TDIFest 2007 is coming to Montréal, Canada

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
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S Central PA (Breezewood)
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Biohoward said:
...
Go to the local post office and present your picture to the clerk and they in turn will give you a form to fill out.
Fill out the form, answer all of the questions and you are good to go. Your passport will be mailed back to your home.
...
You can also go to http://travel.state.gov/passport/forms/ds11/ds11_842.html and do one of two things. First there is a link to a webpage where you can fill out all of the information for the form. Once the information is completed the page will print the form you need. Second there is a link to the PDF of the form you can print and fillout prior to going to the filling agency (post office, court, etc). Just don't sign the form until you are presenting it.
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
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Location
Versailles, Kentucky
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2015 Audi Q5 TDI, 2000 New Beetle
At this point, looks like I'll get to preview my stay in Montreal. Canada's first Busch race is August 4, and I'll probably be working it.
 

Hamsterdiesel

TDIClub Enthusiast , Veteran Member & HO5G CoFound
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Location
NH
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1999 Golf IV, Black and now 2015 Reflex Silver Passat SE
The Fest decision really comes down to whether Fred thinks...

A. The site chosen is feasible.
B. The crew presenting the proposal is capable of delivering what they promise.
C. The proposed activies are appropriate/attractive to club members.

I speak in extreme generalities here. The quality and content of the proposal is vital to Fred in making this decision.

I'm not sure if any other proposals made it Fred's way this year.


* Only Fred can say for sure how he really decides these things!;)
I'm listing just some of the things I know he considers.
 
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TeDeEye1

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Location
Peoria, IL
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2013 Passat SEL TDI Premium
I'm glad to see we are going to have the Fest again. After the Florida attempt fell through I was worried it would not happen.

Congratulations to all who worked to get it to Montreal again:)

I have been to Toronto but never Montreal so it should be fun.

I made it to to the 2006 Fest in one shot, 800 miles. Not sure I can do 1200 in one shot, or that I should even try:rolleyes: Might had to stop off at my brother's in Rochester for a wink or two.

I would also like again to thank everyone who put the 2006 Fest together. Despite the dealer having my car during the whole stay it was fun anyway.
 

WPB TDI FRED

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Location
SOUTH FLORIDA
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03 JETTA - Stick
Hamsterdiesel said:
The Fest decision really comes down to whether Fred thinks...
A. The site chosen is feasible.
B. The crew presenting the proposal is capable of delivering what they promise.
C. The proposed activies are appropriate/attractive to club members.

I speak in extreme generalities here. The quality and content of the proposal is vital to Fred in making this decision.
So it seem as if there are no "objective standards" by which to evaluate one location (proposal) over another.

Assuming most here just know each other from "online" conversations and nothing more, I am not sure how "B" could/would be evaluated. :confused: Would it be required to submit a resume showing experience in event planning?:confused:



Hamsterdiesel said:
* Only Fred can say for sure how he really decides these things!;) quote]

:confused:
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Fred does ask for resumes. And there are objective standards: cost, proximity to strong member groups, available activities local to the site, ability to drive/fly in easily, hotel facilities (parking, wireless, etc.).

Finally, most of the people that are deep enough into the group to do Fest planning know each other, and have spent time with Fred.
 

VW Derf

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Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
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2010 Blue Graphite Pearl Golf Variant
WPB TDI FRED said:
So it seem as if there are no "objective standards" by which to evaluate one location (proposal) over another.

Assuming most here just know each other from "online" conversations and nothing more, I am not sure how "B" could/would be evaluated. :confused: Would it be required to submit a resume showing experience in event planning?:confused:

Hamsterdiesel said:
* Only Fred can say for sure how he really decides these things!;)
:confused:
Yes, I do it objectively if that is what you are referring to. Getting a good proposal that shows the group can work together, has worked out ideas, etc is a big first step. You'd be surprised how many groups fizzle when it comes to getting even the proposal in. I did not include the resume of each team member in the posted proposal, but it was included as the size of each TDIFest, so do the demands. In a sense the proposal separates a lot of the talkers from the doers.

