The Diesel Driver drives the new 2011 Jetta TDI

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
Unfortunately, VW has not increased the fuel economy in the Jetta during the last 10 years, actually the mpg are slightly less than the older 1.9L engines; this is not progress in my opinion. As mentioned before, we may have to wait for another brand, such as Mazda to lead the way.
The replacement for the 1.9 TDI is the (more efficient) 1.6 TDI. The 2.0 TDI is a more powerful, less economy-focused engine. Apparently VW of America thinks Americans prefer power over economy.
Mazda has no plans for a Mazda-designed diesel smaller than 2.0L. In Europe, they use Peugeot 1.6 diesels in some models. Their 2.2 diesel in the 3 and 6 is less efficient that VW's 2.0.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
You should read the first drive review and all of the disgust over on Vortex about the new Jetta. 'Hated it'.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_2759.shtml
"VW has also dusted off its ancient 2.0-liter, eight-valve four-banger — a low-tech, direct descendant of the original Golf powerplant — as the base engine, producing an underwhelming 115 horsepower and 125 lb-ft. The sacrifice for gutless performance ought to be amazing efficiency, but this old mill is only good for a so-so 24 mpg city/34 highway. Don’t expect to see many on dealer lots, however, as its role is to give the new Jetta an unrealistically low starting base price. Most will be endowed with the familiar 170-horsepower 2.5-liter inline-five carried over from the last Jetta and Golf, which delivers an equally ho-hum 23 city/33 highway."

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry... :D:(:rolleyes:
 

BigAndy

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Location
Northern BC
TDI
99 A3
Today's drivers have become accustomed to gadgets and widgets on their transportation. Most of them wouldn't notice the difference in braking if they had drums or disc. And most wouldn't notice the handling difference of independent rear suspension over VW's 'old' axle style. For 99% of what today's driver encounters, the rear drum/rear torsion axle is more than sufficient.

But those are dull and don't sell cars. We all like to think we are Jeff Gordon or Jacques Villenueve and they have four wheel independent suspension, graphite disc brakes and 750 horsepower.

But the mk2 handles very very well, doesn't it?
 
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NYTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2001
Location
Mid - Hudson
TDI
1999.5 Golf TDI AUTOMATIC trans. GLS w/PLX package silver/black cloth
and the mass (sprung / unsprung) and HP of a Mk.II was ? vs. the new Jetta?
 

GTIDan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
So. California
TDI
2010 Candy White Jetta, DSG
You should read the first drive review and all of the disgust over on Vortex about the new Jetta. 'Hated it'.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_2759.shtml
Hated it????? What are you smoking, my friend? I suggest you reread the article with an open mind rather than taking such a negative attitude. JMHO. :)

I found the review straight forward and pretty positive. Sure, they lamented the lack of some equipment but when they drove the car they seemed to like it despite the change in power steering and rear suspension.

Also good news is that should VW miss the mark they can add the multi-link suspension and restore the electro magnetic power steering without missing a beat. So relax...........all is well in the land of VW.

VW's intent for the new Jetta has been rehashed over and over already. As the writer said "looking for the 'real' new Jetta" hold out for the GLI.....or keep the one you have (if you really have one) and enjoy the knowledge your driving a better equipped car.

Drive more/worry less.
Dan
 

Driver_found

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Location
Phila
TDI
Former MKV Jetta TDI 5M, Former 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2015 Mazda 6 Touring 6m
The point is that that when I got my MKV TDI in 2005.5, it was the only one on the road in a 50 mile radius. I was so proud that I had one of the most unique fully equipped, technologically advanced, great handling, benchmark of safety, w/dual climatronic, electromechanical steering, multilink suspension, auto dimming mirror, superior trunk hinges (that vw/audi had been using for over the last 20 years), 50 mpg, and with upscaled interior materials, etc. I got it all for @ 23k. By all accounts, it was a lateral move, if not upgrade from the '03 Passat I was coming out of. It was the best value in that segment, period.

