The age of engine downsizing is over, says Volkswagen

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
If you go into an area with no cell service, then you lose the GPS tracking on CarPlay and Android auto.

I hope Google doesn't kill the Waze user interaction, since Google prefers to use more voice activation than screen interaction.

Stand-alone units are still useful if you're a business traveler. And you can get stand-alone units with free traffic and map updates.
Not necessarily. Maps caches large areas, and GPS position is based on the GPS receiver in the phone, not on whether or not there is cell service.
 

20IndigoBlue02

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
Not necessarily. Maps caches large areas, and GPS position is based on the GPS receiver in the phone, not on whether or not there is cell service.
ive had that happen with carplay, driving from an area with decent 4G-LTE signal to no signal, and then the map no longer displays, it just shows a grid system.
 
Last edited:

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Yeah . . . GPS coordinates with no map info may be present, but is pretty much without value. Between business travel, and travel to a few places regularly with minimal coverage (cell phones don't market wellto deer and bears, so very poor coverage outside the occasional town . . . a cohple of spots where I callyou within a couple hundred feet where signal will die . . .) coupled with the piss poor tiny screens/interface on most phones . . . . the list of reasons for dedicated devices keeps climbing for me . . .
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
Just checked, and with Google Maps you can download an area for offline use. I didn't read to see how large of an area can be covered.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Smarter routing, free updated maps, and using the device that you already have.

Also, modern phones have bigger screens than dedicated navigation devices.

Also, Android Auto means you can display Google Maps on some modern car head units.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Frankly, from what I have seen, the Garmin route engine trounces the phone junk . . . and show me a phone with a bigger screen than the size on an RNS510 (or similar), and I'll show you a phone that won't sell . . . that argument is (sorry) crap . . . And when I buy a car with Nav, I already 'have that device as well' and don't have to bleed out into a phone bill to use it . . . so two down . . .

Oh, and on routing, I travel for work. Quite frequently, the folks I travel with try the phone crap, and we frequently don't get places on the first try. My dedicated devices never fail . . . . sometime, you *DO* get what you pay for (cheap isn't everything!)!!!
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Yeah, but a lot of Garmin devices aren't the 6.5" of the RNS 510 (which is also incredibly sluggish), they're 4 or 5". Many modern smartphones are 5.5".

And, most people already have the smartphone.

And, IME, dedicated devices do the weirdest routing sometimes, because they're often not traffic aware, and/or they're slow and can't try as many possibilities. And, voice control of dedicated devices and automotive head units tends to be atrocious (I've spent literally half an hour trying to get my Prius's Next Generation Entune to recognize a destination, and gave up, and just used the touchscreen at a light), whereas the smartphones do a far better job of that.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Also, Android Auto means you can display Google Maps on some modern car head units.
As well as Apple CarPlay, both of which are on board my lowly base 2016 Golf Trendline as standard equipment. However VW made it into an extra-cost option on the '17s (which we're getting on my wife's new wagon which she picks up next week when VW buys back her TDI). But in '18 it's back as standard, at least on the wagons.

It was a $700 option on her new wagon and includes a leather MF steering wheel.

My iPhone 6 has a larger display than the dedicated Garmin GPSMap 296 that I had in my plane (and which also had an automotive mode), not that I need it with CarPlay. Mind you that Garmin is 10 years old now. I couldn't give it away when I sold my plane two weeks ago, the new owner uses ForeFlight on his iPad.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Yeah, but a lot of Garmin devices aren't the 6.5" of the RNS 510 (which is also incredibly sluggish), they're 4 or 5". Many modern smartphones are 5.5".

And, most people already have the smartphone.

And, IME, dedicated devices do the weirdest routing sometimes, because they're often not traffic aware, and/or they're slow and can't try as many possibilities. And, voice control of dedicated devices and automotive head units tends to be atrocious (I've spent literally half an hour trying to get my Prius's Next Generation Entune to recognize a destination, and gave up, and just used the touchscreen at a light), whereas the smartphones do a far better job of that.
I never specified Garmin . . . I said 'dedicated' . . . We own two RNS510, and an older Garmin in our three vehicles. None have ever failed me,and while the Garmin estimates times better than the RNS, tne RNS kills it in terms of integration. We also have pretty high end phones, and I tried the nav once, and never again . . . . totally blows by comparison . . .and the RNS is slow for entry, but as fast as it needs to be to run routes. Considering that entry is typically 30 seconds, and running the route could be hours or days, that really fades into irrelevance . . . Would I like faster? Sure, but not if it would cost me . .