Those groups that are want one in their backyard, talk your local members and get yourselves together for 2008!

{fixed typo}
 
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Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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WPB TDI FRED said:
So it seem as if there are no "objective standards" by which to evaluate one location (proposal) over another. :confused:
To the contrary, there have always been objections to the standards used in the selection process.
 

dieselgus

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Location
PA, SK
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Woo hoo! Sounds like an excellent opportunity to spend a week in la belle provence!

I am so there it is not even funny.......
 

WPB TDI FRED

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Location
SOUTH FLORIDA
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03 JETTA - Stick
Lug_Nut said:
To the contrary, there have always been objections to the standards used in the selection process.
So, what you are saying is that the decision/election-process of selecting a location for a "Fest" is based on a SUBJECTIVE, and not OBJECTIVE standards/considerations (whatever they are). Correct?
In other words, what one person subjectively decides where the event is to be held based on whatever is submitted? Is that correct? :confused:

I have not seen anything anywhere here (on the webpage) that outlines these issues for the selection and decision-making process for a Fest. :confused:
 

whitedog

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WPB TDI FRED said:
So, what you are saying is that the decision/election-process of selecting a location for a "Fest" is based on a SUBJECTIVE, and not OBJECTIVE standards/considerations (whatever they are). Correct?
In other words, what one person subjectively decides where the event is to be held based on whatever is submitted? Is that correct? :confused:

I have not seen anything anywhere here (on the webpage) that outlines these issues for the selection and decision-making process for a Fest. :confused:
It's Freds site.

It's Freds descision.

Live with it.
 

MikeS_18

Top Post Dawg
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WPB TDI FRED said:
In other words, what one person subjectively decides where the event is to be held based on whatever is submitted? Is that correct? :confused:
Why does it matter? I'm not sure where you are going with this.

This is a "club" which is loosely organized around this website but doesn't have a board or bylaws or anything. So, as a result, Fred chooses based on his decision about how to choose.

In other words, it's his ball and if we want to play, we play where he says the game is.

Ca va?
 

BlueCTTDi

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VW Derf said:
Yes, I do it objectively if that is what you are referring to. Getting a good proposal that shows the group can work together, has worked out ideas, etc is a big first step. You'd be surprised how many groups fizzle when it comes to getting even the proposal in. I did not include the resume of each team member in the posted proposal, but it was included as the size of each TDIFest, so do the demands. In a sense the proposal separates a lot of the talkers from the doers.

Those groups that are want one in their backyard, talk your local me members and get yourselves together for 2008!
last sentence of fred's response might be the best advice to be had instead of having a circular discussion about it... just my $.02..
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
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Location
Newark, OH
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I'm posting this in this thread to avoid cluttering the traveling from the US to Canada thread. But, it's a reply to GoFaster's post in there.

GoFaster said:
what a Gatso looks like


:D (j/k, but that is what a Gatso, post torching, looks like...)

At least they're just for red light runners. We've got four of those in Columbus, OH, as well.

GoFaster said:
Ontario's posted 100 km/h limit is widely ignored.
How big of a turbo should I buy? ;) (Roughly how much faster than the limit does traffic go? My car doesn't really like to cruise above 70 MPH (113 km/h), but I've done 80 MPH (129 km/h).)
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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TDIinRI enjoyed getting the A5 into triple digits while cruising (or racing) around Montreal when we were hotel hunting. But there are other places (between Montreal and the border, for example) where he was careful not to speed.
 

WPB TDI FRED

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03 JETTA - Stick
MikeS_18 said:
Why does it matter? I'm not sure where you are going with this.

This is a "club" which is loosely organized around this website but doesn't have a board or bylaws or anything. So, as a result, Fred chooses based on his decision about how to choose.

In other words, it's his ball and if we want to play, we play where he says the game is.