Fast forward 5 years and there are Jettas all over the place. Why? Because for many, it is still the benchmark as the best featured vehicle in that segment, while offering the feeling of a car costing more.

Jump to the MKVI, and you see what appears to be a company riding the wave of a popularity of their previous vehicle, while trying to woo newcomers who might be duped into thinking the new model must be better than the previous one, right? That is always how it is supposed to work, right? Then comes the bait and switch. I've seen this before, and not just with car companies.

So Mr. new first time VW buyer suddenly sees that (If they have done their homework) that in order to 'really' get that new and improved model, he will need to spend 25k for the GLI. What is the point of offering such decanted versions just for the sake of price? If they want market share, flood the rental car market with Jettas. The other car companies are really striving for survival in that segment and are offering some real emerging competition.

Taking a vehicle that was the class of the class- and removing most of the cool features that made it that way, seems like an ill advised brand objective. I've owned lots of VWs, Audis, Mazdas, Subarus and Chevys. My first VW was a 1985 Golf. Even my old 1988 Mazda 323GT had a four-wheel independent suspension and a rear Twin Trapezoidal Link (TTL) system. The Toyotas and Hondas I tried were boring 'driving appliances' to me. The new Jetta seems to aspire to be in the boring crowd. Except for the GLI, or so I've read.
I remember when the B5 Passat came out. It was a major redesign. Then two years later, the B5.5 arrived and became the elegant fully featured car that made people sit up and notice. They even had the W8, and a 4-motion 1.8T w/stick shift model in 2004.

Maybe VW will take the cost savings and put more R&D into camshafts and HPFP units.
They have seemingly offended to core group of perennial buyers to go after the mass market. If history stands true, I think that there will be a swift adjustment in the lineup to satisfy to buying public who still wants the old pedigree and are willing to pay for it.

Was really hoping to jump into a new MKVI Jetta TDI this fall, but I think I'll hold on to my MKV for a while longer to see what will be offered for 2012.
And not just what is being offered from VW either.

(The opinions expressed here are that of a person who raced in SCCA and IMSA for 10 years and has driven numerous makes vehicles of the last 35 years, including an NSU Ro80. Your mileage may vary.)
 
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turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
The new New MKVI Jetta looks like a cheap Hyundai. Rear drum brakes and a prop up hood stick. Can't get any worse that than. For pete's sakes VW, STOP making it bigger and make it BETTER.

Pretty sad when our 11 year old MKIV 99.5 basic GL Jetta is more upgraded than the new MKVI.
 

Cannonball_28

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Wyoming
TDI
Hope to own a Jetta TDI soon
Someone mentioned something about if they really wanted to get the public into the Jetta's, get all the rental companies to get them. Well, I am looking at getting a TDI and have been doing research for a while. About four weeks ago I went out to Oregon for vacation and rented a car. To my suprise, I got a new Jetta with the 2.5. It wasn't a TDI but let me see how it drove. I loved it. Not to mention, it was a really simple version and to be honest I'm not sure what model it was, just assuming it was an SE. When I returned it, the lady in the lot goes, " Are you sure this is a budget rental car?" I said yes maam, heres my contract. She had never seen a rental Jetta before...
 

Cannonball_28

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Wyoming
TDI
Hope to own a Jetta TDI soon
Also, not that I can say much because I haven't ever owned a VW, let alone a TDI, however I can kinda see why VW is doing what they are doing. You get a guy like me who isn't quite sure what they want and doesn't have a ton of money. You have the opportunity to now get them in one of your vehicles that competes with honda and toyota etc... Then they realize how much they like it and wonder what the upgraded models are like and for the next car they jump to an SEL, TDI, or GLI and they are hooked because there are way more upgrades and seems so much more nice, which it would be.
 