Voice control? Yet another solution in search of a problem, at least to me . . .
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
@PlaneCrazy Somehow, I doubt the iFruit solution is FAA/IFR certified . . . . depending on what you had, the Garmin might have been . . . .
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Voice control? Yet another solution in search of a problem, at least to me . . .
What if you're driving and need to change destinations?

With voice control, you can keep your eyes on the road if it actually works properly.

With integrated navigation, the voice control will not work properly, and you can't even do it dangerously (through the touch screen), or even have your passenger do it, because the controls lock out in motion.

With a phone, even if the voice control doesn't work properly (and it often works well enough), you can do it dangerously, or have your passenger do it, if you so choose.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Mine don't lock . . . 2013 or 2015, we have done that. For me, if I need to change, no point still driving since I don't know where I am going anyhoo, so pulling over is not an issue. Frankly, in recent memory, I can't recall ever needing to do so . . . Our typical 'in motion' is one of us entering something right after pulling out while the other is driving, which, btw, is possible once you dismiss the warning popup . . .
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
My goodness, this thread has veered off topic! :p

But I will add that I do actually prefer the integrated display/device vs. a phone hanging on some sort of holder. But I too travel for work, so I have a portable Garmin (replaced an older Tom Tom). I still prefer my factory nav that my two VWs had (both RNS-510) and my current Audi (although the Audi is the older version before integration with Google Maps). I'm pretty sure I'll be getting a new Tiguan SEL Premium soon, and it will be my first experience with Car Play. Since my work phone is an iPhone, I have one I can try. My personal phone is still Windows 10, so I don't think it supports phone mirroring to the display. However, my main desire is for Pandora or Amazon Music, not nav.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
@PlaneCrazy Somehow, I doubt the iFruit solution is FAA/IFR certified . . . . depending on what you had, the Garmin might have been . . . .
Nope, the Garmin was VFR only, as is ForeFlight. I was a VFR-only pilot, as is the purchaser. However the plane had basic IFR equipment, alternate static, and ability to shoot VOR-LOC and NDB approaches, quite apart from the GPS.
 

20IndigoBlue02

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
My goodness, this thread has veered off topic! :p

But I will add that I do actually prefer the integrated display/device vs. a phone hanging on some sort of holder. But I too travel for work, so I have a portable Garmin (replaced an older Tom Tom). I still prefer my factory nav that my two VWs had (both RNS-510) and my current Audi (although the Audi is the older version before integration with Google Maps). I'm pretty sure I'll be getting a new Tiguan SEL Premium soon, and it will be my first experience with Car Play. Since my work phone is an iPhone, I have one I can try. My personal phone is still Windows 10, so I don't think it supports phone mirroring to the display. However, my main desire is for Pandora or Amazon Music, not nav.
I have that with Android Auto.

With Pandora on my old iPhone, when Sportcuts were offering coupons that required a screen shot, I was able to do it. Not so on my Galaxy S7, which I bought due to the rumor of Waze integration last year (which is in beta testing right now).

Too bad CarPlay/Android Auto doesn't show up in the instrument cluster, but maybe it will with the digital cockpit.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Nope, the Garmin was VFR only, as is ForeFlight. I was a VFR-only pilot, as is the purchaser. However the plane had basic IFR equipment, alternate static, and ability to shoot VOR-LOC and NDB approaches, quite apart from the GPS.
Yeah, I was just recalling when I got licensed when GPS wasn't really used yet, but LORAN-C was the thing . . . a certified unit in either was big $$$$ . . . .
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
None of the above with Apple CarPlay. Your car's infotainment centre becomes your iPhone's (or Android's) home screen. Apple Maps displays just like an in-dash GPS, the radio stops talking when nav instructions come through... it pretty much makes spending extra for an in-dash factory unit redundant and a waste of money.

