TDI with a 4L65 automatic in a Jeep TJ

[N2TOH]

you might want to try contacting these folks to see where you can get an oil free turbo.

http://www.miti.cc/new_products.html

The flexplate spacer fit up well, at least on the diameters. I think there's too little clearance around the heads, so I'm getting some different fasteners. But overall, I was pleased to see everything fit together snugly with a good pilot.

And for the first time ever, I present to you a AHF/4L65/NP241OR drivetrain.

Too shiny. Need to get it dirty.

Plenty of clearance around the back of the head, though I may rearrange the heater outlet once I see how much space the jeep firewall offers.

Ran into a problem with the starter fit with the oil drain - it doesn't. The starter will clear the turbo support bracket, but the braid of the drain line gets pushed right onto the positive terminal.

Thinking about getting the oil drain line with the flared fitting instead of the banjo. Does anyone know if this will work on this AHF motor?:
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=779&osCsid=7s33h02t45vo4a92a0eeqhg121

 

[Jet 02]

Turbo oil line

Well the drain like is only at crankcase pressure. Probably +/- 7psi. So what many do is go from metric to AN hose fittings and hose.
I bought AN to metric adaptors from www.allensfasteners.com.
I will then also purchase a turbo to AN drain fitting from a vendor on eBay.
If one wanted steel fittings then look for JIC to metric adaptors.
One place to look would be http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/JIC_37_Male_x_Metric_Male_p/9067.htm

On my project (Vanagon) there is a motor mount 1" below the turbo drain. So I get to do some messy plumbing.
Jet 02

 

[ttsupra2503]

This build has me VERY interested considering I have a Cherokee that I wanted to put an 4L65e into. I am gonna replace the Peugeot manual transmission and I was looking into what motor I was gonna put in there.

Do you think the 4L65e will rev low enough with the controller to keep the torque of the diesel? Have you considered using full lock on the converter for highway modes?

Great build so far though... keep it up. I will probably follow up with my own build this summer so I am looking forward to hearing how the 4L65e does behind that motor.

 

[mcneil]

This build has me VERY interested considering I have a Cherokee that I wanted to put an 4L65e into. I am gonna replace the Peugeot manual transmission and I was looking into what motor I was gonna put in there.

Do you think the 4L65e will rev low enough with the controller to keep the torque of the diesel? Have you considered using full lock on the converter for highway modes?

Great build so far though... keep it up. I will probably follow up with my own build this summer so I am looking forward to hearing how the 4L65e does behind that motor.

Thanks! Regarding the 4L65e control, it shouldn't be a problem. If you think about it, our TDIs aren't spinning significantly slower than V-8 truck engines. I haven't bought the controller yet, but the two I'm looking at are US Shifts's Optishift and PCU's TCM-2000 controller. Leaning towards the TCM-2000 now.
http://www.usshift.com/pubs.shtml
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/product/TCM2000/

 

[mcneil]

I put this on hold through January to give the credit card some breathing room.

Solved the flywheel bolt issue: PN#N90929401 works perfect.
Found out I mis-measured the flexplate, so I have to correct the ring gear position by 2.4mm. Ordered up some crankshaft shims (PN#056105303), that fixed it.

Did some no-cost work - cleaning up and swapped in a brake pedal bracket from an auto TJ. No need to have extra pedals flopping around.

Started working on the accelerator pedal assembly. I had a clever idea to take the arm off the VW TPS module and mount the stock jeep pedal, but that arm is pressed on pretty well. May not happen, but it would be nice in the "stock enough to fool a jeep tech" sorta way.

Before I put my one and only TPS unit in a press, has anyone ever pulled the plastic pedal arm off the shaft?

 

[ttsupra2503]

If i was to use this setup I might try and find an Allison 1000 5 speed unit for my build. Same 5 speed that is hooked up to the 6.6 diesel.

 

[mcneil]

Got it reassembled with the spacers. There's a 1.2mm spacer on the crank here:

Bolted up with the new fasteners torqued down

Here's the full assembly, CG is about 3.3" aft of the rear face of the block, which is about what I calculated. There's 3lbs of balancer sitting on the t-case.. well.. balancing.

Here it is going over the front bumper into the engine bay. Looks long, but is actually half a foot shorter than the old drivetrain.

Sitting in place - still about 1-2" forward of its final location

I was aiming for a flat belly and almost got there. Unfortunately there's just not enough clearance with the sheetmetal to clock the NP241OR one position up, so the front output is going to hang a little low. I should be able to run a near flat skid, with a little bubble there.

Next up: Take the body off and weld in the mounts.