Pelican18TQA4

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Location
Philadelphia, PA
TDI
'13 Jetta Hybrid
Driver_found, I couldn't agree more. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it, in the process of pursuing new customers, it seems VWoA will begin to alienate its existing and, as Driver_found so eloquently put it, perennial customers. I completely and fully understand VWoA's pursuit of market share; however, I have to question whether or not they did any research about their current customers and why they buy VWs. Surely it wasn't because of their stellar quality and reliability, since those have been continuously questioned and even tested at times. So what was it about their cars that attracted actual buyers (rather than potential buyers)...did they ever find that out?? I've actually asked a lot of new VW owners this very question and most often the response is that the car looks, feels, and drives like a much more expensive car. I think it was either here or on VWvortex that mentioned VWs have sometimes been referred to as the "poor man's BMW" and from what I've heard and read, that may be true to a lot of current owners as they seek a premium car for a less-than-premium budget.

And as for pricing, since that seems to be VWoA's schtick with the '11 Jetta, let's really compare pricing. The current Jetta S, with the 6-speed auto as the only option, MSRPs at about $19,500, including destination charge. A similarly-equipped Civic (LX) is only about $400 less. Sure, you can get a less expensive Civic (DX), but you're foregoing a lot of features to get to that lower price point and honestly, I don't think I've even seen a Civic DX on the road recently. In my past experience working for a captive automotive finance company, $400 is not a deciding factor for customers between different makes and/or models, and you even get heated seats in the Jetta! The story with the Corolla is similar to the Civic, though it is less, even when similarly equipped. Of course, you forego disk brakes and the IRS, so I would expect it to cost less than the Civic and Jetta.

So basically, I look at it like this, the Jetta will still cost a little bit more than the Civic and Corolla and now the car has basically no advantages and even some disadvantages (e.g., no IRS, rear drums, etc.). Why buy one??
 

domboy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Location
Wilmington NC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI 5spd
I dunno... ask three different VW owners and I would expect three different answers. Mine? I bought my Golf for three reasons - TDI engine, available manual transmission in a fuel effecint vehicle (unlike most hybrids), and I liked VWs due to having grown up with VW Vanagons. That's it. I got a Golf because I like hatches better than trunks. I wasn't looking for a poor man's BMW, or a premium car at that. Sure I like some of the niceties, but I really don't think VW should be a premium car brand. To me VW's have always been different and a bit quirky, not premium, and that's how I still perceive them to some degree (especially the TDI models). The old Vanagons I grew up with sure didn't seem expensive, at least not when we got them (all bought used). Back to the new Jetta, I doubt I could tell the difference between the two suspensions, hydralic steering is fine by me. I do like having disc breaks, as I'm not sure how to work on drum brakes. As other's have said, it looks like most current Jetta owners that bought it as a premium car should look at the GLI for a replacement. Maybe VW should bring a TDI version of the GLI (GLD?) to satisfy the owners that want an expensive, er, premium TDI. Either that or bring a few more Audi TDI models. But then again, how many stripped down Jettas is VW actually going to make and sell? I think my main disappointment is you can't get a basic model with a TDI.
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
There is alto of information out there on the net, compared to five years ago. Now people do alto more research on the net for a new car than in the pass.They will fined out they cheapen the car on the new model year not improved it.Here is a though maybe VW cheapen the Jetta for the USA market to push the new Nms model.
 
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MarcusW

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Location
Munich
TDI
Golf BlueMotion
I have to question whether or not they did any research about their current customers and why they buy VWs. /QUOTE]
I suspect they asked customers of other marques questions, not VW owners. This car is clearly intended to bring in new buyers.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Today's drivers have become accustomed to gadgets and widgets on their transportation. Most of them wouldn't notice the difference in braking if they had drums or disc. And most wouldn't notice the handling difference of independent rear suspension over VW's 'old' axle style. For 99% of what today's driver encounters, the rear drum/rear torsion axle is more than sufficient.
You may be right, but I dont' think VW has a proper excuse for using it's old 2.slow motor. It's not a lack of bells and whistles, it's a lack of good engineering.
 

