The Big Test: 2013/2014 Hybrid and Diesel Sedans

Scoutx

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TDI2000Zim

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VW hat meinen '14 Passat TDiSE getötet.
Wow, that was a NICE comparison, hybrids against each other and against diesels, and THE DIESELS PERFORMED AWESOMELY!!!!!

With that said, I see too many hybrids on the road.
 

BeetleGo

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RebelTDI

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This is a very accurate comparison. As an owner of a 2010 Jetta TDI and a 2013 Jetta Hybrid SEL I agree with most of the points. The COO discussion was the least helpful part of this article, at least to me. I really don't buy cars as an investment and I'm not too stressed about the depreciation issues. One potential factor that could affect depreciation of our TDIs could be the hpfp (remains to be seen, but some claim it is an issue). In terms of insurance, my 2013 hybrid is less to insure than my 2010 Golf TDI was. I have tried to avoid financing as much as possible. I bought the TDI outright and the hybrid should be paid after a couple months. In terms of mpg, they are correct that the hybrids require more technique to get maximum mpg. Call it hypermiling if you must. You absolutely have to maximize the amount of electric driving you do. That means accelerate with the gas engine up to speed, then maintain your momentum with the electric motor. With a 27 hp electric motor and 1.1 KWh battery technique is required. It is actually amazing how capable that electric motor is at keeping the car going and on downward grades it can keep the car going at 65 mph. Commuting from south of Boston into the city and I can get 50+ mpg fairly routinely. I cannot do that with the TDI. Traffic has been heavier lately and that kills mpg in the TDI. With the TDI I can get low-mid 40 mpg, but heavier traffic can knock mpg down into the upper 30s. The hybrid is in its element in these conditions. The hybrid also does equally well driving in heavy traffic on I95/128. However, in highway cruising I can't see the hybrid matching the TDI (maybe the Prius can). The TDI usually nets upper 40s on the highway, but I doubt the hybrid will do that. The 1.4L TSI is a great engine, but I don't think it will do as well as the TDI. The EPA rating for the hybrid of 42 city/48 highway should be the other way around, I think. The driving experience is great in both cars. The hybrid is better equipped than my TDI. I like the quality of the interior of the 2010 TDI better than the 2013 hybrid, no question. I prefer the gas struts in the hood and trunk of the 2010 over the set up in the 2013. To sum up, both cars definitely have their own niche, but what they have in common is that they are both great cars to drive.
 
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BlankThis

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What is the expected lifetime now on the battery packs that hybrids use? What's the cost of maintenance/ownership like?

I have a hard time recommending the new TDIs with HPFP issues, high cost of purchase (no longer can the TDI be a base option), fuel costing that same as premium gas, and the meticulous maintenance they require.
 

RabbitGTI

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^^^ ya, I'm old school and fix everything on my cars. I also drive them 250 to 300,000 miles before retirement and that is due to climate/rust, not mechanical failure. I have a hard time believing any of the modern stuff will make it that far because of component costs and therefore early replacement of the car will negate any fuel savings. I hope I'm wrong because I like the Jetta hybrid and regenerative braking in general.
 

03_01_TDI

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If the golf was offered in the hybrid option I would have seriously considered it over the tdi. I was very impressed with the jetta hybrid. But I need/want a hatch. And no way would I drive a Prius.
 

RebelTDI

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For those who like to work on their own cars, hybrids are probably not ideal. There is a lot of voltage stored in those batteries that could fry you if made a mistake. On a separate note hybrids are sort of a game of physics, transferring as much kinetic energy as you can into electric potential, then using the electric as much as you can to maintain your momentum. Kind of satisfying going down a long, steep hill and filling up that battery with free energy!
 
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RabbitGTI

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For those who like to work on their own cars, hybrids are probably not ideal. There is a lot of voltage stored in those batteries that could fry you if made a mistake. On a separate note hybrids are sort of a game of physics, transferring as much kinetic energy as you can into electric potential, then using the electric as much as you can to maintain your momentum. Kind of satisfying going down a long, steep hill and filling up that battery with free energy!
Good point. A huge capacitor? An old CRT capacitor could do damage if you didn't discharge it.
 

RabbitGTI

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If the golf was offered in the hybrid option I would have seriously considered it over the tdi. I was very impressed with the jetta hybrid. But I need/want a hatch. And no way would I drive a Prius.
I checked VW.com and one downside to the hybrid Jetta is the lack of trunk space. Down from 15 ft cubed to about 11. Ouch.
 

mrspindlelegs

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...and the meticulous maintenance they require.
What meticulous maintenance?

The oil change intervals are quite long.
The timing belt does need changing but that is around 100,000 mile intervals and is very easy to do since the BEW engine and later models came out.
There are no spark plugs or spark plug wires to maintain.
The only thing my TDI requires more often than a gasser in maintenance is the draining of the fuel filter to check for water as well as the shorter interval for replacement (20,000 miles for TDI whereas 50,000 miles is typical for gassers).
Everything else is normal wear & tear maintenance like any car (brakes, shocks, clutch).
 

japedo

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What meticulous maintenance?