Switching radio preset stations while using the maps is a 5-7 button process on the screen. There's no dedicated button to swap between carplay and radio.

I'm glad the apple carplay wasn't an add on feature.

Also the number of times the map has gone blank due to poor cell service is rather amusing. I don't need a NAV to drive the highway I need a NAV when i'm in the middle of no where.
 

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
Frankly, from what I have seen, the Garmin route engine trounces the phone junk . . .

Oh, and on routing, I travel for work. Quite frequently, the folks I travel with try the phone crap, and we frequently don't get places on the first try. My dedicated devices never fail . . . . sometime, you *DO* get what you pay for (cheap isn't everything!)!!!
I have a 6" TomTom which has been super reliable. Only cost me $80 shipped - came complete with all supplied accessories and is the version with free lifetime traffic / map updates. So while the price was cheap the performance isn't - and it has options for how I want it to calculate a route such as Fastest, Eco, Shortest, etc.

Yeah, but a lot of Garmin devices aren't the 6.5" of the RNS 510 (which is also incredibly sluggish), they're 4 or 5". Many modern smartphones are 5.5".

And, most people already have the smartphone.

And, IME, dedicated devices do the weirdest routing sometimes, because they're often not traffic aware, and/or they're slow and can't try as many possibilities.
I don't have a smartphone (insert gasp here - :eek:) and find the TomTom does very well at routing. Like many things there are times when one needs to know when to ignore it. I always look up my destinations / possible routes at home and make a note if there is a particular road / town I wish to incorporate or avoid as the case may be. If a traffic situation develops along my route my TomTom will alert me and ask if I want to select an alternative route.

Map updates - I get one every 3 months for free. Have to consider fact if my TomTom cost me $80 that is lower than the price of a one-time only map update disc for the VW in-dash navigation. I see no downside of using a dedicated GPS unit at all other than I have to put it out of sight (for security) when parked. It can also be placed in another vehicle to enable navigational assistance unlike a dash navigation head unit.

One other thing - for those who like to play around with their devices the TomTom display colors can be customized to one's liking instead of being limited to the default color schemes that are standard. I created a really useful high-contrast scheme for my TomTom that is easy to decipher at a glance. :D
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
One thing I miss from my old TomTom was Yoda providing guidance. I can get it for the Garmin, but it costs. TomTom had far more voices available for free. :)
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I just hit the "band" button, and voila, the radio screen shows up and I can select any of my presets, just as if I was on any other screen.
Okay now go back to your maps, I've only figured out:
Hit phone, select carplay, which brings back the home screen, then select maps
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Okay now go back to your maps, I've only figured out:
Hit phone, select carplay, which brings back the home screen, then select maps
You can also bring back CarPlay by hitting the "menu" button on the infotainment system, and scrolling along until you find the CarPlay icon on the car's display. Then select CarPlay and you'll be brought back to either your phone's home screen or whatever you were on previously (maps, music).
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Got it, button press, then scroll with touch screen, find what you want, then select, easy peasy!

I'm just glad car play wasn't something extra on the options list.
 

TheFawkingHux

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Location
Connecticut
TDI
Mk3 Golf CL
Slightly back on topic: My 97 Grand Cherokee with a 4-liter I6 got 23mpg consistently crossing the country earlier this summer. Around town though, it sucked... 12-14. My second Grand with a 367ci .040-bored 5.9L got 30 on the highway and 17-19 around town. The big motor maybe hit 2600rpm, and that was hard inclines from a dead stop.
 

fnj2

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 1999
Location
Wellfleet, Massachusetts, USA
[cars] are designed only to a 125K mileage window, at which point they are assumed to be retired from the road
Nonsense. I've had three cars, each for over 125,000 miles. None of them ever ran detectably poorer than brand new, and I never had to touch the fuel injection or exhaust on any of them. The one that was gasoline I did do the plugs and plug wires; that was it. The other two, turbo diesels, I never had to touch, outside of normal minor maintenance items.