FowVay

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2000
Location
Georgia
TDI
2009 Jetta returned to der Führer
The price might get people into the showrooms but honestly, VW cars are expensive to own. someone who is in the market for a bargain basement priced vehicle isn't going to be able to afford to own the VW into the future regardless of the type of brakes or steering system.

We have dealerships that are notorious for ripping people off. They are incapable of fixing the vehicles and most private garages are unfamiliar with the intricacies of a VW. If you don't have a CEL the dealership says nothing is wrong. It's a recipe for disaster.. once the market has been saturated. Imagine all of the apartment dwellers that will rely on the dealer network to support their purchase. It just won't work.

It happened with the A4 cars. The Beetle came out in '98 along with the B5 Passat. This got people into the showrooms and got the cars out onto the economy. How many times have we read people say that their Golf/Jetta/Beetle was their first AND last VW? I hear this all the time. Now VW wants to offer a dumbed down Jetta to get people into the marque while not doing anything to address the incompetence of the entire network.

I tell you folks, I don't think anything positive is going to come from this in the long term. VW may get the market share they want today but they're not set up to sustain it and don't seem to care.
 

FredIA

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
North of Cedar Rapids, IA
TDI
2006 A5 Jetta, Shadow Blue, Pkg #1/XM, rear side curtain airbags
It's ugly and a step backwards. It looks like the Ford DI Gas "Eco-boosts" will be my next car after all. Too bad. I do like Diesels.

And maybe I can get away from the local VW dealers too.. that's an upgrade in and of itself.

Fred
 

Pelican18TQA4

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Location
Philadelphia, PA
TDI
'13 Jetta Hybrid
I suspect they asked customers of other marques questions, not VW owners. This car is clearly intended to bring in new buyers.
And that's my exact point. Alienating the loyal VW customers to bring in new ones. Man, this is starting to sound like a cable company :p
 

donfromnaples

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Location
Naples, Florida
TDI
2004 New Beetle Blue and 2009 Jetta TDI Sportwagon
It seems that over the last several years, poor reliability has become a thing of the past which will help.
 

GTIDan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
So. California
TDI
2010 Candy White Jetta, DSG
You want to talk about ripoff dealerships come to So. California and check out just about any Toyota stealership. I took the Camry into one near me for a broken passenger side window motor which just stopped working.......the car is a 92. They wanted 600 bucks to fix it but would give me a loaner car to drive. It was the car that I traded for the TDI....... Any questions?

So don't think VW has the market. All dealers pretty much don't FIX anything........they REPLACE parts and that's why the service costs an arm and a leg. Just the way it is.

As was said already........thankfully it appears VW has gone to great length to improve vehicle quality....

For the new Jetta to be successful it had better be pretty much bullet proof. Time will tell.
 

Driver_found

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Location
Phila
TDI
Former MKV Jetta TDI 5M, Former 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2015 Mazda 6 Touring 6m
VW doesn't even give YOU the option to choose the 'good' (Old) stuff, even if you wanted to.

No lumbar support????? ***.

Limited ESP and no button to turn it off. When plowing through a snow drift, the only way to get moving is to turn it 'off', and spin 'both' wheels to get traction. I've had five seasons to learn this. And that was with snow tires.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just say that I'd like to order the Mcburger with cheese. The one everybody liked for the last few years.
> We have a new sandwich called the McWish. If you want meat, pickles, onions and special sauce, they will only be available in the Superduper GLI Mcburger. For only $10 more.

>We know that know that you really can't make up your mind as to what to eat anyway. >We've decided that you just want to stuff your face with something, and just like to chew.

I just want to add some pickles..

>Nope, not an option anymore. You don't need them and you wouldn't notice if they were gone anyway. Our marketing analysis says so.

> So we took all of that hard to chew stuff out of the sandwich, and look! You saved $9 bucks. Aren't you happy?? -- See where I am going here?
 

brucetmoose

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
Used to own a 2002 Jetta TDI - Black/Black
What I noticed that changed when I looked at the 2010 JSW TDI

I went to the local dealership here and checked out the 2010 6-speed manual Jetta Sportwagon. One thing I did notice was the higher price. The other thing I noticed was that many features that were extra when I bought my 2002 regular Jetta were now standard.

