JFettig
Vendor
I was thinking about this downpipe again, it looked as if its never been pulled, nuts so rusted on that I had to cut them off, to then find that the cat is already empty. Is it possible that it never had guts?
Jon
Jon
The 1998 B5 Passat TDI (one of 2 stateside?)
- Thread starter JFettig
- Start date
greengeeker
Vendor
I guess you now have your answer as to why your neighbor can hear you a quarter mile away. 
JFettig
Vendor
lol that could also be the reason there is a deep resonance at partial throttle - I think that the empty cat might be what makes an odd drone at partial throttle. The parts Passat is almost completely gutted. I've been doing some research on sound deadening but I haven't come up with much that satisfies me. I was hoping to put something on the underside of the hood, insides of the fenders, wheel liners, etc.
This is about all I have come up with: http://www.raamaudio.com/products/RAAMmat-BXT-II.html
Or http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld
another: http://www.secondskinaudio.com/index.php
I also have a can of duplicolor undercoating that claims it absorbs sound that I will be spraying on my skid plate once I get all the PSA foam off.
Do any acoustic engineers have any advise? I have to drop something off near your neighborhood soon, want to take a quick drive and listen and give me some ideas?
Jon
This is about all I have come up with: http://www.raamaudio.com/products/RAAMmat-BXT-II.html
Or http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld
another: http://www.secondskinaudio.com/index.php
I also have a can of duplicolor undercoating that claims it absorbs sound that I will be spraying on my skid plate once I get all the PSA foam off.
Do any acoustic engineers have any advise? I have to drop something off near your neighborhood soon, want to take a quick drive and listen and give me some ideas?
Jon
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greengeeker
Vendor
Sure I have some advice. When were you thinking?
JFettig
Vendor
I need to hear back from the other guy up there, but I'd like to aim for Saturday or Sunday. PM me what works best for you.
mech644
Veteran Member
I had a Golf whose cat had lost its innards, result was a resonance similar to what you describe.
I'm not an engineer but we use this company's stuff exclusively in all new boat builds and refits, http://www.soundown.com/ES.htm
We use this on fuel tank surfaces and insides of hulls (kevlar, core, and carbon fibre composite is LOUD) http://www.soundown.com/tuff mass.htm
If/when I install a skid plate it's what I'm putting on it. If I can find a big enough discard I'll send it to you for the cost of the shipping.
JFettig
Vendor
Mech, thanks for the info, let me know if you do find a chunk. I haven't decided when I will tackle the interior swap or body panel swap. I might wait to do the body until after the snow melts for the season(March). I just know that as soon as I put new body panels and doors on, someone will run into me or I into something.
I will have to put some priority into making new exhaust to get rid of that drone.
I will have to put some priority into making new exhaust to get rid of that drone.
JFettig
Vendor
Not a good representation because it drones the most closer to 80mph, I just thought of doing this video when I was almost to work where I couldn't drive as fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaW_7MbvYtg
Its a deeper drone than can be captured with my phone.
no skid plate on the car - doesn't change much with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaW_7MbvYtg
Its a deeper drone than can be captured with my phone.
no skid plate on the car - doesn't change much with it.
greengeeker
Vendor
Hmm. Can't really hear it that well in your video. Is the low frequency pretty even throughout the cabin or can you clearly hear it coming from the tailpipe or the air cleaner?
JFettig
Vendor
It definitely comes from the passenger side of the engine compartment. The video is a terrible representation.
greengeeker
Vendor
Does your air cleaner have the bypass flap? Does it still have its foam seal on it?
I'll say right now your only hope with the low frequency is to treat it at the source be that the muffler or air cleaner. You won't be absorbing any of that noise with the space you have available and even if you are able to block its transmission through the sheetmetal with the type of products mech644 linked you'll still get transmission through the glass.
I'll say right now your only hope with the low frequency is to treat it at the source be that the muffler or air cleaner. You won't be absorbing any of that noise with the space you have available and even if you are able to block its transmission through the sheetmetal with the type of products mech644 linked you'll still get transmission through the glass.
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JFettig
Vendor
I am pretty sure it doesn't have the bypass flap, I have had my TIP fall off and the sound is only a louder woosh. I have a V6 airbox with the bypass flap, what are you thinking?
ETA - I am running a PD130 TIP and V6 snorkel. Just added the V6 snorkel last week.
ETA - I am running a PD130 TIP and V6 snorkel. Just added the V6 snorkel last week.
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greengeeker
Vendor
Any leak in your air intake system (clean or dirty side) will be a breakout point for low frequency noise.
JFettig
Vendor
Pre-turbo should be good to go. Post turbo is not showing any signs of leakage but I haven't done any leak down tests on it.
Exhaust side(post turbo) has been messed with without changing gaskets numerous times but no change in sound has been observed.
Do you have any suggestions on how I could test for exhaust leaks?
