TDI vs Hybrid

[F8L]

I must have misread this thread topid. I didn't realize the OP was looking to purchase a bus.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

We will heavily consider trading our 2010 Jetta TDI on the 2013 Jetta Hybrid when its available this fall. My wife drives primarily stop and go city and she does nothing but short 5 mile round trips on the weekends. A hybrid is perfect for those conditions.

It's a gas/elec hybrid, not diesel/elec (i assume you knew that, but i didn't, and had to look)

Teach your wife to pulse & glide. I can get upper-40s in the city, if the traffic lights aren't purposely dis-synced to make everyone hit every red light.

 

[turbomax1998]

WOW, what a real entertainment is to read this thread
All the children throwing the toys out of the pram and crying out...

What was this thread about in the first place???

Guys if you want to argue start your own thread, have some respect to the OP.
You are trying to convince the other party that you are "the man" however you are arrogant and disrespectful to the OP.
Grow up.

Ha, ha......... Thanks everybody for the good info and the drama. I am a member of a sports car forum that is possibly the most brutal forum on this Earth.

I forgot to sign in for a little over a week and come back to 7 pages of responses!

This was fun and I'd personally like to see everybody go at it more

I think we will go for the Jetta wagon with a manual when we get back!

 

[steffen707]

It's a gas/elec hybrid, not diesel/elec (i assume you knew that, but i didn't, and had to look)

Teach your wife to pulse & glide. I can get upper-40s in the city, if the traffic lights aren't purposely dis-synced to make everyone hit every red light.

awww, i was hoping it was diesel/elec hybrid.

 

[steffen707]

I am a member of a sports car forum that is possibly the most brutal forum on this Earth.

Honda-tech? Good luck getting a straight answer without a bunch of 14 year old's calling you a newb and saying you should throw a K series with t67 turbo in your ride.

 

[steffen707]

I think we will go for the Jetta wagon with a manual when we get back!

Excellent choice! I just got a 01 Jetta TDI Sedan, and after my fiance said she doesn't want a prius now because her friends with kids say there isn't enough room for road trips I realized I should have gotten the prius for around town stuff, and a TDI WAGON for highway trips in case we need to take the dog and our future kids with us.

 

[darrelld]

It's a gas/elec hybrid, not diesel/elec (i assume you knew that, but i didn't, and had to look)

Teach your wife to pulse & glide. I can get upper-40s in the city, if the traffic lights aren't purposely dis-synced to make everyone hit every red light.

Yes I knew is was gas/electric, first application of the 1.4 turbo and 7-speed DSG in the US market.

Wife has the pulse down just not the glide when driving the TDI, you can see by my Fuelly sig what mileage she gets.

 

[F8L]

Excellent choice! I just got a 01 Jetta TDI Sedan, and after my fiance said she doesn't want a prius now because her friends with kids say there isn't enough room for road trips I realized I should have gotten the prius for around town stuff, and a TDI WAGON for highway trips in case we need to take the dog and our future kids with us.

The Prius that is most comparable to the Jetta Wagon is the new Prius v (wagon). It is almost exactly the same size as a Ford Escape SUV (67cu.ft. With seats folded) and is rated similarly to the TDi Jetta Sportwagon with an EPA rating of 44/42 city/highway yet like the Jetta, many folks average higher than that while some get less. It's not my cup of tea appearance wise and although I do not like the look of the TDi Sportwagon, I think it looks better than the v.

 

[steffen707]

The Prius that is most comparable to the Jetta Wagon is the new Prius v (wagon). It is almost exactly the same size as a Ford Escape SUV (67cu.ft. With seats folded) and is rated similarly to the TDi Jetta Sportwagon with an EPA rating of 44/42 city/highway yet like the Jetta, many folks average higher than that while some get less. It's not my cup of tea appearance wise and although I do not like the look of the TDi Sportwagon, I think it looks better than the v.

Well i didn't know all that, might have to check it out.

 

[F8L]

Well i didn't know all that, might have to check it out.

Aye, there are essentially 3 Prii now available.

Small: Prius c (compact)
Regular: Prius Liftback
Largerius v (wagon)

Lots of cool options out there in the diesel and hybrid world.

 

[nicklockard]

Hello all, I have had a 2001 and then a 1998 Beetle TDI. I came on here a couple of times at most to ask about the possibility of swapping the 1998 engine back into the 2001 after the timing belt let loose on the 2001 and the car sitting for a year while I just picked up a 1998 Beetle that then got totalled when some girl spun out on the highway in front of me in New Mexico...

