TDI with a 4L65 automatic in a Jeep TJ

[rooney77]

Looks good if you are planning on keeping the sealed system. If not, the backwards L heading to the ball in the bottom left will need to be plugged. Also, there is another guy I know had overheating issues due to the heater core he used so you may want to try and make the stock one work.

Also, do you have a compressor? If not, at some point mine will be available since I'm deleting it.

 

[greengeeker]

Mcneil- you need to keep the small line in the system that comes off the back of the head.

 

[mcneil]

Looks good if you are planning on keeping the sealed system. If not, the backwards L heading to the ball in the bottom left will need to be plugged. Also, there is another guy I know had overheating issues due to the heater core he used so you may want to try and make the stock one work.

Also, do you have a compressor? If not, at some point mine will be available since I'm deleting it.

Mcneil- you need to keep the small line in the system that comes off the back of the head.

Copy. That and all the other small lines tie together for venting/bleeding, right?

I've seen a handful of ALH swaps with overheating issues.. that can be caused by failure to bleed out air. Looks like VW put some effort into the venting/bleeding setup, maybe trying to tap all the high points.


Got a compressor now, hopefully it works

 

[rooney77]

Mcneil- you need to keep the small line in the system that comes off the back of the head.

Would tying that line in with the larger line on the back of the head work?

 

[greengeeker]

I tied mine into my heater core line which ultimately runs back to the hard pipe (inlet to the water pump). I had planned on doing this directly but opted for the simpler routing.

 

[mcneil]

Not really going to be any good updates for a while. Engine mount bracket planning is still in the cardboard stage, ordered some rubber mounts.

Got the hardline pulled off the motor and in my trunk. Going to clean that up and rearrange some outlets. Blocking off the one that interferes with the mount, and rerouting the heater core feed up so I can run hose over the head instead of behind it.

 

[mcneil]

Also, for anyone looking for inspiration on engine mount design, I found this in another TDIconversion thread:
http://www.kotinet.com/hamalainen.pekka/moottori.htm

Beautiful tube-fab on the turbo side mount, and he grabbed the bracket bolt on the filter side:

 

[rooney77]

That's a crazy looking mount. I dig it. I just got through doing the plate side of my mounts. I still need to swing the motor between the frame rails so I can figure out the positioning of the rubber mounts and then make the "sticky outty" parts of the engine mounts.

 

[mcneil]

Good news for anyone trying to run air conditioning: I pulled out the front springs and even dropped on the bumpstops, the upper control arm clears the compressor.

Just barely..

Additionally, if anyone wants safety lessons on a hi-lift jack, I've got 6 stitches worth of teaching material. I hit myself upside the head with the jack handle - just like it says on the warning label. I broke rule #1 of the hi-lift: keep your hand on the handle and your head out of the way. I got lucky, it hit me square on the ear, and while that hurts like hell, the ear absorbed some impact and prevented a concussion or worse.

 

[rooney77]

Hi-lifts can get away from you quickly. Glad to hear it wasn't too severe.

Man that control arm is close. Is that at full bump? You may want to articulate the front axle to be sure there is no interference in different situations. rarely does an axle move straight up as a whole. Excluding speed bumps of course.

 

[mcneil]

I checked with full articulation, both sides. Those upper arms don't move much, left to right. It looks a lot closer than it is, you can actually fit a 3/4" block all around the compressor.

 

[rooney77]

3/4" is more than enough. I knew the upper arms don't move much but in the pic it looks like about 1/8" clearance so that had me concerned. Sounds like you got it under control. Good work and keep at it. I love seeing these conversions.

 

[mcneil]

Been making progress at a slow and steady pace.

New yokes are installed. These are high clearance units from JB Conversions, good quality product.
Only problem is that the flange nut doesn't fit the counterbore in the yoke, so I had to turn it down on the lathe by about 1/16".

Center crossmember is 2.5" square tube, 1/4" wall.
Not going to be quite the flat belly I hoped, but the bump for the t-case front output is less than 1.5", so I'll deal.
The transmission pan is still flush with the bottom of the frame rails.