In particular, they all had heated seats and heated window washer nozzles as standard equipment. On my 2002, the "Cold Weather Climate" package was extra. Ditto for some other features, they were standard as compared to my 2002. Ok, that explains the higher price.

I still have one major ***** about the options and that is what covers the seats. You basically have the choice of leather or this fake leather - YUCK! The cloth seats on the 2002 were oh so comfortable and if I had bought the 2010 I would have had to take it to the local "trim" shop to have cloth seat covers put over it. I almost want to find my 2002 out of the junkyard and rebuild it.

I didn't get a chance to try out the seat controls - I think they were electric - I liked the manual wheel ones that I had on the 2002. To me, the best thing about a VW was that the seatbacks had infinite positions and they had this nice big control wheel for it on the side that was closest to the door ( driver - left side, passenger - right side ). I loved the way the seats rolled all the way back and you could ...

If I chose to get one, I'm going to have to go back to the dealership and really play with the controls all day - they are different than before and there are more of them.

The things that I loved - the panoramic sunroof on the Jetta JSW's is a huge upgrade from both the new jetta and my 2002. I loved the secondary cloth that I could roll back as well. The sunroof controls were the only ones I thought that were pretty much the same from my 2002.

I loved the 6 speed over the 5 speed that I had - what I couldn't believe was that the EPA "mileage" (if you think it's close to reality - think again ) for the manual was 1 mpg lower than the DSG. I had a hard time finding a manual to drive - they had a ton of DSG's but almost no manual - there was only one JSW I would have bought.

So I'm going to continue my open memo to the marketing idiots at VW - make it so that the options are the same on the TDI's as they are for the gassers - you are being so stupid for limiting us. If you REALLY wanted to sell them, you'd make it so that the only "option" is an engine change! I mean how hard can that be? Your build configurator having a bad day and can't handle it? If my company can handle making what they make with the options that we support, you guys can make cars too that have options.

Memo to the local dealer - find some banks that can finance better. If a statewide "huge" dealership can finance a dead person ( true story ), then VW should be able to finance 2 dead people and their dead pets too. I own what I own because of that. And no, I'm not dead despite a mechanic and doctor who claim I should be after the accident. Maybe I'm undead and just don't know it yet. :p If you live anywhere in upstate NY between Rochester and Utica, you know which set of dealerships I'm talking about. No, they don't have the VW franchise - YET.
 

GTIDan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
So. California
TDI
2010 Candy White Jetta, DSG
I went to the local dealership here and checked out the 2010 6-speed manual Jetta Sportwagon. One thing I did notice was the higher price. The other thing I noticed was that many features that were extra when I bought my 2002 regular Jetta were now standard.

In particular, they all had heated seats and heated window washer nozzles as standard equipment. On my 2002, the "Cold Weather Climate" package was extra. Ditto for some other features, they were standard as compared to my 2002. Ok, that explains the higher price.

I still have one major ***** about the options and that is what covers the seats. You basically have the choice of leather or this fake leather - YUCK! The cloth seats on the 2002 were oh so comfortable and if I had bought the 2010 I would have had to take it to the local "trim" shop to have cloth seat covers put over it. I almost want to find my 2002 out of the junkyard and rebuild it.

I didn't get a chance to try out the seat controls - I think they were electric - I liked the manual wheel ones that I had on the 2002. To me, the best thing about a VW was that the seatbacks had infinite positions and they had this nice big control wheel for it on the side that was closest to the door ( driver - left side, passenger - right side ). I loved the way the seats rolled all the way back and you could ...

If I chose to get one, I'm going to have to go back to the dealership and really play with the controls all day - they are different than before and there are more of them.