Anyway, the 1998 engine dropped into the 2001 no problem and runs fine!

I am now looking for a family car that can fit myself, wife, a 2-year old and a new born as well as a maniac 45 lb Dalmatian. The catch here is the dog has always sat on my lap or on the dash board in the beetle. Understandably, my wife wife does not want the dog sitting in my lap or on the dashboard while I drive the family car with the 2 children.

Here is where this post is applicable to the TDI fuel economy thread:I was thinking about a TDI Jetta wagon with manual transmission to get the job done. My wife asked about the Prius and Honda Civic hybrid for super efficient fuel mileage. I remember reading about a test back in the day where they drove TDI's and hybrids and the TDI's got better overall mileage for long trips combined with some in town driving. I have read that Prius' and the Hondas do not get the advertised fuel mileage. I also have read some B.S. EPA fuel economy figures for TDI's as well based on what I experienced with my beetles. When I first bought the 2001 and had my first Dalmatian girl ride shotgun with me all day every day for my sales job, the car was started @ 8:30-9:00 am every day and ran continuously with the AC on in the summer for my girl so she was comfortable until 8-9pm. Even driving 80-90 MPH on the highway and not trying to get super good fuel economy, I still got 35 MPG. I got close to 50 on the highway if I kept my foot out of it. Driving frugally, I got about 42-43 during city driving with a little highway.So my question is the following: does anybody have any real world experience how the 2000-2003 TDI's stack up to the hybrids MPG-wise for more highway than city driving? Also does anybody here know if the Jetta wagons can fit a pair of baby seats with proper clearances with he seats in front? My 2 year old will most likely be able to face foreward which is easier to clear the back of the seat. Also, how much leg room is there in the back seat if I could actually get the dog to sit on the floor? I do not think there is a chance in hell I can get her to stay in the very back of the wagon, nor do I think I would want her so far back there. I know these questions are not fuel mileage related, but I also want to know if anybody here knows how the back seat space compares on the Jetta wagon vs the hybrids. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

The Edmunds.com TCO calculator in my signature line is a great place to start, along with test drives and getting your wife's opinion. The TCO calculator is the fairest, least emotional and most objective way to get a feel for operating expenses. Here on the club, you'll find that some are rabidly passionate to the point of complete emotional argumentation devoid of logic. Some will twist facts to bash hybrid's battery technology in silly ways. Some will defend diesel torque passionately (hard to argue...there IS a special feel to driving a diesel that's hard to get your hands on) and some will just stretch and tweak numbers a bit in order to confuse Fuel Economy (FE) with Miles-Per-Gallon (MPG), which are most definitely NOT one and the same.

Best of luck to you and your family.

 

[slamhouse]

Honda-tech? Good luck getting a straight answer without a bunch of 14 year old's calling you a newb and saying you should throw a K series with t67 turbo in your ride.

Notice he stated "Sports car forum". Honda-Tech does not fit that category

 

[F8L]

The Edmunds.com TCO calculator in my signature line is a great place to start, along with test drives and getting your wife's opinion. The TCO calculator is the fairest, least emotional and most objective way to get a feel for operating expenses. Here on the club, you'll find that some are rabidly passionate to the point of complete emotional argumentation devoid of logic. Some will twist facts to bash hybrid's battery technology in silly ways. Some will defend diesel torque passionately (hard to argue...there IS a special feel to driving a diesel that's hard to get your hands on) and some will just stretch and tweak numbers a bit in order to confuse Fuel Economy (FE) with Miles-Per-Gallon (MPG), which are most definitely NOT one and the same.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Great post!

 

[tdi90hp]

prius= NO style
prius= NO stick
prius=NO torque
prius=NO fun
prius=NO feeling of being in a chiseled well built german little rocket
prius=NO good seats
prius=NO world class suspension
prius=NO nice ride (rode in a 100k prius in Paris...HORRIBLE)
prius=NO premium feel
prius=NO top notch service @ a dealer that loves cars !
prius=NO smell of diesel
prius=NO relaxed cruising at 100 MPH
prius=NO want this POS in my driveway. Sorry Prius owners

 

[bvencil]

Aye, there are essentially 3 Prii now available.
Small: Prius c (compact)
Regular: Prius Liftback
Largerius v (wagon)
Lots of cool options out there in the diesel and hybrid world.

Wait a minute! I'm confused. Looks like there are 4!

http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/trims-prices.html

Enlighten me please!