The left front mount sits on a removable crossmember that goes under the engine.
Clearing the front shaft was a bit of a challenge. Crossmember is built up from 1/8" plate with reinforcements.
Working out where everything needed to be took some iterations and is the main reason I haven't had much to show in the past 3 months.

Also, rooney77 was right about the clearances, it was too tight.
Full articulation was less than 1/4" to the upper control arm - no bueno.
Turns out the TJ rear axle pinion is offset 2" to the right, so when I shifted everything 1" right, life just got better.
(at least until I try to fit the body back on)

Rear mount uses two rubber bushings, here's the mount that bolts onto the Novak adapter

Here you can just see it peeking out from under the tcase.

Next up:
1. Make the tabs to attach the rear mount to the crossmember
2. Pull the motor out of the way
3. Finish welding in all the tack-welded parts
4. Drill frame & install tubes for crossmember mounts

About a days work, right? Yeah, I should have it done by fall.

 

[mcneil]

More progress than I was expecting, but so far
1. Rear mount tabs are fabbed and tacked in place
2. Motor's out of the way
3. Front crossmember mounts are burned in
4. Frame is drilled and I'm working on the tubes.

Some progress on the front crossmember, and I borrowed a mag base drill press for drilling the frame.

Also started intake manifold cleaning and ordered up a timing belt kit.

Next up:
- Make the sleeves for the frame, get the bolts in
- Finish welding up the rear crossmember
- timing belt on the motor

 

[mcneil]

Timing belt time!

This motor has been sitting for about a year now since it was pulled from the car in Germany. Looked like this was the first timing belt job.

I pulled the water pump and saw this:

Normal? Any signs of distress?

I cleaned it up, it looks like this now:

The thing that worried me was the groove corroded into the o-ring seal surface.

 

[mcneil]

All car projects have a turning point; you start with a worn, but somewhat intact looking vehicle, and then spend hours tearing stuff apart and cutting away pieces. To a casual observer, it looks as if the chaos is increasing the more time you spend on it. Then you hit this point, usually when the first coat of paint starts to go back on. Now, things are looking visually better. The more time spent, the better it looks.

Finished the frame welding last weekend. I still need to fix the rust on the rear sections, but that's going to have to be another project. The new crossmember mounts are solidly burned in, and I gave everything a wash with naval jelly, then hit it with some Rustoleum primer. I figure when I come back in a year to clean up the frame, the Rustoleum can be sandblasted off easier than rust.

Thick sections with a 110V welder = preheat and MULTIPASS!!

 

[mcneil]

All mounts are done, and the motor is back into the frame.

Frame awaiting it's motor:

Motor installed:

The washer stack is for leveling the mounts. This is my vibe mount OCD flaring up, but I shimmed the mounts until they were all evenly compressed. The reason the shim pack is so thick is that I left room to switch to a beefier isolator if I needed to.

Clearances with springs out, sitting on the bumpstops.

 

[mcneil]

Thanks to TDIclub member dwiesel I have a stock jetta exhaust to modify. I ordered a stainless u-bend from mandrel-bends.com, of which I only needed 45 degrees.

Design points for the exhaust:
1. The OEM cat is being retained, at least until it's reviewed by the California smog ref. The rules on diesel cats in CA are messed up, and I figure it's best to just go with stock for now. I cleaned out as much soot as I could from this cat, but it's still a 13 year old cat. A new universal fit diesel cat would probably be cleaner, but it's not technically legal under CARB rules.

2. Exhaust is routed above the crossmember, level with bottom of the frame. Going for that flat-belly jeep look.

3. The new front half of the exhaust mates up to the old rear half in the stock location. This way I can throw in a magnaflow or Banks aftermarket cat-back system, should I have the desire.

Pics:

 

[mcneil]

More pictures of the exhaust welded up.

These are pretty sweet joints, $24 at Jegs for the 2-1/4" 409 stainless versions. I got the idea for them from a friend's GT500 - Ford uses these in the factory systems, and it makes fine adjustments much easier.

Also started flushing out the power steering box.

 

[donDavide]

Very Nice!

 

[454k30]

Man, I wish I had these fabrication skills! That is a great looking conversion.

