The Gizz needs some help...Engine Trouble

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
Well I'm hoping this isn't major but...I'm sure it is!
Driving home and all of a sudden I hear a loud clattering (loud engine) with puffing sounds every engine cycle. When at an idle it runs very rough with puffing sounds and ticking with thick black smoke out the tail pipe, coupled with slight backfires. I'm thinking I dropped a valve or something. Any advice on how to proceed.
Previously noted very slight increase in rpm on startup occasionally and periodic sputtering at low rpm.
02 Jetta TDI, manual, 436,000 kms. Proper oil and regular servicing.
 
Last edited:

icecap

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Chilliwack & Mission BC
TDI
2006.5 Jetta TDI 5Spd Black Anthracite Pkg 1
Canadian_Grizzly said:
Well I'm hoping this isn't major but...I'm sure it is!
Driving home and all of a sudden I hear a loud clattering (loud engine) with puffing sounds every engine cycle. When at an idle it runs very rough with puffing sounds and ticking with thick black smoke out the tail pipe, coupled with slight backfires. I'm thinking I dropped a valve or something. Any advice on how to proceed.
Noted very slight increase in rpm on startup occasionally and periodic sputtering at low rpm.
02 Jetta TDI, manual, 436,000 kms. Proper oil and regular servicing.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. If you pull the injectors you will probably find one that has a wet oily and possibly chowdered tip if something like a dropped valve was flying around inside a cylinder. Take the valve cover off and you will probably see something amiss and you are on your way to pulling the head.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
icecap said:
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. If you pull the injectors you will probably find one that has a wet oily and possibly chowdered tip if something like a dropped valve was flying around inside a cylinder. Take the valve cover off and you will probably see something amiss and you are on your way to pulling the head.
Good plan.

Sorry to hear this Grizz.
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
I've never pulled a head before...so instructions would help. I won't consider anything else but Frank to do the head if thats what it is...
But to pull the head I believe I will have to do a full timing belt, correct? I might have to order some tools at this point. Last timing belt was about 20,000kms ago.
To look at the bright side this happened 200m from my shop and I was able to coast the remaining way. The engine didn't die and will start but it sounds like crap.
 

Russnut

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Layton Utah
TDI
03' Jetta TDi
That's similar to what happened when i blew an intercooler pipe up. Lots of smoke, weird noises...
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
Just talked to my mechanic...not your typical stealership, pricey but they do good work and often offer free advice. I described the syptoms and he thinks it might be just an injector. I'm going to take a look with my fingers crossed.
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
OK I have determined that it is cylinder #2. 2nd in from passenger side. I swapped injectors and still running the same so it must be either in the head or piston. I think I'm going to go ahead and order a head from Frank and go from there. When the head is removed we'll see how the piston looks. Even if it were nothing with my mileage I think it prudent to put a fresh head on the engine. Thoughts???
 

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
Canadian_Grizzly said:
... with my mileage I think it prudent to put a fresh head on the engine. Thoughts???
I disagreee that the head is a "wear item" that should be replaced at a particular mileage point. Something is definitely amiss, but the the head isn't on the prudent to replace list. Something has to go wrong first.
 

737tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Location
Scurry TX
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI, Tornado Red (faded), 238,000 miles!
Before I got too carried away with pulling the head do a compression test on that #2 cylinder that will definately tell you if you have a valve problem. Lets do some troubleshooting before throwing parts at it. Not being sarcastic here, you may very well be right, I'm just say go a little farther in verifying failure.

737tdi
 

Zero10

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Location
Calgary, AB
TDI
05 Golf TDI PD, Tiptronic
I may be way out of line here, but I recall reading a few threads saying that if the lifters aren't replaced they typically fail in the 200-300,000 mile range (Which this engine would fall into), it's possible you are dealing with a lifter failure, in which case the head would likely need to be replaced.

Might as well have the shop do a compression test and pull the valve cover to see if it helps pin down what you're dealing with before you go ordering too many parts.
 

DPM

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
I'd definitely pull the valve cover and have a look at the the lifters, see if any look damaged or hung up.
 

737tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Location
Scurry TX
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI, Tornado Red (faded), 238,000 miles!
Whitedog: Isn't that just silly stupid. At the most an hour just to remove, install and look. What another hour to do a quick compression check. O.K., let's say they are slow, 4 hours. Unbelievable. Later.

737tdi
 

joetdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Location
Midwest
TDI
2-2002 Jettas W/Auto
I am in a position to see a lot of theses TDI's and I can tell you that people with the ALH engine should get their lifters replaced about every 150,000. This would be the only weak spot in this engine if you want to call it that. I have seen many of theses break a lifter at the 180,000 to 200,000 mark. This has happened on the very early TDI's (1996-1998) but, I think because there where not as many of theses as the ALHs it seems like there were less.

I had one that broke a lifter at 585 miles the guy picked it up on a Friday and had it towed back to us on Sunday. This was a new car.

Oops now you know where I am coming from.
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
Thanks all, some are being a bit cryptic in there posts, however I'm well aware of the the weakness of a some of the 02 ALH Camshafts and Cam followers.

At this point I'm waiting to see what the actaul downfall of my engine might have been. The head should be removed on tuesday and I'll get a chance to see what the actual cause of the problem is.

This has been an amazing car so far and I'm not going to srite it off too quickly. If it needs a new head...I know Frank will deliver quality. If its the whole engine I know Aaron "bleached bora" can do this as well.

Keep up the comments they are helpful and you can all be assured I will give you the full diagnostic when I have that available.

Thanks again,
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
The diagnosis is in... lifter (cam follower) self destructed. I asked if there was any damage to the piston and they said there is no evidence of this. So thats good news as I'll just need a new head. I'll be calling Frank in the morning.
 
Last edited:

Zero10

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Location
Calgary, AB
TDI
05 Golf TDI PD, Tiptronic
When the lifters come apart the valves don't get hung open they stay shut too long (too little lift on the valves), so the pistons and even the valves themselves can be fine. The thing to be worried about the most are the lifter bores and the camshaft. If the bores are badly damaged it can be cheaper to replace the head than to have the bores fixed (if it's even possible). However if the bores are good you could be in for as little as lifters and a cam shaft. At your mileage you might as well have the head removed and properly gone over (which it sounds like is already the plan). You probably already know this, but all those little bits of metal that came off (assuming this, no pics ;) ), are somewhere in your engine, time to flush out the oil passages and drain all the oil in the engine as well as change the filter.

Best of luck getting it straightened out and back on the road.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
How much metal did it make? If it's a bunch, you may want to think about pulling the pan to be sure that is all flushed out.
 

HopefulFred

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
Golf, 2006, Indigo Blue
Pictures would be lovely...

Any speculation as to an immediate or long-term cause of lifter failure? Just lots of hard work over many miles?
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
I'll get pics but you will have to be patient...its in a shop two hours from home. Looks like I'll be one of the ones in the future to recommend replacing lifters after 200,000 miles.
 

Canadian_Grizzly

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
British Columbia, Canada
TDI
02 Jetta TDI
My bad, its my own pet peeve when folks don't post the results. Well I sent the head to Frank and he rebuilt and had it back to me with a quick turnaround. AMAZING workmanship... blew away my mechanic. Anyway 164,000 kms (almost 100,000 miles) later still going strong.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
Thanx for the update. At first I thought someone was hijacking your thread.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Byron,

I had to read the thread through... I thought this was RECENT NEWS!! Heh...

As it stands, we have some rebuilds of ours with well over 200,000 miles on them.

There are still only two rules:

Do it once and do it right
Build it like you're gonna buy it.

Thanks for your business. I appreciate it.
 
Top