The <$100 Lower IC pipe (pancake pipe) upgrade

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Hey folks! I just wanted to share how I upgraded my pancake pipe today with an OEM one from a 1.8T... Basically, I'm trying to do all of the supporting mods before I spring for a turbo (or if I don't buy the turbo, I'll end up as the fastest VNT-15 ;)). So, I'll be doing IC piping, intake piping, upgraded SMIC, race pipe, EGT gauge, downpipe... and then 17/22...

I started by looking at the piping set from ID parts, but at $155, I felt I could do better.

Then I found a couple articles on UK-MkIVs that got me inspired:
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/193681/1302951.aspx
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/194729/1263970.aspx

So, I picked up a used 1.8T pancake pipe from VWVortex for $35 shipped, and I bought about $60 of supporting hardware from http://www.frozenboost.com/ NAPA, and Advance Auto Parts:


UPDATE: This mod can be done much cheaper and easier by simply getting a 2" diameter hump hose connector; trim about 1/4" of length from each side, and attach one end to the pancake pipe, and the other end to the metal connector of the stock turbo outlet hose.

The parts I needed from FrozenBoost were:
2" to 1.375" silicone reducer
2" stainless steel joiner
1.375" stainless joiner
2" T-bolt clamps
(I also bought a 90 degree 2" section but did not need it, so I will use it on my custom air intake.)

Then, I got a 2" section of hose from NAPA that had several bends that looked useful, and two worm hose clamps from Advance Auto for the smaller piping. Plus, I was given an extra stock early style turbo outlet hose from a local friend/TDI guru.

First I jacked the car up, put it on jack stands, removed the skid-plate, front passenger wheel, fender liner, and passenger side engine skirt:


Then, I took out the old pancake pipe and compared the two:



Then, I chopped the 90 degree elbow off the stock turbo outlet hose, and attached it to the 1.375" stainless joiner with a worm hose clamp (not shown):

Then I put that section back on the turbo outlet on the car because it was easier to work with like that.

Then I cut into the rubber hose from NAPA to get the angle that I needed, and attached that to the 1.8T pancake pipe with a worm clamp, and then to the 2" stainless joiner and then to the 2" to 1.375" reducer with t-bolt clamps. I tried to match the angles of the stock piping as best as I could:


Then I fit the whole thing on the car, and tightened all the clamps, and took her for a test drive! :D

Once I was sure that the boost was holding well, I came back to button everything up by putting the engine skirt on, fender liner, and skid plate.

In situ:


I definitely noticed a good amount less turbo lag, and there should be a bit more top end power in theory, but I couldn't really tell much of a difference in overall power.

Next will be race pipe, custom intake piping, and then, ebay SMIC! :cool:
 
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CT TDI

Vendor
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
Did the IC to pancake pipe have to be changed or can that stay the same. I may end up doing this mod next weekend as I already have a 1.8t pancake pipe set aside for it.
 

davebugs

Vendor
Joined
Sep 15, 2003
Location
Pittsburgh suburb
TDI
2001 Golf TDI Automatic, MKIV rear axle bushing install tools
I'm curous as well.

I have a 1.8t stock pancake pipe (around here somewhere) and am wondering what it will take, then the next issue will be possibly clearing my DG metal sideskirts.
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Did the IC to pancake pipe have to be changed or can that stay the same. I may end up doing this mod next weekend as I already have a 1.8t pancake pipe set aside for it.
Nope, the other end of the pancake pipe fits right into the stock intercooler connection, they are both 60mm IIRC. I believe our stock IC is the same as the 1.8T IC.

also wanted to mention:
the elbow from the inlet end of the pancake pipe to the reducer should be approximately 30 degrees to 45 degrees. the bend at the end of the stock turbo outlet hose is 35 degrees, but i found out that the inlet end of the 1.8t pancake pipe is at a slightly different angle.... that's why i ended up going with the 2-ply rubber hose from NAPA as opposed to a 30 degree or 45 degree 4-ply coupler: because it was more flexible, and had the right sort of a bend and twist that i was looking for...

another method would have been to weld a reducer on the 1.8t pancake pipe, but the quotes i got were in the same ballpark as the cost of all the couplers, and now if i do upgade the turbo later, i can just change the reducer size to match the new turbo outlet.

also, you want to remember to transfer the rubber insert at the hanger from the old pancake pipe to the new one, if yours does not have one already.
 
