anything under 5 grand is going to be a rusted out beat to death brodozer. Pretty funny what I see on craigslist around here some time.

What cracks me up is the amount of people who use them for daily commuter vehicles. One guy at work buys a BRAND NEW F350 super duper cab to commute to work. At he trades them in every year. I think I would rather wipe my rear end with money that do that...don't even get me started with the idiots who buy decent diesel HD pickups just to jack them up to the sky and blow black smoke everywhere. Way to go to take yet another good diesel work pickup out of the market and make it a brodozer. :rolleyes:


Ok I am done ranting. :)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Rust belt stuff is worthless here. If they are like gold there, you could make a mint transporting stuff around the country. You cannot throw an empty Skoal can in these parts without hitting a 4WD pickup.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Just glanced on CL and there are a bunch of trucks in the 10-15 year old/100K mile range with manual transmissions for about $5K. That actually seems high to me, but it's a lot less than a $60K new diesel. And I still don't need one.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I don't drive a truck, so I cannot answer the second part of your question. However, I'd like to offer my own insight into why people opt for a new rather than used vehicles.

The first and perhaps the most important reason is that buying a used car is always a leap of faith. You simply cannot know for sure what the previous owner(s) did to the vehicle. And I am not talking just about those signs that are clearly visible even to the layperson, such as dents in the door panels or a flat tire. I am talking about things that even professional mechanic would have difficulties detecting without extensive tests or taking the vehicle apart, such as neglected regular preventive maintenance. If you end up buying a car that falls into this category, in the end, you may end up paying more for the car plus required repairs than you would for a brand new one.

Second, some vehicles hold their values so well that even after 3 years and 35,000 miles on the clock, the price difference between used and new is so small that it simply doesn't make any sense to buy a used one. This is my personal experience from last June. At that time, I already decided my next ride after the Jetta would be a 4Runner. The first thing that crossed my mind was that I'm going to buy a used one in great shape that just came off of a lease with no more than 3 years and 35k on the clock. I expected to pay significantly less than I would for a new one. No luck there, I tried dealers and private parties alike, but the best I could get was around $ 3k less than the invoice on a brand new one, plus the number of available used units was very limited. So, I decided to get a new one and configure it exactly as I wanted.
You missed one point that I tried to show my daughter. If you have to borrow money to purchase, the interest rates on new are always lower than used. Many times through the year, you can get new with 0% interest. Even to those that don't like to borrow money, that's still a good deal. She bought a small Buick SUV through Carvana that I think she could have gotten about the same deal on new.
 

woofie2

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Location
Republic of Southern Illinois
TDI
Former TDI owner
So I have had my 2018 Ram 1500 for a year and a half now, been fairly impressed,
22MPG average MPG, for a big 4x4 truck
One fill up of 27 gallons, in my 26 gallon tank.

yes, I quickly put updated software on it, to fix transmission shifting lag and turbo lag that made it almost undriveable, at times.
Still have a hanging "EGR Recall" for the plastic intake manifold bursting into flames from an EGR leak(EGR is not cycling currently) and a new recall for crank sensor failure that could delaminate and stall the engine.
Truck has been pretty much a daily driver with some towing here and there.
Tows over 12,000# without straining, (overloaded 24' trailer when moving 5 miles) could have used trailer brakes, but took it slow.

still looking at the options of the new models, and 2500 trucks. As the main bearings want to fail on the 3.0L v6, and wife wants a big boat or family camper.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
The main bearings are unlikely to fail on the V6 if you use 5w40 oil, which is what the manufacturer intended. Chrysler tried to coax better EPA numbers out of the truck and specified 5w30. That didn't work so well. They've since switched to 5w40.
 
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