 

[jimbote]

Started working on the accelerator pedal assembly. I had a clever idea to take the arm off the VW TPS module and mount the stock jeep pedal, but that arm is pressed on pretty well. May not happen, but it would be nice in the "stock enough to fool a jeep tech" sorta way.
Before I put my one and only TPS unit in a press, has anyone ever pulled the plastic pedal arm off the shaft?

i have .... it's on a splined taper and it's pretty tight .... the female portion of the taper is in the pedal arm and is a steel molded in piece ... i ended up modding the toyota throttle pedal to work with the vw tps

here it is if you're interested
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3279122&postcount=82

 

[mcneil]

i have .... it's on a splined taper and it's pretty tight .... the female portion of the taper is in the pedal arm and is a steel molded in piece ... i ended up modding the toyota throttle pedal to work with the vw tps

here it is if you're interested
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3279122&postcount=82

That looks like it will work. I considered using the VW pedal, but from what I could tell after mocking it up in the jeep, it doesn't look like the ergonomics would be right. The Jeep seating position is a lot higher than the Jetta, so your foot's coming down more than moving forward.

 

[mcneil]

Getting ready for taking the body off, I realize the motor wasn't positioned very well. Needed to go back an inch, and come up a bit.
The old engine mount horns on the frame were in the way of where I wanted the TDI to end up, so I pulled it back out to torch them off.

This let me get the motor back as far as I wanted it. There's still about 2" between the back of the vac pump and the body. I'll probably indent the body with a wood block around the vac pump connection - see chalk marks:

The real clearance problem is between the AC compressor and the driver's side upper control arm. On full compression, the arm tucks up just inside the frame rail, right next to the AC compressor. This is the other reason you want to seat the TDI as far back as possible in a TJ, the suspension and front diff create clearance problems that a YJ doesn't have to worry about.

I still need to take the springs out and cycle the suspension to check clearances, but I'm pretty sure this is going to be ok. Another option is to make an offset upper control arm.. hoping I don't need to do that. I think I'd move the axle forward an inch or two if I did anything.

With everything where I wanted it, I welded up the mounts.

I'm kidding.. that's scrap steel tacked in temporarily. Actual mounts will be in a new crossmember just forward of the bellhousing. That forklift bellhousing had a dozen M10 holes right at the CG, so I might as well use them.

But the next step is to take the body off. Fabbing the new crossmember is going to be a lot easier without the body in the way.

 

[mcneil]

Body is off. Ended up being too heavy for the crane on my busted up asphalt driveway, so I had to resort to more "primitive" methods. As the redneck cousin of Archimedes once said, "Give me a stack of pallets and a come-along and I'll move the Earth".

The full view of the bare drivetrain

Another view of the tight spot between the AC compressor and the suspension. AC hoses may give me some trouble, but should be manageable. If anyone has a leaky AC manifold hose they want to part with, let me know. I'm planning on cutting off the ends and brazing on new hose fittings.

One parting shot, because this may be about all I get done in February.

 

[greengeeker]

As the redneck cousin of Archimedes once said, "Give me a stack of pallets and a come-along and I'll move the Earth".

lol. Thanks for this.

 

[ttsupra2503]

Looking good. Are you going to do a small body lift at all while you have the body off? maybe a 1 inch lift of rubber bushings to get some body squeek down?

I have 3 people now interested in doing this swap in my home town. They want to see how the Auto compares to the 5 speed. Regretfully they all want to use the auto that came in the cherokee (even though I know its bullet proof I like the chevy transmission better)
So your build is inspiring a whole bunch of us Canadian Rednecks

 

[rooney77]

Looking good. Are you going to do a small body lift at all while you have the body off? maybe a 1 inch lift of rubber bushings to get some body squeek down?

I have 3 people now interested in doing this swap in my home town. They want to see how the Auto compares to the 5 speed. Regretfully they all want to use the auto that came in the cherokee (even though I know its bullet proof I like the chevy transmission better)
So your build is inspiring a whole bunch of us Canadian Rednecks

The nice thing about the jeep trans (AW4) is that you can get a pushbutton shifter setup and completely eliminate the computer controls. This is nice because you can get the shift points where they'd need to be to keep the TDI happy. Otherwise I think the AW4 wouldn't keep the motor in it's preferred rpm range. I did a bit of research into autos and was a hair's width from running the AW4 but I decided drivetrain length was more important than not shifting.

edit: Another benefit to the AW4 is that it's the same guts as a Toyota auto. This lets you put a Toyota bellhousing on the Jeep trans, use the acme adapter and still use whatever Jeep transfer case you want.

 

[mcneil]

I had a Daypro 1" BL/mount replacement kit lying around. The old mounts were pretty shot and the new poly mounts raised the body by almost 1.5". The body lift was needed for clearing the NP241OR (it's huge) and tucking it up for a flat belly.

 

[samuraitd]

definitely gonna be following this thread, as soon im going to be starting my mtdi swap on my samurai

 

[mcneil]

Engine mount question: The plan was originally to use the mount points on the bellhousing, but looking at how it sits in the frame I'm having second thoughts.

