The Garrett GT2052 aka "Look Ma, No Vanes!"

[GTiTDi]

I recently upgraded the turbocharger on my 91 GTI. I had conferred with Mr.Chill about a good turbo upgrade suggestion and he told me about driving a mk2 Jetta Coupe with an AHU and a GT2052 and that it was an absolute blast to drive. That was last fall/winter IIRC.

Needless to say, after a lot of hard work, I am thrilled at the results!
It is pretty clear that the GT2052 is much more of an upgrade than a Ko3 hybrid. Here are a couple of comparison shots between the GT15 and GT2052

The exhaust side...in the right corner is the SAAB 9000 exhaust flange that I used to fabricate the downpipe

First I had to fab a steel motor mount bracket in order to make room for the larger turbo. It wouldn't even fit close to the manifold with the stock aluminum bracket in there.

plenty of clearance!

after gusseting, grinding and painting

Once the motor mount was taken care of I could figure out exactly where to mount the turbo. Clearly an adapter plate needed to be made if I wanted to use the stock 1Z/AHU manifold, since the new turbo has a rectangular 4 bolt flange and stock is three bolt triangular.

I ended up using studs and copper nuts for final assembly..bolts just for test fit

 

[algirdas]

My AHU wants one!

 

[TDIMeister]

What's the A/R of the 2052?

 

[all-starr-me]

Where did you get the turbo from? What flange is used on this, a t25 or t3?

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

The flange appears to be a T25. Why not use a GT2052V or GT2056V? Spools much better than a standard GT20.

 

[GTiTDi]

What's the A/R of the 2052?

Compressor A/R: 0.51/Turbine A/R: 0.50
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3867361&postcount=11

Where did you get the turbo from? What flange is used on this, a t25 or t3?

ID parts.com

The flange appears to be a T25. Why not use a GT2052V or GT2056V? Spools much better than a standard GT20.

I didn't want to follow the herd so I kept it waste gate. Also I have never had to clean a carbon and rust jammed waste gate! Spool better? This thing spools fine! Lag? What lag?

 

[GTiTDi]

Turbo inlet pipe.

Oil return line made from original 1Z return line fittings. NO leaks.

Down pipe. Welds are fugly. Oh well its a MIG welder.

 

[GTiTDi]

engine bay as of 7/28/12. It is already different! I need to take some newer pics!

 

[andy2]

Looks like the same gt2052w I'm using on my AHU powered suzuki samurai.Mine was off a 4.2L perkins I think.This turbo spools up very quickly.I can make 17 psi in neutal(I,ve palyed with the wastegate adjustment also).I bolted my turbine housing directly to my AAZ ko3 exh manifold.It took some drilling/tapping and porting but it works and no gasket/no leaks.I also did the same with my gt2056v but onto an AHU exh manifold with no adapter on my ALH.

 

[GTiTDi]

Looks like the same gt2052w I'm using on my AHU powered suzuki samurai.Mine was off a 4.2L perkins I think.This turbo spools up very quickly.I can make 17 psi in neutal(I,ve palyed with the wastegate adjustment also).I bolted my turbine housing directly to my AAZ ko3 exh manifold.It took some drilling/tapping and porting but it works and no gasket/no leaks.I also did the same with my gt2056v but onto an AHU exh manifold with no adapter on my ALH.

I am so pleased with this turbo so far! Also I would like to build a TDI samurai some day! I have seen your builds and videos! Inspirational man! I haven't heard of anyone else who CASTS THEIR OWN CYLINDER HEAD!!!! I absolutely love fabrication projects, and have some friends who have experience casting various metals! I will have to learn from them!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

This looks great. Makes me want to get another B4 and update it. Nice fabrication and assembly, Chris. I talked with Burpod this AM and we decided that you need to look at your MAP sensor to figure out what's happening with the boost fluctuation.

Let me know how the PP764s work out.

 

[andy2]

Thanks,I feel that the gt2052w turbo is a great turbo upgrade for the 1Z/AHU.Perhaps this will inspire others to bypass the bolt on "upgrade" turbo and acutally put a real turbo on.I supose there is too small of a market for someone to make a kit for these A3/B4 TDI's ??

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hello,

Thanks for creating this thread! I'm constantly on the search for the "right" turbo. My experience with UPsolute's T3 kit left a bad taste in my mouth with regards to experimenting with untested, unproven upgrades. Ironically, my T3 was the first one installed after they had sold a run of GT20s which were reported to have worked well (2052 or 2056... not sure). I might've been happy had we "got it right" the first time.

The VNT17/22 has shown me a lot of promise. I also maintains somewhat of a stock appearance. So I've been considering the switch. Your success with the 2052W is VERY COOL! I'd love to see how it performs on the dyno.

Needless to say, I am thrilled at the outcome!
It is pretty clear that the GT2052 is much more of an upgrade than a Ko3 hybrid. The exhaust side...in the right corner is the SAAB 9000 exhaust flange that I used to fabricate the downpipe...

