TDI with a 4L65 automatic in a Jeep TJ

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
The last month has been transmission tuning and working on the communication for the gauges.

I was having what I thought to be transmission slip, and near-impossibility of getting out of first gear. To avoid damaging the trans while I diagnosed it, I put the rear axle up on stands and that's where the jeep sat since November. First thing was sort out the VSS issue, which had me locked into 1st gear unless I shifted manually on the laptop.

The problem there was nothing electrical - a burr in the 5/8-18 hole for the VSS meant that while I thought I had bottomed the sensor and backed off 1/4 turn, it was still about an inch away from the tone wheel. I chased the thread and spun that sensor in to the proper location, and it worked. Still facing some noise issues, I disconnected the line pressure sensor from the harness (shared with the VSS). I hooked a multimeter up to the pressure sensor for safety - anything under 50 psi can damage the clutches in less than a minute.

The problem then was that the transmission controller didn't know RPM, so it couldn't measure slip. I was sure that running 3800 rpm at 15 mph, something was wrong. To figure it out, I had the Arduino send the RPM from CAN to serial, then compared with the TunerStudioMS (the TCU tuning software) reported VSS. When I saw that I was consistently "slipping" by a factor of about 2.5, I had my facepalm moment. I had screwed up the input file, and the TCU was applying the 2.62:1 4WD low ratio at all times. Once I changed that variable, it was off and running. I got it tuned to shift nicely up to about 90 mph. It had RPM to go faster, but remember, rear wheels were up on stands. The 10 year old flat-spotted mud terrains are far from balanced; it felt like any faster and I'd shake it off the stands. The engine vibe was pretty mild at that point, but I need to do something about noise insulation.. still too loud.

Also in this whole process, I revised how the communication was setup between the TCU, ECM, and my dashboard Arduino.
Below diagram explains it:



It may seem a little convoluted: the TCU reads a sensor, turns it into a signal to send to the ECM, who then sends it to the Arduino over CAN. The VW EDC15 is expecting a 0-5V signal where Hz= speed in km/hr. In the Jetta/Golf setup, the Instrument cluster would read the VSS, apply conditioning and scaling, then send to the ECM. I know the 0-5V signal works because I can do it bit banging an Arduino. I would have the Arduino read the speedo signal from the Mshift, but the ECM needs road speed to make all the OBDII features work. If I tried to send speed over the CAN bus from the Arduino, the ECM would just ignore it.
 

mcneil

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 4dr, 2001 Jetta TDI, Jeep TDI project
A bunch of cleanup happened - I sorted the wiring using about every type of cable tie and clip I had. I was trying to keep it neat as I ran it but the last few months of troubleshooting TCM issues left a mess.

Before/After shots



Once cleaned up, I had all the communcations between modules working. The trans controller told the engine computer vehicle speed, the engine told the Arduino the RPM, and the Arduino told the trans controller. Running through the gears the trans had almost no slip, so I took it out for a drive.

This is where I floored it for the first time. And it was awesome. Nothing overly impressive but it gets up and goes about as well as any 110hp ALH should. It feels a little faster than the Jeep 2.5L 4-cyl, but I need more road to get a zero-60 time.

The transmission behaves great. I have it set to shift to second about 8mph (1150 RPM) at zero load. The 2-3 shift comes at 25 mph (1900 rpm), and it will go to 4th/OD at 38 mph (1800 RPM). At full load, it winds out to 4000 RPM before shifting. The shifts are a little soft right now, I'm going to try a firmer tune. The Megashift has enough tuning parameters to dial it in any way I want.



Tdisyncro was asking about the torque converter and drag issues - none so far. Transition between on/off accel is smooth, no hiccups.
 

Wally

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Location
The Springs, CO
TDI
98 NB, 96 and 97 B4Vs, & 03 A4V
Nice John!
I'm stoked for you you.
Unfortunately, all my car effort has been going to a non-stop torrent of maintenance (altho a blown turbo did get a bigger one for replacement), so not much "fun" on this side.

So, now that it's roadable, time to bring it over here...Buuuut, I don't think the beetle will be able to follow when you leave the pavement.
 

deejaaa

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Location
Baytown, Texas
TDI
FOR SALE, 2002 Jetta GLS, 5 speed
you are doing some good work.
I wish you were closer to me. I'm having probs with boost reading -14.65 and IAT as 410f. replaced the MAP sensor but have been told to trace wiring to ECM. haven't had enough time to get to it yet. I just know you have the smarts to figure it out.
 

mtngk

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Location
Western Colorado
TDI
2001 2dr ALH and the 2000 Jeep TDI-TJ
Time to dig this thread up! I adopted the TDI-TJ from John earlier this year and have been working on completing a few things to get it roadworthy. John has been busy with moving, family and running a business, so it's understandable that he hasn't had time for the TDI-TJ.

Here's a shot of the engine bay as I received it.

There's a few issues that need addressing:
  • Fuel system (TJ fuel pump died and was never designed for the TDI)
  • Speed sensor noise resulting in random and inappropriate downshifts to 1st/2nd
  • Wiring cleanup.
    • There's a lot of wiring too close to the turbo/exhaust.
    • Radiator fan control.
  • Registration and license plates.
  • Gauges
I spent a lot of the winter slowly cleaning up the wiring and going though all of John's documentation. I also got it registered and insured (thankfully not in California) and have slowly been sorting out the speed sensor issue. I replaced the speed sensor and TCU with a microsquirt TCU, just to remove some variables and get newer software than what the megashift used. So far, this seems to be successful and I've been driving around tuning the transmission shift curves. Lockup still isn't working properly, but it's drivable.

Last weekend I installed a simple radiator fan controller, and am using a raspberry pi with a CAN bus + serial shield for digital gauges. That just leave the fuel system as the last major item preventing this from being fully road worthy.

Shift curves:


The digital gauges using tunerstudio. 4th gear and ~50 mph cruising is really big deal!


This is a Ford Powerstroke sending unit modified to fit in the TJ fuel tank. It doesn't have the sump basket design of the TDI or TJ, but that might get added. The TJ did not use a return system, so this was the closest I could find. The rest of the plumbing will take a bit longer to complete.
 
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mtngk

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Location
Western Colorado
TDI
2001 2dr ALH and the 2000 Jeep TDI-TJ


Major milestone achieved. After replumbing the fuel system and installing the ford sending unit, the TDI-TJ was able to drive to the gas station under it's own power for the first time!

 
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