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cog

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Location
MIDDLESBROUGH... U.K
TDI
98 GT.TDI 11O
did this a while back but because my turbo was reclocked to fit the stock piping it made it a bit more of a pain. but if your using stock turbo this isnt a bad how to . you deffinatly notice an increase in response not sure about anything else but definatly seems to respond instantly now
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Then I fit the whole thing on the car, and tightened all the clamps, and took her for a test drive! :D

I definitely noticed a good amount less turbo lag, and there should be a bit more top end power in theory, but I couldn't really tell much of a difference in overall power.
Do you have an EGT gauge? Any noticeable drop in EGTs? Even if the mod doesn't give any power gain(s), it may help lower EGTs, important for future mods you have planned. :cool:

Good luck.
 

bhodgkiss

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Location
Banbury, UK
TDI
AFN Passat Wagon
how does this mod actually help please? it looks to be larger volume, so how does this reduce lag? This is an intake pipe from the intercooler or into it? (I have a Passat, not Golf, just curious)
 

CalvinM

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2003 Golf
This is the inlet side of the intercooler from the turbo on our cars.

I am also wondering how this would reduce lag. I can definitely see the top end gains from more flow, but it does seem to me that a restriction there would help spool up a little bit faster.
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
No EGT gauge. I do have a scan gauge so I can see intake temps at the IC, and they didn't look too much different, if at all.

This pipe goes from the turbo to the intercooler.

I'm not sure if I'm correct on the theory behind why there would be less lag, but I believe the spool up is a function of boost requested by the ecu (which is a function of throttle input and tuning) and engine speed (and therefore exhaust flow available to spool). By opening up the path from turbo to intercooler your boost gets to the intake quicker and more efficiently, producing less lag and overboost. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
If Isonic ever gets me some of the pics he took I'll post them up. I turned a custom reducing coupler for him, he put a 1.75" elbow off of his 17/22, through my coupler to 2" either 30 or 45 elbow right into the pancake pipe.

Boost definitely comes on sooner. If people thought a 17/22 sounds funny, a 17/22 with a 1.8T pancake pipe sounds like rape.
 

isonic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2003 Golf 4door 5spd
If Isonic ever gets me some of the pics he took I'll post them up. I turned a custom reducing coupler for him, he put a 1.75" elbow off of his 17/22, through my coupler to 2" either 30 or 45 elbow right into the pancake pipe.

Boost definitely comes on sooner. If people thought a 17/22 sounds funny, a 17/22 with a 1.8T pancake pipe sounds like rape.
Yeah the 17/22 has a distinct sound. Then when a 1.8T pancake pipe is added it does sound pretty cool. Here are the pictures Jon was talking about:








Every thing is 2" except for the 1.75" 90 degree elbow that connects to the 17/22 outlet. It is a tight fit but it doesn't rub on the block and it sounds way better than the stock piping. Plus, being from a 1.8T, it can NeVaR lose ;-)
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
cool, ya you have a couple less connections compared to mine...

in the last pic, it looks like it was rubbing on your axle a bit...
 

Jakobicev

Veteran Member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Location
Croatia (Europe)
TDI
Bora ALH 2002
Mine is directly connected to the OEM turbo outlet rubber hose (vnt 15),no boost leaks and it hold's over a year now just fine


I did not noticed any power or any other gains,maybe the turbo is a little louder and that's all :)
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Mine is directly connected to the OEM turbo outlet rubber hose (vnt 15),no boost leaks and it hold's over a year now just fine
How the heck did you do that?

It looks like the rubber connector hose you have is just clamped down on top of the stock rubber hose?? Or is yours the one with the metal end connector? Man I didn't even think to try that because I was so set on getting rid of that metal end connector.


