The <$100 Lower IC pipe (pancake pipe) upgrade

52172

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Buellton, Ca
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
We finished this mod on my 2001 golf on friday. We cut about an inch off the turbo exit rubber pipe so that when we connected the 2" hump coupler to the PP there was no kink in it. I do not notice any power gain, but it looks good and when I add the new tune and old man intake I think I will gain more than if it was the stock lower pipe. I am still running the stock intercooler since my MAP sensor was a large one and I couldn't plug it into the taco taco intercooler. We will swap intercoolers this weekend and might feel a gain then. The air is also really cold here now to. My turbo maybe got slightly quieter to. I am running stock downpipe with the mufflerectomy. Not sure why the turbo is slightly quieter. I can still hear the DV dump when I short shift.
 

Richptl

Vendor
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Location
Apalachin, NY
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI automatic 305,000 miles
Someone got a Kerma adapter from me for his VNT-17 turbo and he clocked the turbo on his ALH car so he could use a simple 45 elbow to a 1.8 T pancake pipe:



This won't work well on a PD100 car as there is a power steering rigid pipe in that area which you have to get around.

One thing I wonder about trying to go with really short and simple silicone hoses is that the hose has to absorb a lot of flexing in a limited distance. Seems like a longer hose would have less stress.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
I absolutely can't stand that rigid PS line on my BEW. I wonder if there's a way I can get rid of it.. Makes re-doing the lower IC pipe a pain in the ass.
 

52172

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Buellton, Ca
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
I have a 17/49 vnt 17 coming and am wondering what is needed to connect to the pancake pipe? Is the vnt17 outlet 2"? I'm thinking a 2" 45 degree couple with a 2" aluminum joiner and that should reach to my 2" hump coupler coming off my pancake pipe? I'm wondering is it better to clock the turbo? If you don't clock it do you need a 90 deg coupler to come off the turbo outlet?
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
My IC pipe chewed a hole in mine....:mad:


I absolutely can't stand that rigid PS line on my BEW. I wonder if there's a way I can get rid of it.. Makes re-doing the lower IC pipe a pain in the ass.
 

GOTDIZL

Active member
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Black
Just did this mod last night. I am running the KermaTDI SMIC and discovered the angle is a bit different than the OE IC. I had to grind the material extending past the bead of the 1.8T pipe to avoid interference. I'm not too happy with the fit of the bump hose and will eventually replace my turbo outlet-to-PP hose if just to get rid of that silly metal connector. I also removed a bit too much of the bump hose lip and ended up with the hose clamps right at the edge of the hose. Oops. I like to have a bit of hose extending past the clamp but so far no problems.

Results:

Seems to spool quicker and once it does the "kick in" has more punch.
Definitely 1-2PSI more boost. I was getting 9-10PSI if I moderately laid into it but 10-12 is easily achieved now with spikes around 22PSI.
It's louder.
Even the wife says it has more power and is smoother so you KNOW it works HAHA!

While I was down there I also adapted the stock IC shroud to kinda fit the Kerma IC. Viewing from the front, remove the left and top od the tunnel. You can now fit it up thru the front fascia and trim as needed to fit. I used metal tape and 3M Tough Duct tape to seal the gaps and hold it in place. It's not perfect but at least the air isn't able to dump out the bottom and it should keep some road debris out.
 
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52172

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Buellton, Ca
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
I'm going to install my vnt17 and connect to my 1.8t pancake pipe with 2" hump hose. Do I need a 90 deg or 45 deg silicone couplet to come off my turbo outlet? That and an aluminum joiner?
 

raresvintea

Member
Joined
May 24, 2011
Location
Romania
TDI
ALH/AYM
I have hose with metal connector on my ALH. If i cut the metal part, what is the inside diameter of the hose? I read so much versions... I want to weld a adapter directly to pancake pipe
 
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3turboz

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Tempe AZ USA
TDI
2000 Golf GL Wolfsberg
I have hose with metal connector on my ALH. If i cut the metal part, what is the inside diameter of the hose? I read so much versions... I want to weld a adapter directly to pancake pipe
My old plastic ALH pancake pipe has a 36mm pipe on the inlet side with a 1mm bead. That should be the about 35mm ID on that hose I would think.
 

raresvintea

Member
Joined
May 24, 2011
Location
Romania
TDI
ALH/AYM
What i actually measured today, on the exterior of the hose near qucik coupling was 48mm. Inside should be less 2x thickness of the rubber.
 