 

[bvencil]

The Edmunds.com TCO calculator in my signature line is a great place to start, along with test drives and getting your wife's opinion. The TCO calculator is the fairest, least emotional and most objective way to get a feel for operating expenses. Here on the club, you'll find that some are rabidly passionate to the point of complete emotional argumentation devoid of logic. Some will twist facts to bash hybrid's battery technology in silly ways. Some will defend diesel torque passionately (hard to argue...there IS a special feel to driving a diesel that's hard to get your hands on) and some will just stretch and tweak numbers a bit in order to confuse Fuel Economy (FE) with Miles-Per-Gallon (MPG), which are most definitely NOT one and the same.
Best of luck to you and your family.

I'm not disagreeing that the TCO provides valuable information, however, I can say that the insurance costs are wildly inaccurate. for my zip code it estimates $1500 per year. My cost is actually $550 per year with full coverage, towing, etc. That's pretty significant.

 

[bvencil]

prius= NO style
prius= NO stick
prius=NO torque
prius=NO fun
prius=NO feeling of being in a chiseled well built german little rocket
prius=NO good seats
prius=NO world class suspension
prius=NO nice ride (rode in a 100k prius in Paris...HORRIBLE)
prius=NO premium feel
prius=NO top notch service @ a dealer that loves cars !
prius=NO smell of diesel
prius=NO relaxed cruising at 100 MPH
prius=NO want this POS in my driveway. Sorry Prius owners

I totally love my JSW, and fully expect that I would prefer it over a Prius, but to me, your arguments seem specious at best. The majority of the 13 items are opinion, IMHO

 

[Rockwater]

Wait a minute! I'm confused. Looks like there are 4!

http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/trims-prices.html

Enlighten me please!

Those are different trim levels for the liftback Prius.

 

[darrelld]

prius= NO style
prius= NO stick
prius=NO torque
prius=NO fun
prius=NO feeling of being in a chiseled well built german little rocket
prius=NO good seats
prius=NO world class suspension
prius=NO nice ride (rode in a 100k prius in Paris...HORRIBLE)
prius=NO premium feel
prius=NO top notch service @ a dealer that loves cars !
prius=NO smell of diesel
prius=NO relaxed cruising at 100 MPH
prius=NO want this POS in my driveway. Sorry Prius owners

Most of these issues are addressed with the Lexus version of the Prius (CT200H). It looks like a Golf knockoff but the handling is much better. Still no torque though.

If you want a Hybrid with torque test drive a Chevy Volt, there is 270lbs from 0rpm but the interior is cramped and the handling is not as good as even the cheapest TDI.

 

[F8L]

Those are different trim levels for the liftback Prius.

Aye, Bill. Rockwater covered it. As with a lot of vehicles these days there are pre-packaged trim levels. All of the models I listed generally come in 4 real trim levels and 1 (one) that is dedicated to fleet service. So the Liftback and Prius v can only be purchased in trim levels Two through Five. A lot of people opt for a Five because of the sweet LED headlights and 17" wheels which help handling substantially but it's no Golf or Jetta!

 

[bvencil]

Aye, Bill. Rockwater covered it. As with a lot of vehicles these days there are pre-packaged trim levels. All of the models I listed generally come in 4 real trim levels and 1 (one) that is dedicated to fleet service. So the Liftback and Prius v can only be purchased in trim levels Two through Five. A lot of people opt for a Five because of the sweet LED headlights and 17" wheels which help handling substantially but it's no Golf or Jetta!

Ag. Sorry. Was looking at the wrong place on the Toyota site. here's where I should have looked:

http://www.toyota.com/modelselector/index.html

 

[Rockwater]

Aye, Bill. Rockwater covered it. As with a lot of vehicles these days there are pre-packaged trim levels. All of the models I listed generally come in 4 real trim levels and 1 (one) that is dedicated to fleet service. So the Liftback and Prius v can only be purchased in trim levels Two through Five. A lot of people opt for a Five because of the sweet LED headlights and 17" wheels which help handling substantially but it's no Golf or Jetta!

Your Prius is so new that you've only filled up once? How is the sunroof? Always wondered if it was worth it.

 

[nicklockard]

I'm not disagreeing that the TCO provides valuable information, however, I can say that the insurance costs are wildly inaccurate. for my zip code it estimates $1500 per year. My cost is actually $550 per year with full coverage, towing, etc. That's pretty significant.