Ca va?
Well, I was just MERELY inquiring about the process to determine if certain issues, such as liability (given that the "club" is "loosely organized" as you put it) is considered or even addressed (and if so, then HOW) in the equation of "submitting a bid".

In any "bid" I would be asking myself: Who assumes liability for the event in case of a problem?
 

Teejay

Active member
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Location
Windsor, Ontario
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI Sport Edition, Platinum Grey
WPB TDI FRED said:
Well, I was just MERELY inquiring about the process to determine if certain issues, such as liability (given that the "club" is "loosely organized" as you put it) is considered or even addressed (and if so, then HOW) in the equation of "submitting a bid".

In any "bid" I would be asking myself: Who assumes liability for the event in case of a problem?
One can only assume the organizers of any particular TDI Fest would institute an "attend at your own risk" policy.

I imagine the parties involved in any particular incident, but I'm sure if I'm wrong, someone will correct me. Why so worried anyway?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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I'd like to give a reasoned response to this but I have to admit that discussions of liability irritate me. Americans are uniquely unwilling to take responsiblity for their own behavior, and always want to look for someone who they can blame for things that go wrong. It costs our economy terribly and makes us less competitive as a nation. OK, now I'll put the soap box away.

Regarding liability and the Fest, we consider the following. First, we do our best to organize and run acitivities that are low risk (low speed autocross versus high speed, for example). Outside activities (go karts, jet skis, whatever) are governed by liability rules the provider puts in place. The hotel has its own liability clauses when you check in (that's a contract you're signing), and this includes things such as any petty or not so petty crime that takes place on their property. I imagine that everyone's car has insurance for the vehicle and its contents. And, finally, TDIClub.com hardly has deep pockets, so I would hope it keeps it from being a target of litigation.

Now we should all think about how I could have better used the time spent answering this post and thinking about risk. Arrrgh.
 

Zippy_car

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Farm country, Sacramento, CA region
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Proposal/Fest inquiry answers

TDI Fred - Just an FYI, it seems as though your posts are starting to get more crass/defensive sounding in tone with each one you post regarding the decision making process of TDIFest. My advice to you is to take a step back and take a look at what others are posting in response to your posts from another view point, rather than from a defensive possition.

The deal with the fest decision process/propsal submission/liability issue goes like so:

The Proposal: When a group of individuals decides to take on submitting a proposal they do so on a volunteer basis. it is a group of people who get together with the same goal in mind: Organizing/hosting a great Fest where people can come together with a common interest to have a good time, make new friends, and enjoy their time together. If people are serious in wanting to be involved with organizing a fest, than that dedication must be shown in results that takes the form of a proposal. Every proposal is different, there's no current guidlines as to what is included in a proposal (although, i'm sure at this point there will be a review and list of information that may want to be included in said proposal). This is a learning process, each year Fred and club members gain more experience and more knowledge as to what makes a good Fest and good proposal. How much work you put into making the propsal and more importantly, getting the information to support the proposal is the most important part.

The Decision: as Fred has already answered, he bases his decisions as objectively as possible when it comes to looking at the proposal. He's looking for a crew of volunteers that have done the research and taken active steps to solidifying what is being discussed in the proposal. If a proposal is handed in and is nothing more than a 2 paragraph description of what one group would like to do, that's not enough. It takes more than that to organize a Fest. He's looking for a group who has already scoped out locations, costs, thought about weekend activities, has an approporaite number of organizers/volunteers (each year is different! - in other words 1 or 2 people is not enough), and has a solid proposal with more hard evidence of being able to pull off an event like this, than just the "We propose to have the fest here...." with nothing solid to support the claim of we want!
Think of the decision making process as an interview process, with your proposal being your formal resume. You don't just hand an employer a resume with all the information their looking for, if you don't have the actual experience or foundation for being able to perform the job. and when Fred looks as your proposal and asks you questions about it (which he does), if he feels that your group is not up to the task, he will not choose you to organize it. It's that simple. Fred is your potential "employer," you must do what you can to impress him with your hard work and appreciation for the cause.
Again: the reason for it taking place in the East Coast AGAIN this year, is because no other group of volunteers has stepped up to submitt a proposal. If another group of organizers would like the Fest to be in their back yard , in another part of the country, or in their country, then let them show that they can (and re willing to) organize themselves and get a proposal submitted that lives up to Fred's/the Fests' needs and standards!