Schuttsr1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Location
Hastings,MN
TDI
2001 Golf, 2003 Wagon, 2003 Jetta
So with all the talk of flow restrictions with the adaptor setups to fit the 1.8T pipe is it worth the hassle over the factory pancake pipe?
 

3turboz

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Tempe AZ USA
TDI
2000 Golf GL Wolfsberg
So with all the talk of flow restrictions with the adaptor setups to fit the 1.8T pipe is it worth the hassle over the factory pancake pipe?

I still contend that when your turbo outlet is about a 1" hole, the pancake pipe is probably not the limiting factor. Nor is anything downstream of the turbo. This is a theory as I have not done testing to verify it.

Now, if you are running something bigger than a VNT-17, it might make a difference since you got rid of the small turbo outlet.

Did I still put one on my car? You bet! LOL
 
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wandlc

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Location
Visalia, CA
TDI
2000 NB GLS TDI
Ok, I have a 1.8T pancake pipe I would like to install on my 2002 Jetta and I am not understanding how just a hump hose and clamps is all that is needed. Could someone help me out with a link to the necessary parts. Thank you,
Steven
 

torquefoot

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Location
Toronto
TDI
1990 Jetta 1.6TD
I still contend that when your turbo outlet is about a 1" hole, the pancake pipe is probably not the limiting factor. Nor is anything downstream of the turbo. This is a theory as I have not done testing to verify it.

Now, if you are running something bigger than a VNT-17, it might make a difference since you got rid of the small turbo outlet.

Did I still put one on my car? You bet! LOL
In HVAC systems, pressure drop coefficients are used to calculate energy loss in a system. The most robbing are elbows and reducers but there is measurable loss at straight, flat sections as well.

The reason the 1" turbo outlet is irrelevant to other restrictions along the air path is because the pressure is highest at this point which means it is moving the most air. Immediately after exiting the turbo the air begins to slow down as it meets slower air which is encountering friction along the path downstream from the turbo because the chamber between the turbo and the pancake pipe is larger than the bottleneck in the pancake pipe itself which means the air must squeeze through resulting in significant friction and therefore pressure loss. Removing this bottleneck will most definitely improve efficiency; by what factor I cant say.
 

isonic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2003 Golf 4door 5spd
So with all the talk of flow restrictions with the adaptor setups to fit the 1.8T pipe is it worth the hassle over the factory pancake pipe?
It absolutely is, or at the very least, replace the factory pancake pipe with anything else that is larger. IMO the 1.8T pancake pipe was one of the most beneficial pipe/air mods I did.
 

3turboz

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Tempe AZ USA
TDI
2000 Golf GL Wolfsberg
Ok, I have a 1.8T pancake pipe I would like to install on my 2002 Jetta and I am not understanding how just a hump hose and clamps is all that is needed. Could someone help me out with a link to the necessary parts. Thank you,
Steven
The hump hose is all that is needed ONLY IF you have the boost hose with the metal end to clip into the pancake pipe. My early Y2K had a clamped end. I ended up buying a Gates boost hose from rock auto that had the metal end.

See page 2 of this post for parts.
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Yes. I posted on the first page. Just need to weld a 2.5 inlet on the 1.8T pancake pipe, then use the up upgraded hose from idparts.

Btw, that's with a 17/22 turbo, what turbo are you planning on using?
 

Mawcus

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Location
Bellingham, WA
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI BEW PD 5 Speed
I was just curious about this upgrade so no concrete plans yet but I would be doing it on a stock turbo KP39 if possible. Eventually I will be upgrading to a bigger turbo but no plans anytime soon.
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
I would wait until you have the bigger turbo. The K39 requires a special hose, and you would have to modify it to fit the 1.8T pancake pipe.
 

1.9glstdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
J-vill,FL
TDI
2005 passat waggon BHW PD
Does anybody know what the ID of the stock bew hose coming out of the turbo is? My quick disconnect has lost a tab. I am going to order a turbo outlet adapter from kermatdi or the like. I can't me sure mine right now. Lack of tools and being in wisconsin and my garage is in Florida. Lol thanks in advance for any help
 
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