The things that I loved - the panoramic sunroof on the Jetta JSW's is a huge upgrade from both the new jetta and my 2002. I loved the secondary cloth that I could roll back as well. The sunroof controls were the only ones I thought that were pretty much the same from my 2002.

I loved the 6 speed over the 5 speed that I had - what I couldn't believe was that the EPA "mileage" (if you think it's close to reality - think again ) for the manual was 1 mpg lower than the DSG. I had a hard time finding a manual to drive - they had a ton of DSG's but almost no manual - there was only one JSW I would have bought.

So I'm going to continue my open memo to the marketing idiots at VW - make it so that the options are the same on the TDI's as they are for the gassers - you are being so stupid for limiting us. If you REALLY wanted to sell them, you'd make it so that the only "option" is an engine change! I mean how hard can that be? Your build configurator having a bad day and can't handle it? If my company can handle making what they make with the options that we support, you guys can make cars too that have options.

Memo to the local dealer - find some banks that can finance better. If a statewide "huge" dealership can finance a dead person ( true story ), then VW should be able to finance 2 dead people and their dead pets too. I own what I own because of that. And no, I'm not dead despite a mechanic and doctor who claim I should be after the accident. Maybe I'm undead and just don't know it yet. :p If you live anywhere in upstate NY between Rochester and Utica, you know which set of dealerships I'm talking about. No, they don't have the VW franchise - YET.
whine, whine whine...........

VW sells EVERY TDI they can deliver to the states and they do it without advertising them either. IF they really wanted to sell them................are you ****ting me?

Those YUCKY fake leather seats will look the same five years from now......unless your the exception and treat your leather seats they won't look nearly as good.

Whine, whine, whine. Never read so many whiners on a forum as here.....and I thought the Lexus forum was bad.......not even close.
 

Driver_found

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Location
Phila
TDI
Former MKV Jetta TDI 5M, Former 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2015 Mazda 6 Touring 6m
Actually there are more whiners on Vortex.

Are they all wrong too?
Is Car and Driver wrong as well?

I was actually holding out to purchase the new TDI, but now I am not.
Not until they restore the at least the basic features from the A5, that gave the brand the personality and value, that set it apart from the other guys.

This is what Mexico gets BTW. Why did they decide that?
Pictures:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4973256-VWvortex-First-Drive-2011-Jetta-6

Look at the new Kia Forte. Seems like they tried to copy the MKV Jetta.
Look at the new Suzuki Kizashi. Looks like the Jetta twin that was separated at birth. Even the interior is practically an exact clone.
Look at the new Hyndai Sonata. Visual clone of the groundbreaking VW CC.
Look at the Chevy Malibu. They took many of the MKV Jetta features (including the good trunk hinges) and logo on the headlight bulbs.
Look at the new Buick Regal. It is being advertised to be built with German Engineering.

So many people have started to copy VW because they set the quality standard. They are starting to get close to that magic VW fomula. Now VW throws it all away, and the other players are now a leg up.
Our cars were known for great handling. "Nobody does interiors like VW" was quoted many times by the press. So you only get to keep all of the virtues if you now buy the top model? And that isn't offered as a TDI?

I really want to hang with them and am willing to wait a bit, but feel they should know that they appear to have lost sight of the ball with this initial offering of the new model.

I'm just saying.
 
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NYTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2001
Location
Mid - Hudson
TDI
1999.5 Golf TDI AUTOMATIC trans. GLS w/PLX package silver/black cloth
I went to the local dealership here and checked out the 2010 6-speed manual Jetta Sportwagon. One thing I did notice was the higher price. The other thing I noticed was that many features that were extra when I bought my 2002 regular Jetta were now standard.

In particular, they all had heated seats and heated window washer nozzles as standard equipment. On my 2002, the "Cold Weather Climate" package was extra. Ditto for some other features, they were standard as compared to my 2002. Ok, that explains the higher price.