I thought I had found a flange that would work at http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/...d=776&osCsid=b41427ddeccb7fc3a5d727b0562c5f1c. But I think it's actually too large. Not sure, though, since I'm no Saab expert. A good source of the correct flange would be helpful. BTW, what size downpipe and exhaust are you using? I can't recall.

after gusseting, grinding and painting

I bought a rear mount that looks just like this. I just need to install it so that me not having it will no longer be an obstacle.

Clearly an adapter plate needed to be made if I wanted to use the stock manifold, since the new turbo has a rectangular 4 bolt flange and stock is three bolt triangular.

Having these available would be AWESOME! I can turn a wrench and swap parts. But metal fab is my weakness.

I didn't want to follow the herd so I kept it waste gate. Also I have never had to clean a carbon and rust jammed waste gate! Spool better? This thing spools fine! Lag? What lag?

AGREED! I prefer to go with what works. However, if the herd is right then the herd is right. The K03/K04 hybrid was the "right" choice at the time since VNT swaps were not commonplace back then and another lag-free W/G turbo with good top-end just wasn't proven. I don't think I'd buy another K03/K04 unless I had a sudden turbo failure and just needed to get the car back on the road ASAP and had no time for exhaust work.

Thanks,I feel that the gt2052w turbo is a great turbo upgrade for the 1Z/AHU.Perhaps this will inspire others to bypass the bolt on "upgrade" turbo and acutally put a real turbo on.I supose there is too small of a market for someone to make a kit for these A3/B4 TDI's ??

"Too small of a market" only means fewer parts need to be stored. I agree with the sentiment stated by some vendors that stocking specialized MK3 downpipes is financially unwise. But I'm hoping to see Peter stock the downpipe flange for this turbo, perhaps an exhaust manifold flange adapter, and then appropriate oil feed/drain fittings. As a less expensive alternative, a list of parts needed to fit the turbo as well as their sources of supply would be just as good.

Good news is it's a wastgate turbo, so ECU base flash and N75 will be the same... One disadvantage of a VNT in MA is that the car won't show emissions readiness. Only relevant for 1998 cars now, but for them it's a problem.

The attractive thing about staying wastegate for me is that I can make the swap with no major software hurdles and have the option to return to stock if needed (yeah, RIGHT!). Emissions readiness is important to me, too. Sure, I don't currently need it. But I'm a forward thinker who can predict a day when I may need to pass an emissions test. It's only a matter of time...

I look forward to learning a bit more about this setup.

Scott

 

[GTiTDi]

This looks great. Makes me want to get another B4 and update it. Nice fabrication and assembly, Chris. I talked with Burpod this AM and we decided that you need to look at your MAP sensor to figure out what's happening with the boost fluctuation.

Let me know how the PP764s work out.

First off; The Power Plus 764's are totally different than the Titan 764's I tried temporarily which Burpod got from Frank06! My car actually feels powerful now!
I installed the new nozzles yesterday afternoon, pop tested em and checked the balance and IQ after a test ride. Checked it again after some high speed hammering and they are still within spec. Doesn't smoke too much but I might still hammer mod it since the IQ won't go any higher than 2.8.

As far as the boost flakiness is concerned, it is basically an issue of the size difference between stock and the GT2052 affecting the response of the N75. I spoke with VWMikel on the phone yesterday and we discussed it and I am going to look into either a Dawes device or a cheap electronic boost controller.

The boost fluctuation doesn't seem to be as noticeable now that it is getting the right amount of fuel, and it only occurs if I have my foot buried. If I back out of it ever so slightly it pulls smoothly and rapidly.

Little car + Lotta Torque=

 

[mrchill]

The purpose in searching for and testing this turbo was to give A3\B4 owners a choice. VNT options are much more expensive to do...especially when you are not fabricating yourself. This exercise was to give folks an option that is excellent and doesnt require a euro tune for those in emissions states like me and you can actually run it with a regular stage 3 tune and its fine in case you are on a budget. Adding fuel adds smiles. And its a relatively easy conversion to do. Once it becomes more common...the parts will get cheaper too.

 

[GTiTDi]

I thought I had found a flange that would work at http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/...d=776&osCsid=b41427ddeccb7fc3a5d727b0562c5f1c. But I think it's actually too large. Not sure, though, since I'm no Saab expert. A good source of the correct flange would be helpful. BTW, what size downpipe and exhaust are you using? I can't recall.

That doesn't appear to be the style of flange that I used. Mine came off of a 1992 Saab 9000 turbo. I noticed a Volvo XC70 downpipe had a similar flange as well.
For the rest of the exhaust I am using a 2.5 inch down pipe straight into a side exit.