Interesting. You're getting insanely cheap insurance for full coverage. Best I've ever done is $880 a year with comp/collision/best liabilities. Are you married to a State Farm agent or something?? LOL.

At any rate, it's an apples-apples comparison even if it gets insurance wrong, so it's still valid for comparing relative operating costs of one car to another in the same area.

 

[bvencil]

Interesting. You're getting insanely cheap insurance for full coverage. Best I've ever done is $880 a year with comp/collision/best liabilities. Are you married to a State Farm agent or something?? LOL.

At any rate, it's an apples-apples comparison even if it gets insurance wrong, so it's still valid for comparing relative operating costs of one car to another in the same area.

Now that I think of it, I am probably not being fair in comparing because I have a multi vehicle policy bundled with my home owners insurance. It is State Farm though!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[tdi90hp]

Most of these issues are addressed with the Lexus version of the Prius (CT200H). It looks like a Golf knockoff but the handling is much better. Still no torque though.

If you want a Hybrid with torque test drive a Chevy Volt, there is 270lbs from 0rpm but the interior is cramped and the handling is not as good as even the cheapest TDI.

my neighbor across the street JUST bought one....automatic and gutless....nice interior ....decent handling....
NO interest for me....just an average car...does not feel special like a highline Golf....IMHO

 

[F8L]

Your Prius is so new that you've only filled up once? How is the sunroof? Always wondered if it was worth it.

Nah. I have over 12,000 miles on it after buying in March. I have been doing a lot of testing for various things like tires, wheels, A/C impact to mpg, speed testing, driving mode testing, etc. so I added a new Fuelly to reflect my normal driving situations and not testing. I think the old Fuelly was at 50mpg+-. It is definitely more efficient than my old 2005 but after 158,000 trouble free miles it was time to upgrade to something nicer.

The solar panel roof is quite nice if you live in hotter areas or pretty much anywhere that gets above 80F. It keeps the interior remarkably cooler than without it and thus you don't have to use the A/C quite so much. The car is more comfortable upon entering it even when it is 107F outside (our max temp this year so far). It is kind of a set it and forget it deal. Just push the button once and whenever the inside temp is above your desired setting, the solar powered fan will turn on and circulate the hot air outside of the car while drawing in relatively cooler outside air. The black roof also looks pretty cool on the white body but that is subjective. It is a $1,500 upgrade and comes with the remote A/C control so you can run the A/C to pre-cool the car for a few minutes before you get inside. Works for those who park outside their house or work very close to their parking spots. I feel it was worth the price. I get a lot of comments once people see it is a solar panel and sunroof.

 

[FistLaw]

my neighbor across the street JUST bought one....automatic and gutless....nice interior ....decent handling....
NO interest for me....just an average car...does not feel special like a highline Golf....IMHO

I drive Dallas to Houston every week and I see a bunch of TDIs and Prius'. I average around 45mpg southbound and 49.9 northbound. If mileage is all you want then Hybrids are better in the city, and TDIs are unmatched on freeway driving. If you want a 'drivers car' there's zero comparison.

My personal favorite is coming up behind a Prius in the left lane doing 70 mph and giving them the highbeam 'move over'. Makes me smile.

 

[F8L]

I drive Dallas to Houston every week and I see a bunch of TDIs and Prius'. I average around 45mpg southbound and 49.9 northbound. If mileage is all you want then Hybrids are better in the city, and TDIs are unmatched on freeway driving. If you want a 'drivers car' there's zero comparison.

My personal favorite is coming up behind a Prius in the left lane doing 70 mph and giving them the highbeam 'move over'. Makes me smile.

This is a terrible misconception. Just because the TDis do well on the freeway does not in any way make them superior to a good hybrid on freeway mpg. The fact is something like the Prius excels on the highway AND urban environments which is why the combined EPA rating is so much higher than the TDi. At 60mph the average GenIII Prius gets high 50s or low 60s. At 70mph 50-55mpg is still pretty easy to achieve. At 80+mph you can expect mpg to finally drop into the 40s.

I'm sorry but your opinion is not based on facts.

If what you want is a "drivers car" then you are better off skipping both the TDi and hybrid and instead buy something that is actually fast.....

 

[DPM]

"special like a highline Golf"

jeez Louise. I know this is a VW site, but you gotta get out more...

 

[NorthernVdub]

There are some fast electric/hybrid sports cars but the only down side is most of them have such a short range. I would mind having the BMW hybrid concept or Porsches one . I'll probably stick to my diesel for a while because I can do most of the work still.