I still have one major ***** about the options and that is what covers the seats. You basically have the choice of leather or this fake leather - YUCK! The cloth seats on the 2002 were oh so comfortable and if I had bought the 2010 I would have had to take it to the local "trim" shop to have cloth seat covers put over it. I almost want to find my 2002 out of the junkyard and rebuild it.

I didn't get a chance to try out the seat controls - I think they were electric - I liked the manual wheel ones that I had on the 2002. To me, the best thing about a VW was that the seatbacks had infinite positions and they had this nice big control wheel for it on the side that was closest to the door ( driver - left side, passenger - right side ). I loved the way the seats rolled all the way back and you could ...

If I chose to get one, I'm going to have to go back to the dealership and really play with the controls all day - they are different than before and there are more of them.

The things that I loved - the panoramic sunroof on the Jetta JSW's is a huge upgrade from both the new jetta and my 2002. I loved the secondary cloth that I could roll back as well. The sunroof controls were the only ones I thought that were pretty much the same from my 2002.

I loved the 6 speed over the 5 speed that I had - what I couldn't believe was that the EPA "mileage" (if you think it's close to reality - think again ) for the manual was 1 mpg lower than the DSG. I had a hard time finding a manual to drive - they had a ton of DSG's but almost no manual - there was only one JSW I would have bought.

So I'm going to continue my open memo to the marketing idiots at VW - make it so that the options are the same on the TDI's as they are for the gassers - you are being so stupid for limiting us. If you REALLY wanted to sell them, you'd make it so that the only "option" is an engine change! I mean how hard can that be? Your build configurator having a bad day and can't handle it? If my company can handle making what they make with the options that we support, you guys can make cars too that have options.

Memo to the local dealer - find some banks that can finance better. If a statewide "huge" dealership can finance a dead person ( true story ), then VW should be able to finance 2 dead people and their dead pets too. I own what I own because of that. And no, I'm not dead despite a mechanic and doctor who claim I should be after the accident. Maybe I'm undead and just don't know it yet. :p If you live anywhere in upstate NY between Rochester and Utica, you know which set of dealerships I'm talking about. No, they don't have the VW franchise - YET.
Call me a whiner if you wish GTIDan but I agree with almost all BTM has to say. I would spend the money on upgrading / maintaining a MkIV Golf before I would buy a current JSW or a new Jetta. No sale VW. Many like me. VW optioning in N. America is a major FAIL! Time will tell, I predict failure.
 

GTIDan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
So. California
TDI
2010 Candy White Jetta, DSG
Call me a whiner if you wish GTIDan but I agree with almost all BTM has to say. I would spend the money on upgrading / maintaining a MkIV Golf before I would buy a current JSW or a new Jetta. No sale VW. Many like me. VW optioning in N. America is a major FAIL! Time will tell, I predict failure.
Am I assuming your speaking of the 2011 Jetta? Hard to believe you wouldn't like the current JSW.............looks awfully good to me and has all the goodies you all say you want.

I concur with you on the new Jetta TDI (at least from what I know now) and I'm glad I have the 2010 version. I'm not giving up anything to the new one. Got the multi-link rear suspension, electromagnetic steering and so on.

Your right.........time will tell for sure. The one thing I really like about my Jetta is that the Corolla aside........it looks like nothing else on the road and you can tell it's a VW from a block away by the grill. The new one is pretty generic looking and does look like a Kia Optima and a few others.

I guess if we want the goodies we've got to go with the Golf........not that that's a bad choice.

Dan :)
 

UberVW_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2010 Golf Variant TDI
......They have seemingly offended to core group of perennial buyers to go after the mass market. If history stands true, I think that there will be a swift adjustment in the lineup to satisfy to buying public who still wants the old pedigree and are willing to pay for it.....

Preach it! I sure hope your right! VW is scaring me with the boring instrument panel, cheap plastic interior surfaces, etc.
 

UberVW_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2010 Golf Variant TDI
It seems that over the last several years, poor reliability has become a thing of the past which will help.

Not according to this:
VW ranked third from last.