The liability: This is an event that is organized on a volunteer basis. This is an internet club that you are a member of. the club is not responsible for any wrong doing, accidental or purposeful injruy, damage to yourself or your machine, etc. the fest is an ATTEND AT YOUR OWN RISK event. If you so choose to go, then it is your responsibility to make sure that you are abiding by the laws, that you work on your car responsibily (as there are plently of qualified people at this event to help you do so), and that you treat yourself, others, and the facility with the proper amount of respect. As we do here on Fred's TDIClub, one would expect that you would treat the Fest with the same amount of respsect and responsibility that you show here on the forum. And if we feel that you are violating this common sensical, unspoken rule, then we as Fest organizers, reserve the right to ask you to leave the Fest - the same way that we would ask you to leave the forum. Liability is your own, not ours. The rest of the Fest is covered by the venue (they have their own liability insurance), your car insurance, and your personal health care insurance (should you get injured doing something at the fest). We are not responsilble for what may or may not happen to you as you have voluntarily attended this event. You are the only one who can be resposible for yourself.

Your concerns are notably valid, i hope that this message serves to answer your questions. We can only take away more experience based on others inquiry, and build from it at later Fests. Your excitment, enthusiasm and inquiry is always welcome.

**Edit** For those of you that are curious to know what goes into creating a fest proposal there's a new Fest Proposal Submission Info thread. Please submit all questions regarding fest proposal information there. Now back to our regularly scheduled "Yay for Fest in Montreal!" :D
 
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WPB TDI FRED

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Thanks for the thoughtful responses IndigoBlueWagon and Zippy car.

Just for your information, however, the focus of my initial concerns were really only limited to the liability exposure of the event organizers relative to the hotel and other aspects of the event-planning process. That would be one of my principal concerns in drafting a future bid (with others). I imagine that, in putting the event together, certain contracts would have to be entered into with the hotel, etc..etc..to reserve rooms, allocate space, etc..etc.., and those contracts would have to be signed by, and entered into with, an air-breathing live person, and not with some pseudo individual claiming to be a representative of some cyberspace club (given what MikeS_18 said above about the club) that only exists in cyberspace. I think you understand my point. It was this issue of "personal liability" that was the focus of my inquiry, and not about the guy that ran over the safety cone, and killed the 80 year-old lady in the wheelchair in the parking lot in the process.

As to stepping "back and take a look at what others are posting", it seems to me that most have taken a "defensive" approach at addressing the issue(s) I previously raised in good faith, and not for the purpose of agitating anyone. Case in point: Whitedog's
" **Stands and applauds.** " comment. Was it that offensive? Another one is IndigoBlueWagon prefacing his response by initially commenting that: "Americans are uniquely unwilling to take responsiblity for their own behavior, and always want to look for someone who they can blame for things that go wrong." I TOTALLY AGREE that EVERYONE should take responsibility for their own behavior. Unfortunately, at times people (and companies alike), breach the duty they owe to others as imposed by them by law, and upon that breach a liability is created, to the injured party, in order to restore the injured person's position prior to the breach.

Hey, I'm sorry that all of this has apparently been taken the wrong way by some.

/end
 

whitedog

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Location
Bend, Oregon
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Dangit. I guess I will stop applauding someone when they take that much time with such a well written post.

Sorry Zippy.
 

Zippy_car

Trouble Maker
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Location
Farm country, Sacramento, CA region
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Previously:'02 Jetta. Now: '13 Subaru XV Crosstrek!
WPB TDI FRED said:
Thanks for the thoughtful responses IndigoBlueWagon and Zippy car.

