The end of an era

[tobsav]

I have been driving my 2003 Jetta Wagon since I drove it off the floor at the dealer...cost about 17K back then.
I LOVE this car, but it has come to the point that rust is winning....
I honestly think it is a lost cause... most likely will NOT pass inspection this October. Just going to cost to much to keep ahead of it.
SO..my question...getting a low mileage used Jetta TDI wagon... around the 2013 age group or thereabouts. Will I hate it ?... I am under the impression that my 2003 ALH1.9 L engine is perhaps the best they ever made. Mine is chipped and is just a delight. Continues to run flawlessly after 260,000 miles.
Not sure I will love the newer ones.
Thoughts ??
thanks
D

 

[JETaah]

I will cost more to fix than the ALH when things like glow plugs and injectors go bad. Consider that.

 

[KITEWAGON]

Go drive one. They aren't hard to find on VW dealer lots. If you don't like it then it sounds like you have until October to look south for a clean 2003 Wagon from a warm weather state like Arizona. Fly and drive.



I loved my 2003 wagon. My favorite car ever, but the rust was coming for it so I sold it to someone who could wring more life out of it. I like my 2014 a lot, but probably not as much as my 2003. Maybe once its tuned I'll like it more.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I would drive a '15 GSW and see what you think. I was never a fan of the MKV or VI Golf or Sportwagen, but I could give up my ALH for the '15 GSW. If someone put a gun to my head.

 

[tobsav]

I guess my other thoughts are that they went thru a horrible time with fuel pump/systeam problems, intercoolers filling with water and freezing, and of course the entire emission debacle. It seems that there is a hole from 2012 to 2015 where you might get one without some pending disaster.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

Maybe get a quote from a body-shop on how much it would cost to fix the rust and paint the car.

It might be cheaper than getting another used car with unknown issues.

 

[tobsav]

REALLY hard to get anybody to "do rust".... it never lasts and turns into a pain for the poor bastard that tried to fix it.... I have found No-one to take it on.

 

[AndyBees]

Not wagons, but just sharing my story!

A few weeks ago, I slapped on a new TB kit, clutch pulley, transmission oil change, oil change, oil filters, new used AC compressor with new pulley bearing, recharge AC, new FCM, new return 3mm diesel hoses, all new vacuum lines, front crank seal, etc., at 369k miles ... soon to be my son's car (2000 Jetta, owned it since 44,980 miles). It is practically oil free, top and bottom. ....... minor rust and very few dents.

About 5 months ago, I purchased my brother's 03 Jetta which has an 01 engine with about 300k miles (car odometer shows about 270k miles)..... it needs a TB job! I know the engine as I was the one installed it. Thus, I plan to keep it at least 200k miles!

 

[jettawreck]

Not wagons, but just sharing my story!

A few weeks ago, I slapped on a new TB kit, clutch pulley, transmission oil change, oil change, oil filters, new used AC compressor with new pulley bearing, recharge AC, new FCM, new return 3mm diesel hoses, all new vacuum lines, front crank seal, etc., at 369k miles ... soon to be my son's car (2000 Jetta, owned it since 44,980 miles). It is practically oil free, top and bottom. ....... minor rust and very few dents.

About 5 months ago, I purchased my brother's 03 Jetta which has an 01 engine with about 300k miles (car odometer shows about 270k miles)..... it needs a TB job! I know the engine as I was the one installed it. Thus, I plan to keep it at least 200k miles!

Yes, the advantages of not living in the land(s) of winter road chemicals/salt.
My '01 (the original "jettawreck") may see its last season after this winter as I drive the 2003 only in our non-winter months (all five of them) to try to conserve at least one ALH for the future. It's a shame, as the '01 only has 180k miles on the chassis, but prior owner accident damage and extensive bodywork are failing and if things work out it may become another powertrain donor for another gas-TDI conversion project. Otherwise, it's a parts mule.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I invoked the 12 year rust warranty on my wagon when it was 11 years and 11 months old: Got a new tailgate, fenders, and rocker panel rust repair. That was four winters ago. Still looks great. The bottom of the car has always been pretty clean. I take it to a car wash that washes the bottom weekly in the winter, and the car has always been garaged (unheated). I think those things help a lot.

I did find a body shop that will repair rust, and they cleaned my my '99.5 Golf as well. Not inexpensive, but honestly I'd prefer to drive that 20 year old car (built in Sept. '98) than a new one. So it was worth the money to me.

 

[tobsav]

Thank you all for the info.....
I did a bit of "hide the bad ****" work yesterday.... basically filling voids with foam grinding away the crap and using glass bondo to finish off. It is NOT a lasting repair but will buy time.
Who knows.. I may just keep doing that as long as I can get away with it.
I still will be keeping an eye on the market for a replacement. Even looked at some subarus online yesterday...(I know...heresy).