 

[rooney77]

Looking good. You're further along than I am. Keep at it.

 

[mcneil]

Looking good. You're further along than I am. Keep at it.

Not for long!
It's forecast to hit 105F this weekend - the thing's going to be too hot to touch until September. Time to rig up a shade over the driveway.

 

[mcneil]

Very happy to be done with the heavy metal fab out in the driveway, 'cause it's getting hot out there. I re-purposed an HVAC duct to add AC to my garage; one day I may add a proper damper but for now I just remove the spring clamp from the tube when I want to cool it off.

So after the point in the project when everything starts looking better, you have to really turn on the money tap. Tube fittings, connectors, hose, shafts, are all purchases under under $20 that add up fast. Most of those are due to choosing an automatic transmission; dipstick, 12' of SS 3/8 tube, and associated fittings adds up to about $200, which is the original price I paid for the 4L65e on CL.

Currently I have on order:
- JKS upper adjustable control arms for the rear axle
- OEM electric fan from a 03-05 TJ (thanks to Dsmart's HPA TJ)
- Cherokee shifter bezel
- Harness for 241OR position sensor
- Adapter fitting from AN-6 to GM's weird 1/4 NPSM trans cooler connection
- Conversion dipstick for the 4L65e
- new exhaust hanger
- a pile of small plastic clips for the brake/fuel lines

The best part about ordering all this junk is every day is your birthday, and who doesn't like presents?

Like this new Stainless Steel brakeline kit.
(I have a flaring tool, but this wasn't that much more than the price of the material).

 

[mcneil]

Started bending up the lines for the transmission cooler. These will be routed to the cooler built into the stock TJ radiator - no plans at this time for an auxiliary cooler.. though I'm second guessing that as I say it. The 4L65e I'm using is going to have an easier life in my <4000lb jeep than it did in a Chevy fullsize pickup, but the TDI is going to keep the water temperatures at 190F instead of 165F. There's a piece of conventional wisdom that says every 20F over 170F doubles the oxidation rate of the trans fluid.

But rather than overengineer it up front (me? never!), I'll go with no aux cooler for now and just keep an eye on the fluid color when I start driving it. Adding a secondary cooler is pretty easy to do later.

So here's the start of the pipe jungle on the driver's side. Two cooler lines, exhaust, and the dipstick. Adapters go from 1/4-NPSM to AN-6, and the tubing is 3/8" 301SS I got from the local hydraulic shop with flared ends.

Adjustable protractor came in handy for doing the bends. I was bending with my little 1/4-3/8" brake line bender with tiny handles, so there was a lot of "just grunt & eyeball it".

Still it came out ok. Need to make some tabs & clamps, then drill the engine mount bracket for a bolt. And we had some rain last weekend, which is nature's way of reminding me to not be sloppy throw a coat of primer on stuff when I finish fab.

I also got the JKS control arms installed. The JKS arms are adjusted to 7/8" longer than the stock arms, which points the pinon just below the transfer case output yoke.

Total driveshaft length came out to be 20-7/8" yoke to yoke. FYI, that's unreal for a TJ; a stock jeep with a "extreme" slip-yoke eliminator kit still only runs maybe a 17" driveshaft. The longer driveshaft means less severe angles under flex, even though I've got the t-case tucked up above the framerails.

Called up Tom Woods Driveshaft today, and the new shaft should be here when I get back from vacation this weekend.

 

[mcneil]

Been at it over the last week. I decided to cut the transmission cooler hardlines back to just the edge of the engine mount. They were going to run all the way up to the front of the motor, but that would have had the rubber lines running out in the open up to the radiator. This way I can route the rubber lines along the frame rail. More hose, but less likely to get snagged while wheeling.

The hard lines are stainless with 6-AN flares on the end. I brazed on some stainless clips from McMaster to hold the free end of the line.

I also finally blasted & painted the brackets

Getting to be a good sized nest of pipes

Also got the driveshafts in, perfect fit and no binding through the suspension travel. Tom Woods is amazing - exactly what you need, overnight, at just about the same cost as a local shop.