The primary sounds I am aiming to reduce with dampening is not this drone(at this point) but more the diesel knock and somewhat the trans chatter(without installing a DMF).
Maybe I should drop the compression to 16.5:1 to sound as nice as NoJoke's ALH B4.
Exhaust side(post turbo) has been messed with without changing gaskets numerous times but no change in sound has been observed.
Do you have any suggestions on how I could test for exhaust leaks?
The primary sounds I am aiming to reduce with dampening is not this drone(at this point) but more the diesel knock and somewhat the trans chatter(without installing a DMF).
Maybe I should drop the compression to 16.5:1 to sound as nice as NoJoke's ALH B4.
greengeeker
Vendor
andy2's sounds friggin' sweet too.
Sorry, when I said intake I meant everything pre-turbo. You'd know if you had an issue post turbo hot or cold side. I'll take a listen but I doubt you have an issue here.
Are you mostly concerned about the noise in the driver's seat or the exterior of the car? Damping or barrier material will reduce transmission into the cabin and will do little for exterior noise. Absorption material by itself will reduce the amount of sound energy under the hood, indirectly reducing the amount of transmission into the cabin and directly reducing the amount radiated externally. Closing up the the engine compartment (side skirts, belly pan) will increase the performance of the absorption material.
Sorry, when I said intake I meant everything pre-turbo. You'd know if you had an issue post turbo hot or cold side. I'll take a listen but I doubt you have an issue here.
Are you mostly concerned about the noise in the driver's seat or the exterior of the car? Damping or barrier material will reduce transmission into the cabin and will do little for exterior noise. Absorption material by itself will reduce the amount of sound energy under the hood, indirectly reducing the amount of transmission into the cabin and directly reducing the amount radiated externally. Closing up the the engine compartment (side skirts, belly pan) will increase the performance of the absorption material.
JFettig
Vendor
Pre-turbo is definitely good, when the TIP came loose it was only an increase in woosh, which sounded pretty nice when pushing 25psi
I would like to take care of both, a little from the exterior and a lot in the interior.
The engine compartment is pretty well closed up with a skid plate alone, Another plate could be installed over the transmission to make it even better. The sides are pretty well closed up with the wheel liners and other shields around the CV shafts.
With the new hood and fenders, I have a good opportunity to treat the insides of those prior to putting them on the car. It will also be very easy to put something under the carpet as that is coming up for the new carpet. I originally wanted to do something to the firewall, but I really don't want to tear into it that far. I'll have to see what is behind the air box(interior HVAC stuff), if I see firewall behind that, maybe I'll do something on there. I am taking it out to empty the glass out of it and hook up foot well vents or swap for this other working one.
I would like to take care of both, a little from the exterior and a lot in the interior.
The engine compartment is pretty well closed up with a skid plate alone, Another plate could be installed over the transmission to make it even better. The sides are pretty well closed up with the wheel liners and other shields around the CV shafts.
With the new hood and fenders, I have a good opportunity to treat the insides of those prior to putting them on the car. It will also be very easy to put something under the carpet as that is coming up for the new carpet. I originally wanted to do something to the firewall, but I really don't want to tear into it that far. I'll have to see what is behind the air box(interior HVAC stuff), if I see firewall behind that, maybe I'll do something on there. I am taking it out to empty the glass out of it and hook up foot well vents or swap for this other working one.
greengeeker
Vendor
Nice. You have a perfect opportunity to make serious gains.
JFettig
Vendor
Its a shame, I wanted to sell this car next spring/summer after cleaning it up a little bit. After all of this huge swap/sound project, I might just have to keep it a little longer.
greengeeker
Vendor
Make it 4Motion and you've got a buyer.
JFettig
Vendor
Just buy a B5 S4 with a bad motor and drop in a motor, stock 6th gear is approximately the same as my 5th gear. It already has 2 intercoolers too! Just drop in a 1.8T crossover pipe/snub mount and you're golden.
This is a swap that will have me selling this car, except of course I'll have to import a PD130 AWX from europe to drop in.
This is a swap that will have me selling this car, except of course I'll have to import a PD130 AWX from europe to drop in.
JFettig
Vendor
Parts car is stripped.
more pics here:
http://stuff.jfettigmachines.com/tdi/parts/
some factory sound dampening:
Fenders have no dampening at all in them, they are pretty loud
more pics here:
http://stuff.jfettigmachines.com/tdi/parts/
some factory sound dampening:
Fenders have no dampening at all in them, they are pretty loud
JFettig
Vendor
Thanks Frank
Updates: I borrowed a friends sawzall - hacked off the muffler and put a temp exhaust pipe on, sounds nice, but a little loud. 2.5" mandrel bends have been ordered as well as some other goodies to make my own custom exhaust. I still haven't decided on a muffler yet.