The oil change intervals are quite long.
The timing belt does need changing but that is around 100,000 mile intervals and is very easy to do since the BEW engine and later models came out.
There are no spark plugs or spark plug wires to maintain.
The only thing my TDI requires more often than a gasser in maintenance is the draining of the fuel filter to check for water as well as the shorter interval for replacement (20,000 miles for TDI whereas 50,000 miles is typical for gassers).
Everything else is normal wear & tear maintenance like any car (brakes, shocks, clutch).
I also don't know what he speaks of in regards to diesels requiring meticulous maintenance.
And I feel the increased oil change intervals easily make up for the more frequent fuel filter replacements.
I am also pretty sure a 5 year old tdi will have a greater resale then a 5 year old hybrid. "Old batteries, lost efficiency" but this is just a theory and I may be wrong.
 

LRTDI

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Rode in a hybrid camry....weird noises from the braking system..... not sure I could get used to that.
 

kjclow

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This was one of the more positive comparisons. No real bashing of the Jetta and a good job of keeping the overall performance of the car as the primery focus. I agree with an earlier post saying that a 10 yr COO would probably be more meaningful today. People are keeping their cars longer, not just us dieselheads!

I've never cared for the braking in any of the hybrids I've either test drove or had as rental cars. I think it has to do with the regenitive braking that feels like the brakes are dragging.
 
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kjclow

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I also don't know what he speaks of in regards to diesels requiring meticulous maintenance.
And I feel the increased oil change intervals easily make up for the more frequent fuel filter replacements.
I am also pretty sure a 5 year old tdi will have a greater resale then a 5 year old hybrid. "Old batteries, lost efficiency" but this is just a theory and I may be wrong.
Not sure about the Jetta Hybrid, but as far as I know, everything else in this comparison is now on a 10K mile oil change interval.
 

MontrealTDI

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I guess checking the oil dipstick once in a while is called meticulous maintenance today...

Great article, thanks!
 

RabbitGTI

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This was one of the more positive comparisons. No real bashing of the Jetta and a good job of keeping the overall performance of the car as the primery focus. I agree with an earlier post saying that a 10 yr COO would probably be more meaningful today. People are keeping their cars longer, not just us dieselheads!

I've never cared for the braking in any of the hybrids I've either test drove or had as rental cars. I think it has to do with the regenitive braking that feels like the brakes are dragging.
I've never driven a hybrid with regen braking. It is a technology that makes sense, much more sense than plug-in. All I care about in brakes is if I can just tickle em and get some brake feel and if I stand on em the pads REALLY bite. I'll have to try one.
 

El Dobro

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I've never driven a hybrid with regen braking. It is a technology that makes sense, much more sense than plug-in. All I care about in brakes is if I can just tickle em and get some brake feel and if I stand on em the pads REALLY bite. I'll have to try one.
I have a plug-in. last night, I had to do some running around in town and the battery indicator said I had 10.7 miles of EV to do it. When I got done, my total ride was 10.6 miles and I had 2.2 miles of EV left thanks to the regen brakes. My speeds varied from 25 to 45mph.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Interesting comments about the Cruze's poor driving dynamics, exterior noise, and not getting close to its EPA highway ratings. Not unexpected.
 

kjclow

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I've never been all that impressed with the Cruze gasser rentals that I've had. Ok for an entry level sedan but not something that I ever felt compelled to even price out. For similar money, I think you made the right move on getting your daughter the jetta SE gasser.
 

RabbitGTI

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I've never been all that impressed with the Cruze gasser rentals that I've had. Ok for an entry level sedan but not something that I ever felt compelled to even price out. For similar money, I think you made the right move on getting your daughter the jetta SE gasser.
Yup, 2.0 gasser combines modern safety and old-school bulletproof mechanical bits. It will last forever and be inexpensive to maintain. Gets good mileage too if you drive it nicely :D
 

RebelTDI

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I'll bet the 1.8L TSI in the Jetta SE will be nice. The 1.4LTSI in the hybrid has a lot of punch, so the 1.8 should be better. Plus the 1.8L TSI doesn't require premium.
 

RebelTDI

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I've never driven a hybrid with regen braking. It is a technology that makes sense, much more sense than plug-in. All I care about in brakes is if I can just tickle em and get some brake feel and if I stand on em the pads REALLY bite. I'll have to try one.
The extra price premium for the plug in is considerable. Some of the plug ins have a 15 mile range, so if your commute is short it makes some sense. So far, I have not run the battery out in my non-plug-in hybrid. You have to pay attention to energy management, though. That's where driving a TDI has an advantage. Just drive. For my commutes in the hybrid, I don't worry at all about those long traffic lines idling at traffic lights. I'm not losing any mpgs.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I'll bet the 1.8L TSI in the Jetta SE will be nice. The 1.4LTSI in the hybrid has a lot of punch, so the 1.8 should be better. Plus the 1.8L TSI doesn't require premium.
I'd like to drive one of these. The Jetta with Connectivity has IRS, soft touch dash, 36 MPG highway, and stickers at around 20K. 5 speed manual available, too.
 

Heinrich D W

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I just bought a new door lock for my 2000 Jetta TDI and found it was made in China.Is anyone familiar with these? If so could you let me know how well it performs?
 

03_01_TDI

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I checked VW.com and one downside to the hybrid Jetta is the lack of trunk space. Down from 15 ft cubed to about 11. Ouch.

I forgot that.. The battery not only takes up space but its location would hinder many objects from fitting at all. I runs several inches wide across the whole back of the trunk. With the seats down it would still effect space.

That said I car drove great. I would have liked to see an engine tach.
 

kjclow

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I thought the battery pack was up against the rear seats so that the hybrid did not have the fold down or pass through seats. I might be confusing it with other manufacturers though. Such as the Camry hybrid.
 
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