 

[turbocharged798]

Foam is the worst because it hold water and causes the rust to progress even more. Fiberglass is a good somewhat non-correct rust repair and helps slow the rust.

 

[jettawreck]

My front (cheap aftermarket replacements, but lasted 12 years) look the worst. I may yank the OEM ones off the totaled out/rear ended 2003 parts car and stick them on and hit them with some paint. Or maybe just change out the hood too and leave the whole front black. Rockers and rear quarters are going bad too, but not worth the effort at this stage.

 

[tobsav]

Foam is the worst because it hold water and causes the rust to progress even more. Fiberglass is a good somewhat non-correct rust repair and helps slow the rust.

yup...not doubt,,,, but there was no glassing what I was dealing with and the best I could do was to fill voids & cover over exposed foam with filler and then prime. H2O will get there,,, eventually... such is life. Yes I could go find replacement body parts, weld stuff, do any number of things, but......... really, how much misery is too much misery? This wonderful old car owes me nothing. 15 winters of snow and salt and sanded roads...is alot. No Garage. NH is harsh.

 

[SilverGhost]

Hmm, I have a 2002 Jetta GLS with 1.8T and failing Jatco transmission. Black paint and beige heated leather seats. No a spec of rust, engine is original and 172K miles, typical headliner starting to droop around sun visors.

I wonder what transmission tobsav's wagon has? Put the two together and have another ALH MkIV for a few more years.

Jason

 

[tobsav]

Hmm, I have a 2002 Jetta GLS with 1.8T and failing Jatco transmission. Black paint and beige heated leather seats. No a spec of rust, engine is original and 172K miles, typical headliner starting to droop around sun visors.
I wonder what transmission tobsav's wagon has? Put the two together and have another ALH MkIV for a few more years.
Jason

of course no rust!..you live in TN.
I have a 5 spd manual tranny

 

[Matt-98AHU]

Well, if it came to it and you were dead set on still having an ALH powered mk4, there's quite a lot of rust free examples West of the Rockies and reasonably rust free in the South. Problem is, as with any car that age, is figuring out how well it was taken care of, if at all, and how much will it take to get back into mechanically great shape?

It's still astounding to me, someone who grew up in the Mid West and wrenched on cars there for a number of years, how so many 15-20 and even 30 year old cars can look like they were assembled about a month ago, still have the original coloring on all the underbody fasteners even. And undoing the exhaust union sleeve like nothing.

And, they're at the point where the prices are about as cheap as we're likely to see them. I suspect that as supply of decent condition cars dries up, eventually these will start to appreciate a little in value again for the ones that are genuinely nice.

 

[SilverGhost]

Well, mine has been refreshed with new axles, brakes, shocks, struts, bushings, tie rod ends and ball joints. Biggest issues are all the emissions spaghetti and the solenoids in the Jatco. I have been toying with the idea of swapping a manual into it, but going further and swapping a TDI as well would be fun. BUT with a 10mo/old I don't have the time.

Anyone want a rust free, mechanically sound shell to work with?

Jason

 

[turbocharged798]

Well, if it came to it and you were dead set on still having an ALH powered mk4, there's quite a lot of rust free examples West of the Rockies and reasonably rust free in the South. Problem is, as with any car that age, is figuring out how well it was taken care of, if at all, and how much will it take to get back into mechanically great shape?

It's still astounding to me, someone who grew up in the Mid West and wrenched on cars there for a number of years, how so many 15-20 and even 30 year old cars can look like they were assembled about a month ago, still have the original coloring on all the underbody fasteners even. And undoing the exhaust union sleeve like nothing.

And, they're at the point where the prices are about as cheap as we're likely to see them. I suspect that as supply of decent condition cars dries up, eventually these will start to appreciate a little in value again for the ones that are genuinely nice.

I'll take mechanical work over rust repair any day. Replacing rotted rocker panels, brake lines, ect gets old really quick. Hard to find a decent MK4 around these parts anymore. They are either all beat to death or rusted out, usually a combination of both.


Sounds like I need to head south and find some rust free Mk4s to bring back.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Thank you all for the info.....
I did a bit of "hide the bad ****" work yesterday.... basically filling voids with foam grinding away the crap and using glass bondo to finish off. It is NOT a lasting repair but will buy time.

Who knows.. I may just keep doing that as long as I can get away with it.
I still will be keeping an eye on the market for a replacement. Even looked at some subarus online yesterday...(I know...heresy).

No, not at all. With all the fail built into the CR (2009 to 2014) TDi's as far as the emission system/fuel system goes, I would take a serious look at Toyotta gassers as well.
Go ahead and send a thank you letter to the EPA for mandating emission standard that are unrealistic, do almost nothing for cleaning up the air compared to older regulations and cost car owners thousand$.