I'm thinking next week to swap in the interior. One thing that bothers me about the dash is that it has the VIN from the other car on it and my VIN will stay with the dash I take out. Does anyone know of a good way to remove that? Otherwise I suppose I could get it re-printed to stick over the donor VIN. Maybe just remove it, any input?
TIG welder is wired up, I laid down a few beads.. sounds like I'll be doing exhaust first.
Updates: I borrowed a friends sawzall - hacked off the muffler and put a temp exhaust pipe on, sounds nice, but a little loud. 2.5" mandrel bends have been ordered as well as some other goodies to make my own custom exhaust. I still haven't decided on a muffler yet.
I'm thinking next week to swap in the interior. One thing that bothers me about the dash is that it has the VIN from the other car on it and my VIN will stay with the dash I take out. Does anyone know of a good way to remove that? Otherwise I suppose I could get it re-printed to stick over the donor VIN. Maybe just remove it, any input?
TIG welder is wired up, I laid down a few beads.. sounds like I'll be doing exhaust first.
JFettig
Vendor
Didn't really make any progress as I borrowed my truck to my sister without thinking that I'd need it.. I did start on my downpipe, then threw out my back so that will wait too.
I found something interesting in the MN statutes:
Subd. 1c.Collector's vehicle, collector plate.
(a) The owner of any self-propelled motor vehicle, including any truck, (1) that is (i) at least 20 model years old, or (ii) at least ten model years old and with a body or engine style of which not more than 500 were manufactured in or imported into the United States in any model year, (2) that was manufactured after 1935, and (3) that is owned and operated solely as a collector's vehicle, shall list the vehicle for taxation and registration as provided in paragraph (b).
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=168.10
when my tabs are up, I'm gonna try!
I found something interesting in the MN statutes:
Subd. 1c.Collector's vehicle, collector plate.
(a) The owner of any self-propelled motor vehicle, including any truck, (1) that is (i) at least 20 model years old, or (ii) at least ten model years old and with a body or engine style of which not more than 500 were manufactured in or imported into the United States in any model year, (2) that was manufactured after 1935, and (3) that is owned and operated solely as a collector's vehicle, shall list the vehicle for taxation and registration as provided in paragraph (b).
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=168.10
when my tabs are up, I'm gonna try!
TornadoRed
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2003
- Location
- West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
- TDI
- 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (retired); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (sold)
The key phrase: "the vehicle is owned and operated solely as a collector's item and not for general transportation purposes."
So I guess you can drive it to GTG and club meetings and car shows, but not drive it on a daily basis.
Get well soon, Jon, because I'll probably be ready for a TB replacement in about 5 or 6 weeks.
So I guess you can drive it to GTG and club meetings and car shows, but not drive it on a daily basis.
Get well soon, Jon, because I'll probably be ready for a TB replacement in about 5 or 6 weeks.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Yeah, some states that do that even require that you also have a non-collector car registered.
And, you'll also most likely need to provide documentation that less than 500 were imported... and VW may not be willing to provide that information, considering that their various catalogs and such don't even acknowledge its existence.
And, you'll also most likely need to provide documentation that less than 500 were imported... and VW may not be willing to provide that information, considering that their various catalogs and such don't even acknowledge its existence.
JFettig
Vendor
yeah, I've been thinking about that. I do have a beater truck but I doubt I'll mess with collector plates.
I did discuss it on a local board and what you(bhtooefr) said about VW acknowledging them is likely what I'd run into. If I was planning on keeping the car for years, I might fight it but I probably won't.
From everything I've read, other than the statement TornadoRed quoted, there aren't any real restrictions or consequences.
I did discuss it on a local board and what you(bhtooefr) said about VW acknowledging them is likely what I'd run into. If I was planning on keeping the car for years, I might fight it but I probably won't.
From everything I've read, other than the statement TornadoRed quoted, there aren't any real restrictions or consequences.
I've known a few people around here to get pulled over and ticketed while driving a collector plated vehicle. From what I hear, the ticket is pretty pricey. But, with that said, if I ever got pulled over in mine, I have an excuse ready...
When you get the collector plate, you do need to have a daily driven vehicle registered as well, otherwise you won't get the collector plate. And, you only need the rear plate, no front one!!!
When you get the collector plate, you do need to have a daily driven vehicle registered as well, otherwise you won't get the collector plate. And, you only need the rear plate, no front one!!!
JFettig
Vendor
I've got collector plates for my 944 turbo coming soon, I used this Passat as my daily driver for that.
They(DMV) told me I had to get 2 plates and run them for the 88 944, but I don't plan to. I guess prior to 1973 or something like that is when you could run only 1 plate in MN.
On what charge did they give them a ticket?
They(DMV) told me I had to get 2 plates and run them for the 88 944, but I don't plan to. I guess prior to 1973 or something like that is when you could run only 1 plate in MN.
On what charge did they give them a ticket?