The stock trackbar, on the otherhand, needed some work. When you lengthen the upper arms to rotate the axle up, it drives the trackbar back into the fuel skid plate. My skidplate is from a late model TJ, except that I strategically added 3/16 reinforcements to it after getting sick of banging the old one back into shape. Still, the interference was nothing a BFH couldn't handle.

Again copying dsmart's TJ, I decided to use the Jeep in-tank pump with a regulator for the fuel supply. I cleaned out the stock aluminum line and bent up another 5/16" line for return. The little black clips are McMaster as well and totally awesome.

Also got the hanger made up for the cat. It's a little tight in there - I know you're supposed to leave room for thermal expansion of the pipe, but there's not a lot of space around the VW cat with the goofy offset inlet/outlet. I might revisit that later.

 

[mcneil]

THE BODY IS BACK ON!

woot.

Really feeling a lot of satisfaction here. That tub had been sitting on a 6-high stack of pallets for 8 months, and until the last few weeks I didn't have any real plan on how I was going to get it back off again. I came up with a way - with two brackets bolted on where the fenders go, and some tabs in the back, I was able to use some tall HF jackposts to get the weight off the pallets. Still had the problem of it being 4' in the air with only 8" of travel in the jackscrews, so I put the chassis up on blocks after I rolled it under.

Once I got the chassis jacked up high enough to take the weight of the body, I took the jackposts out and set it all down. Looks a little redneck, I know, but it's stable.

Once the elation of having the body on faded, I started noticing where my measurments were off. That last-minute 1" shift left of the engine caused some problems with the vac pump. The cardboard in the picture is the temporary protection I put over the pump flange, since I pulled the pump off for this operation (I was afraid it was going to be tight..). Shown here with a little 3-lb persuasion already executed on the firewall. If it''s too tight, I'm going to go with an electric vac pump, but there at least needs to be enough room to get the TB service tool in there.

I'm also going to have to do something for the transmission cooler lines. Those pretty SS lines I bent & brazed hit the side of the transmission tunnel. I'm going to see if I can bang the tunnel back, if not, I have to redo those lines.

At least the tunnel clearance for the t-case worked out - just enough room to get your hand all around the t-case.

 

[mcneil]

TJs look good with no fenders.. just saying..

Brake lines are going together, the SS prebent tube was definitely the way to go. Saved me hours of effort.

Turning my attention to cooling, I went back through this thread to remind myself of what I was planning to do. I also dropped the radiator off at a rebuild shop. Aftermarket radiators are running around $140, and that comes with plastic tanks. Rebuilding my OEM metal tanked radiator is going to be $95.

The old radiator wasn't in terrible shape, but I want to use the transmission cooler ports, and they've been open since it left the factory. Who knows what's in there. That and the rebuild shop is going to change them over to NPT from IF tube.

 

[mcneil]

Radiator's back from rebuild.. turns out 25% of the tubes were plugged up, so good thing I got it redone.

Half the shroud mounting points were stripped or had been drilled out previously, so I cleaned them up and put some 1/4-20 inserts in there.

I pulled out the shroud and it bolted right up.

The stuff on the upper left corner is the mounting points for the coolant tank and power steering reservoir. It's nice being able to reuse those and not have to worry about fabbing or sourcing something.

 

[mcneil]

I started bolting on all the parts I could this weekend. The more stock stuff I can use, the easier it will be. So I put in the bits like radiator catch bottle and the airbox so I can fabricate my ducting & brackets around it.

I took the impact chisel to the body and made some room for the transmission lines. Might have been easier to remake the line, oh well.

Also, there's no way I'm going to be able to make the vac pump fit, so it looks like I'll be making a block off plate and getting an electric pump.

But at least the brake lines came together without any issues.

The jeep airbox hits the EGR valve, so going to have to do something different there.

Now I'm starting to mock up possible intercooler locations. My first thought was to use the Golf intercooler I have, mainly because there's no arguments going to the smog ref with the OEM intercooler. But the smog ref did say that "minor" intercooler mods are acceptable.

I'm going to call them and see if they'll accept a front mount IC. It looks like I could pull that off if I spaced the radiator back enough.