Diesels are bad, even if science can't prove they are so they are going to legislate them out of existence for something worse, such as electric cars. Yup, we'll just throw everyone on the power grid because power grid electricity just magically appears at your power outlets.

 

[leafs]

a neighbor up the street has a tdi wagon and it was like overnight the thing turned into a rust bucket. I remember it being pretty clean and then whammo. I don't see many sedans or golf's rust out like that... front fenders of course that is a problem area. but the wagon, the hatch, doors, rear quarters, front fenders, the entire thing is covered in rust. these scientists can't get together and come up with something that isn't as corrosive and still keep the roads clean in the winter... a damn shame.

I remember an older guy sayin you should get your car oil sprayed (krown or whatever) and then drive down a dusty road, like a farm road.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I have a Wagon, I have two friends who have had Wagons for years (now sold) and there are tons of MKIV Golfs and Jettas around IDParts. They all rust in similar patterns, but not always at the same rate. Depends in large part in how they're cared for.

 

[dubStrom]

I have been driving my 2003 Jetta Wagon since I drove it off the floor at the dealer...cost about 17K back then.
I LOVE this car, but it has come to the point that rust is winning....
I honestly think it is a lost cause... most likely will NOT pass inspection this October. Just going to cost to much to keep ahead of it.
SO..my question...getting a low mileage used Jetta TDI wagon... around the 2013 age group or thereabouts. Will I hate it ?... I am under the impression that my 2003 ALH1.9 L engine is perhaps the best they ever made. Mine is chipped and is just a delight. Continues to run flawlessly after 260,000 miles.
Not sure I will love the newer ones.
Thoughts ??
thanks
D

The MKVI/A6 wagons had early HPFP issues, but by the end of the series (2014), they got beefier pumps on the assembly line, and a few other issues were resolved. I just loved my 2014 wagon (6MT).

I have a nice 2015 wagon bought when they were modified and released last year. BUT, IF I was starting over right now, I would hunt down a 2013/2014 6MT wagon. Not from Buffalo or Cleveland, but from Arkansas, Texas, or AZ/NM...I would pay more than I should, and I would procure it, period.

Don't forget about that usable low end torque without FE penalty. And never forget that diesel costs 5-15% more than gasoline, but delivers 20-30% better FE.

If you can find one to drive in ANY condition for test drive, do it, and make your decision if you haven't already. Then start your search!!!

 

[KITEWAGON]

I have a nice 2015 wagon bought when they were modified and released last year. BUT, IF I was starting over right now, I would hunt down a 2013/2014 6MT wagon. Not from Buffalo or Cleveland, but from Arkansas, Texas, or AZ/NM...I would pay more than I should, and I would procure it, period.

I'm curious why you'd go back to the 2013/2014 after owning the 2015. I feel like most people with the 2015's seem to think they are an improvement, except for some concerns about the increased complexity of the drivetrain. Most of the comments that I read refer to them as "more refined" and promote the better fuel economy.

 

[dubStrom]

I'm curious why you'd go back to the 2013/2014 after owning the 2015. I feel like most people with the 2015's seem to think they are an improvement, except for some concerns about the increased complexity of the drivetrain. Most of the comments that I read refer to them as "more refined" and promote the better fuel economy.

Well said. My preference has more to do with refinements and improvements on an established model (MKVI). Problems fixed, production line settled in. For instance... My 2015 has a rattle in the right rear area. I haven't chased it down, but this is fit/finish on a new line..... The MK7 platform is brand new (delayed by dieselgate).I like mine... Take your chances.

 

[tobsav]

3 yrs+ later...310K...still driving this car .......ridiculous

 

[TurboABA]

#yields!

 

[AndyBees]

Well, for about 20 months we've been driving a 2011 VW Tiguan gasser along side the 2003 Jetta TDI. However, since the Tig is awesome to drive, it has been driven the most. But, fuel economy sucks big time with the Tig. From tank to tank, it barely averages above 24 mpg.

So, hence forth, the 03 Jetta will be seeing the roads a lot more. 2000 Jetta that I gave to my son is only up about 11k miles since my post July, 2018. It is now at 380k and starts and runs just fine. He uses it as a relay vehicle with his railroad job.

Anyway, we plan to keep the ALH's on the road well into the future!

 

[turbobrick240]

Sounds like my 2001 F250. Thing was a rust bucket four years ago when I cut out what I could and glassed the voids. Still a rust bucket, and still runs strong. Might not be pretty, but it's just a farm vehicle now.

 

[Dooby6]

My car is 2010 & the rear axel is starting to rust pretty bad, I serviced it last march & painted the rear axel with the used oil removed from the engine, synthetic oil has good anti corrosion properties & doesn't break down very fast.

I serviced my car again today & went to top up my axel cover & the axel now looks pretty good, corrosion stopped, interesting to see how it does long term, with regular top ups, painting actual body panels with burned oil might not be that tidy though.