Biggest piece of poop I've ever owned was a 1999 Land Rover Discovery II. Sold it at 50K miles due to so many issues...and I consider auto maintenance one of my hobbies.
Anyway, I notice Land Rover is still bringing up the rear AGAIN in this list.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straigh...r-releases-2010-initial-quality-rankings.html


BUT, I haven't had any real issues with my 2010 VW (knock on wood)! Biggest reasons I bought my VW....TDI power train, 6 speed manual transmission, european driving dynamics, and quality interior.

I can see myself buying another TDI in the future if VW doesn't abandon the german driving dynamics and "nobody does interiors like VW". Don't forget about what your current customers love about you VW!
 

brucetmoose

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
Used to own a 2002 Jetta TDI - Black/Black
Thank You NYTDI - and I agree with your point about the MKIV as well

Call me a whiner if you wish GTIDan but I agree with almost all BTM has to say. I would spend the money on upgrading / maintaining a MkIV Golf before I would buy a current JSW or a new Jetta. No sale VW. Many like me. VW optioning in N. America is a major FAIL! Time will tell, I predict failure.
The only reason I had to give up the MKIV Jetta was that it was utterly destroyed in a horrific accident in which a doctor and mechanic swore I should be dead. Just to give you an idea of the force involved, the center console post SHEARED clean and what metal was still attached to the console cut my daughter's knee as it flew forward.

The only reason I ever had any issues with the car were the following reasons:

1 - A 2004 front-end swipe accident caused major electrical issues for 2 years before all the wiring was replaced - the power fuse assembly on top of the battery kept on melting into a puddle of plastic. I would have bought a new one, but CARB prevented me from doing so ( see my CARB rant in my sig ).

2 - two major errors at the dealer - one was their fault, the other was not. Both times they fixed the car at their expense with little to no argument, but I did have an extended warranty which made it easy. The two issues were re-use of torque bolts and the BG engine cleaning process. After a certain mechanic was put in charge of all TDI work at the dealership, had NO issues. And yes he knows what he's doing. The bolt issue was the last straw for the dealership who then made the change and put that particular mechanic in charge of all TDI work. As for the BG engine cleaning process, BG told all the dealers to stop using it, but since the dealership got it from a distributor, the distributor failed to notify them. That little number caused the distributor an engine rebuild.

3 - plain old wear and tear - driving 187,000 miles in 7 years does wear out a few things. The clutch and front wheel bearings being the two biggest things plus timing belt changes.

So yes, I'd take that 2002 Jetta back any day. I paid 26k for it fully loaded including roof and bike racks. One other thing I really liked about it and it has to do with my cell phone and how I keep it attached to me - the drink folder also held my cell phone in a nice spot since I use a belt clip for my phones - the clip attached to the arm nicely and when I used my phone for VZ navigator it made for a nice easy hands free view. I wish I had that option or something like it back.

So as the other posts mentioned, why did VW go backwards in the options department? I've written letters to them asking why in the heck did they not allow the same options as the GLI trim line - all to little to no avail. Maybe some of us like our TDI's frugal, maybe some of us like them all decked out. What engine we pick shouldn't matter other than what goes into the fuel tank. The Camry's and Accords have oodles of nice options, so if you want to compete in that space, you have to do the same! I can't believe car companies are so standardized now - you pay 30k for a car and you can't really do much about it at the dealer? What the heck is up with that? No wonder the aftermarket dealers are making a killing - they have to be licking their chops.

So if you pound 30k into a car every year on average, yeah - you're going to rack up some bills on any car. My Hyundai has to have it's TB replaced every 60k, and so did my TDI - no difference there. I have almost 38k on the Hyundai and it's not even a year old (51 weeks).

And don't even get me started on the differences in fuel mileage between the two cars - yes I know the EPA had something to do with it, but why add .1 to the size of the engine - is there an EPA requirement that all engine sizes now have to be whole numbers? - do something to rev it up a bit and go smaller - how about a larger turbo for instance to make up for it! It's called ENGINEERING, do some of it!
 
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