Can anyone confirm if a B4 TDI driver's side mount will clear around an ALH/AHF oil filter assembly? The part diagram looks like it might be tight.

Part 1, PN is 8D0-199-306-AA. Described as being for EA827 family of engines (AHU, ABA, etc) or EA113 family of engines (ALH, AEG, AWM, etc.).

 

[greengeeker]

None of the parts pictured are from a b4. They have a 3 point mounting system that isn't really going to provide you with a mounting solution.

 

[rooney77]

I see the dipstick as an issue with that mount as well. Trust me on this, I have found absolutely no off-the-shelf side mounts that would work properly. I'm still searching even though I've started fabbing my own. If you do find something, post it up but in the meantime, you may wanna start searching through here for side mounts. There are some good ones you could get ideas from for your specific application.

 

[mcneil]

Once again this forum saves me considerable time & effort. Thanks guys!

 

[rooney77]

Keep an eye on my thread. I'll be building some next week hopefully. They will mimic other's here pretty closely. That should give you a starting point if nothing else. I'm just waiting for my shiny new plasma cutter to come in.

 

[mcneil]

Keep an eye on my thread. I'll be building some next week hopefully. They will mimic other's here pretty closely. That should give you a starting point if nothing else. I'm just waiting for my shiny new plasma cutter to come in.

I've been following over on Pirate - looking good. Just offhand, I can't see a good way to pick up mount points on the right side of the block without relocating something.

There's three M10 holes in the block, center of the frame in the image below. Two are used to tie down the crank position sensor wire, and on my block, they're in sorry shape due to rust.

 

[mcneil]

Still thinking about shifting the mounts forward from just in front of the bellhousing. Back there, I've got 265 lbs of load per mount and only 65lbs on the trans. That's pretty high for the front, and not enough on the trans to keep the mount from feeling too stiff.

Going with a mount like greengeeker made for his ranger I get the load down to 225 lbs on the each front mount, and 145 lbs on the trans mount. That's within 10% of what Jeep designed for the stock mounts. Also there's a bunch of other options I could use for the front mounts, including some hydraulic mounts.

 

[rooney77]

I'm copying the actual plates that greengeeker made as well. From there mine will be different since I'm using the 300D mounts, assuming they aren't too big dimensionally. With those plates and creative "stick outs" (no idea what to call them), or even DOM "stick outs", I shouldn't have to relocate anything. Well I say that. I'll either need to figure out how to clock my turbo outlet or go around it. I haven't really figured out which would be easiest yet.

 

[mcneil]

I know those benz mounts, oh so well. I think I still have one of these aluminum mount brackets in my scrap pile if you want it.

 

[greengeeker]

There's three M10 holes in the block, center of the frame in the image below. Two are used to tie down the crank position sensor wire, and on my block, they're in sorry shape due to rust.

The first 5 threads or so were pretty bad on mine as well. Thankfully these holes are 35-40mm deep so there are plenty of good threads left.

 

[mcneil]

The first 5 threads or so were pretty bad on mine as well. Thankfully these holes are 35-40mm deep so there are plenty of good threads left.

Just started cleaning them out. 30 min with the tap got just the best one cleaned up.. may end up helicoiling the other two.

Also going to need to move the metal cooling line - you can see the yellow cap over it in the pic above. If I'm reading the diagram right, that's coolant return from the reservoir?

 

[greengeeker]

Yup. I just capped mine off.

 

[rooney77]

Just started cleaning them out. 30 min with the tap got just the best one cleaned up.. may end up helicoiling the other two.

Also going to need to move the metal cooling line - you can see the yellow cap over it in the pic above. If I'm reading the diagram right, that's coolant return from the reservoir?

If you look in my thread, I've got a diagram (not sure which one you are using) and I've shown how I intend to alter my cooling system. I'm not sure what radiator you plan on using or if you plan on using the heater core. I am going with an open system and nixing the heater core and the egr cooler so I can get rid of a lot of the tubing. May help ya out some.

edit: It's the 4th pic down in this post: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4086177&postcount=5

 

[mcneil]

If you look in my thread, I've got a diagram (not sure which one you are using) and I've shown how I intend to alter my cooling system. I'm not sure what radiator you plan on using or if you plan on using the heater core. I am going with an open system and nixing the heater core and the egr cooler so I can get rid of a lot of the tubing. May help ya out some.

edit: It's the 4th pic down in this post: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4086177&postcount=5

Saw that too. Long distance, all-weather driveability is a goal of this project, so I'm keeping the heater core and adding an AC system. A Jeep with doors & AC? I know, I know.. might as well go buy a Compass or a Patriot.

Anyway, this is what I have in mind for the cooling schematic. No EGR cooler, but I'd like to keep the coolant glow plugs.