My current Golf TDI is presently on its 18th year. In that time I have replaced one glow plug and one injector (only because an internal seal was leaking).
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Not so much what they can do, but what the designers and engineers expect of them. Otherwise, a "cheap" car would cost $100k, and after a few years, everyone that could/would buy a car would have one for life and all the car companies would be out of business.

I agree that pretty much any car *can* be made to last indefinitely, they are just machines, and machines are simply a collection of parts glued and screwed together. The only reason that any vehicle HAS to be removed from roadworthy status would be from nonrepairable (within reason) crash damage, nonrepairable (within reason) elemental damage (rust, rot, corrosion) or lack of available service parts.

If you drive properly, the crash damage becomes a non-issue.

If you live in an area free of winter road chemicals OR have the ability to keep the car clean and protected OR if the manufacturers made the materials better able to stand up to the elements the rust/rot/corrosion can be mitigated.

So the only thing left is service parts availability, which as we've seen over and over again in the field of automotive service, is the biggest issue standing in the way of keeping a car roadworthy long term. Which, again, is to be expected. The car companies want to sell new cars. That's what they do. They do NOT want 10+ year old product on the road. Volkswagen makes no money from my 17 year old Golf, and they despise me or anyone like me for keeping it or anything like it on the road.

So the trend continues. The manufacturers build new cars people want to buy, even if they do not actually need to let alone if they can actually afford to. Seriously, a clown I work with has a seven year loan on a Silverado that he drives around empty. Crew cab, of course, even though he has no "crew". And now I hear talk of people refinancing cars like home loans, which then extends the length of time people make payments. What the deuce is wrong with the math in these folks' world I have no idea. But they are certainly free to pursue frivolity as I see it. I bet by the time some of these guys get these bro-dozer trucks paid for they'll already have rust holes in them.
 
Last edited:

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Can't or won't differentiate between "wants" and "needs". People want stuff they don't need and will do what ever it takes to get it, if the monthly payment fits. There are those who can't even tell you how much the item costs, but will tell you they can afford the monthly payment. I taught my children that credit can be a form of slavery. I always ask them if they are willing to submit to slavery for years for the item they want.

I have a 1935 Ford that I can still get NOS parts for. But a lot of my 2003 Beetle parts are NLA.
 

jmodge

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 5speed daily commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/502's backroad cruiser
Not so much what they can do, but what the designers and engineers expect of them. Otherwise, a "cheap" car would cost $100k, and after a few years, everyone that could/would buy a car would have one for life and all the car companies would be out of business.

I agree that pretty much any car *can* be made to last indefinitely, they are just machines, and machines are simply a collection of parts glued and screwed together. The only reason that any vehicle HAS to be removed from roadworthy status would be from nonrepairable (within reason) crash damage, nonrepairable (within reason) elemental damage (rust, rot, corrosion) or lack of available service parts.

If you drive properly, the crash damage becomes a non-issue.

If you live in an area free of winter road chemicals OR have the ability to keep the car clean and protected OR if the manufacturers made the materials better able to stand up to the elements the rust/rot/corrosion can be mitigated.

So the only thing left is service parts availability, which as we've seen over and over again in the field of automotive service, is the biggest issue standing in the way of keeping a car roadworthy long term. Which, again, is to be expected. The car companies want to sell new cars. That's what they do. They do NOT want 10+ year old product on the road. Volkswagen makes no money from my 17 year old Golf, and they despise me or anyone like me for keeping it or anything like it on the road.

So the trend continues. The manufacturers build new cars people want to buy, even if they do not actually need to let alone if they can actually afford to. Seriously, a clown I work with has a seven year loan on a Silverado that he drives around empty. Crew cab, of course, even though he has no "crew". And now I hear talk of people refinancing cars like home loans, which then extends the length of time people make payments. What the deuce is wrong with the math in these folks' world I have no idea. But they are certainly free to pursue frivolity as I see it. I bet by the time some of these guys get these bro-dozer trucks paid for they'll already have rust holes in them.
had a conversation about this the other day, it seems people are now born with the notion "must borrow to survive"
 
Top