Actually, if I did it again, I think I would try to fit it with just the 2" to 1.375" reducer right off the inlet of the pancake pipe and use the stainless joiner to connect it to the stock turbo outlet pipe.

I could have also tried a similar method to yours with the early style outlet hose that I had by using a 2" to 1.75" reducer off the inlet of the pancake pipe, then put a 1.375" joiner inside the stock outlet hose to prevent it from collapsing, and then clamp the 1.75" end of the reducer over the outside of the stock outlet pipe.

Either way, good thinking. I'll have to go back and measure the exact outside diameter of that stock metal connector to give people who want to do this some more options that are easier and less expensive.
 
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Jakobicev

Veteran Member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Location
Croatia (Europe)
TDI
Bora ALH 2002
You are right,I forgot to mention earlier ,mine is stock hose with the metal end connector.
The reducer had maybe one mm free space so I putt some gasket silicone (very thin!) on the metal piece and clamped it with the bigger-wider clamp on the second pic...
Here is another one pic
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu221/mrki_os/NOVI/DSC01461.jpg
Taken with cell phone so it's crappy quality
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Have you had a chance to get the outside diameter of the turbo outlet hose/metal connecter? Thanks
not yet, sorry. i'm out of town, but i'll try to get it this week... anyone else have a stock turbo outlet hose that they want to measure??
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Have you had a chance to get the outside diameter of the turbo outlet hose/metal connecter? Thanks
I measures the OD of the stock turbo outlet hose's metal connector that attaches to the stock plastic pancake pipe and it is a 2" diameter.

So, all you really need to do this mod if you have the MY2000+ metal connector is get a 2" coupler and it should work. I guess I did it the hard way... :eek:
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Yeah, the hump hose should be the way to go as it will offer some flex to compensate for the slight difference in angle. I would also go with worm screw clamps instead of T-bolt clamps because of the limited room on the 1.8T pancake pipe side.

Let us know how it works out!
 

03Springer

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
Southern Nevada
TDI
2003 Golf GL+ 2013 A3 TDI
Received the hump hose and clamps yesterday and got around to installing this morning. No fitment issues with the t-bolt clamps. I did have to trim the 2" diameter hump hose on both ends. Ended up taking 1/4 inch off which helped the hose from the turbo from kinking to bad. Took it for a short spin afterwards and noticed a little smoother spool up. No issues with anything rubbing. For a total cost of $45 with shipping for two t-bolts, hump hose and the pancake pipe pretty reasonable price for this mod. Now to do the upper pipe and the OMI mods!
 

NewTdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Location
NorCal
TDI
2003 Bora, Reflex Silver
Thanks for the information. Guess I'll order the 2" hump hose and clamps and give it a go!
Do you have a picture of the 2" hose? Did you get a straight hose or a connector with a bend? I have had the pancake pipe in a box for a few months and I should really get around to installing it soon ...
 

FirstOrbit84

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Jax, FL
TDI
'02 2-Door Golf TDI
Thanks for the feedback springer! Glad it worked out for you. Seems like everyone else (including me) was over-engineering this mod.

Do you have a picture of the 2" hose? Did you get a straight hose or a connector with a bend? I have had the pancake pipe in a box for a few months and I should really get around to installing it soon ...
I believe the "hump" coupler that he's referring to is like this one:

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...id=11&osCsid=f926b232bcf88f976bcfef75034900fc

All you should need to do is order one of those, trim each end a bit, and then install it with one end on the 1.8T pancake pipe, and the other end on the metal connector of the stock turbo outlet pipe, with hose clamps on both.
 

03Springer

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
Southern Nevada
TDI
2003 Golf GL+ 2013 A3 TDI
Do you have a picture of the 2" hose? Did you get a straight hose or a connector with a bend? I have had the pancake pipe in a box for a few months and I should really get around to installing it soon ...
NewTDI,

Looks just like the one FirstOrbit posted. I have a slight kink in the stock hose exiting the turbo where the metal fitting fits inside of the hump hose, other than that it went together pretty easy. You need 2 2" tbolt clamps and the 2' hump hose. With shipping it came to approximately $25.
 
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