Just for your information, however, the focus of my initial concerns were really only limited to the liability exposure of the event organizers relative to the hotel and other aspects of the event-planning process. That would be one of my principal concerns in drafting a future bid (with others). I imagine that, in putting the event together, certain contracts would have to be entered into with the hotel, etc..etc..to reserve rooms, allocate space, etc..etc.., and those contracts would have to be signed by, and entered into with, an air-breathing live person, and not with some pseudo individual claiming to be a representative of some cyberspace club (given what MikeS_18 said above about the club) that only exists in cyberspace. I think you understand my point. It was this issue of "personal liability" that was the focus of my inquiry, and not about the guy that ran over the safety cone, and killed the 80 year-old lady in the wheelchair in the parking lot in the process.

As to stepping "back and take a look at what others are posting", it seems to me that most have taken a "defensive" approach at addressing the issue(s) I previously raised in good faith, and not for the purpose of agitating anyone. Case in point: Whitedog's
" **Stands and applauds.** " comment. Was it that offensive? Another one is IndigoBlueWagon prefacing his response by initially commenting that: "Americans are uniquely unwilling to take responsiblity for their own behavior, and always want to look for someone who they can blame for things that go wrong." I TOTALLY AGREE that EVERYONE should take responsibility for their own behavior. Unfortunately, at times people (and companies alike), breach the duty they owe to others as imposed by them by law, and upon that breach a liability is created, to the injured party, in order to restore the injured person's position prior to the breach.

Hey, I'm sorry that all of this has apparently been taken the wrong way by some.

/end
Point taken, and well recieved on my part. Thank you for clarifying. :)
I believe you are correct. We do have to sign a contract with the Hotel venue in order to reserve space, etc and claim liability with the hotel for any action taken on the part of the club members. How this works in detail, i do not specifically know as of yet, but when i do know, i will be sure to post. Perhaps TDIinRI could shed a little more light on that topic, as could Fred, and previous Fest organizers I'm sure.

That being the case, to my knowledge we've never had reason to have had liability held accountable to the Fest organizers for a club members disrespect to the hotel, property, staff, etc. Someone, please correct me if i'm wrong (as i've only been to 1 fest so far, and am working on #2). I would like to go out on a limb and hypothesize that perhaps if something did go wrong, and there was a breach of contract; whatever damages did incur to venue properties as designated by the contract, would be covered by funds earned by TDIClub to aide in returning the property back to it's original state before such offense was had, and action may then be pursued against the offending party by TDIClub. However (always trying to be the optimist ;) ), i do not see this club as being the type to walk in a tear a place up for fun in association with TDIClub. And again, if they do, i personally reserve the right as a Fest organizer to ask this member to leave the Fest as a consequence to their actions, and then persue action accordingly and appororiately. But again, i HOPE that would never happen, and don't forsee it ever happeneing... but i can see your point, TDI Fred, that you never know and someone other than cyberspace must be held accountable. That may be something that we need to persue farther, and more formally, for furture fests, especially as they start to grow larger!

Thank you for expanding my thought process (and hopefully others as well) on how we can better serve TDIFest, it's organizers, and the club itself in future events (and posts). ... That poor 80 y/o granny in the wheelchair, wait.. unless it was the little old lady from Pasadena!? - She tried to steal my jetta at the last Fest so I ran her over!! She's still alive!! i won't let her try to steal my jetta again! Banned, i tell you! Banned! ;)
 
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MikeS_18

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We can all speculate on this, but a real lawyer's opinion would be best. I would suspect that only Fred would have real liability since he is the most "connected" in a real way to this group but opinions would certainly vary.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
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Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
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None
This hasn't become a concern because we aren't VWvortex - read: we aren't a bunch of idiots.
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
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Sep 25, 1997
Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
I continue to stand and applaud you Zippy. You have shown why fests continue to be held by your "can do" spirit, not a "but what if" attitude.

People who cannot hold themselves responsible should not organize or attend a fest. Does it get any simpler than that?
 
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