 

[vwmikel]

The attractive thing about staying wastegate for me is that I can make the swap with no major software hurdles and have the option to return to stock if needed (yeah, RIGHT!). Emissions readiness is important to me, too. Sure, I don't currently need it. But I'm a forward thinker who can predict a day when I may need to pass an emissions test. It's only a matter of time...

Just because software has VNT control doesn't mean it can't also have readiness.

 

[GTiTDi]

Engine bay as of 8/12/12

MAF delete! I highly suggest snagging the boost pipes off a Volvo 740/940 turbo, they come in handy! I have used one pipe for three different parts! An expert euro car guru should be able to identify the various parts I use! Makes junkyard searches easier! The checkered duct tape covers up ugly hotglue that I used to seal the pipe to the airbox. I would like to weld a flange to it to bolt the pipe to the airbox just like the MAF did.

How I mounted the mk4 3bar MAP sensor. Not sure if this has been attempted before but so far it works. I love how VW used the same sensor base for IAT and ECT....the factory sensor blanks come in handy!

This Saab boost pipe has a built in M10x1.0 bung for an IAT sensor that I thought could be handy for a W/M nozzle....

I used a couple 4AN to M10x1.0 fittings threaded into the oil filter housing and turbo feed to utilize an Aeroquip high pressure oil line that I got from a small aircraft...I am going to make a better fitting line once I receive my fittings from Summit racing...they are on perpetual backorder..
I moved the low pressure oil sender to the cylinder head.

 

[mrchill]

Out of control!

 

[all-starr-me]

I see street toys has 3 bolt to t25 adapters already and some nice cast t25 manifolds, if only someone could sell them for less than $600. I wouldn't get a turbo from him but those look nice.

So are you using the idparts turbo or one from a Saab 9000? I can get a variety of these from my local turbo place, https://www.dwperformance.com/Pages...qsearch=&search_type=Product&class=&advanced=

I'm tempted to try one if the holset hx25 I have doesn't work out.

 

[vwmikel]

I see street toys has 3 bolt to t25 adapters already and some nice cast t25 manifolds, if only someone could sell them for less than $600. I wouldn't get a turbo from him but those look nice.

Something like this might make life simpler: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-CAST-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item416950791f&vxp=mtr

 

[GTiTDi]

Out of control!

I see street toys has 3 bolt to t25 adapters already and some nice cast t25 manifolds, if only someone could sell them for less than $600. I wouldn't get a turbo from him but those look nice.

So are you using the idparts turbo or one from a Saab 9000? I can get a variety of these from my local turbo place, https://www.dwperformance.com/Pages...qsearch=&search_type=Product&class=&advanced=

I'm tempted to try one if the holset hx25 I have doesn't work out.

I used a new turbo from ID parts. The downpipe flange came from a Saab 9000.

Something like this might make life simpler: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-CAST-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item416950791f&vxp=mtr

I thought about that but it would require something like this

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Which I was not willing to do!

 

[mrchill]

I have several of those eby manifolds...he is right. Ask how I know. Also, the hx25 works too. Need a lot of fuel...but it spools nicely. I

 

[Abacus]

Very nice.

But won't a retune be needed to accept and recognize the 3 Bar MAP?

I am seriously thinking of this swap for the winter since I am in need of a new turbo.

How are the EGT's? Higher or lower than the previous turbo.

What modifications did you have to make to the oil feed line? Was the adapter block you milled just a thick chunk of aluminum?

 

[GTiTDi]

Very nice.

But won't a retune be needed to accept and recognize the 3 Bar MAP?

I am seriously thinking of this swap for the winter since I am in need of a new turbo.

How are the EGT's? Higher or lower than the previous turbo.

What modifications did you have to make to the oil feed line? Was the adapter block you milled just a thick chunk of aluminum?

Yes a retune is necessary to realize the full potential of this turbo. I am adding a manual boost controller (dawes device) to improve the waste gate operation.
The EGT's are lower it is a larger turbo!
Aluminum is not a suitable material for a turbo flange. It is steel.

 

[Abacus]

Aluminum is not a suitable material for a turbo flange. It is steel.

That's what I thought, but it looked like aluminum, so I thought I'd ask.

What modifications did you make to the oil lines?

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hello,

I see street toys has 3 bolt to t25 adapters already and some nice cast t25 manifolds, if only someone could sell them for less than $600. I wouldn't get a turbo from him but those look nice.

Yes. I've considered buying the adapter as shown here: dead link. But I don't know if all ...d more options for tubular manifolds? Scott

 

[GTiTDi]

That's what I thought, but it looked like aluminum, so I thought I'd ask.

What modifications did you make to the oil lines?

You must have read through too fast. Re-read it it's there!

 

[GTiTDi]

Hello,



Yes. I've considered buying the adapter as shown here: dead link. But I don't know if all ...adapters before! I like mine better though :D

 

[Alcaid]

Cool build! Dyno runs happening anytime soon?