TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions
- Thread starter SUNRG
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heidelberger75
Well-known member
Hey guys. Thanks for the replies.
The car was a rental for the first 16k km so I doubt any non-standard fuel was used. In Germany diesel can be mixed with up to 7% biodiesel at the pump. I use whichever station is cheapest and i don't add any additives.
Regarding fuel efficiency, you can see my fuelly data in the signature. It's not THAT fuel efficient. It's hard to compare what it might get in the US. Roads and driving speeds are different in Germany.
They added 4.3 liters and the oil is the standard castrol long life 507. I'd be surprised if its different that what's avail in the us or Ireland but I'm no expert.
Cheers!
The car was a rental for the first 16k km so I doubt any non-standard fuel was used. In Germany diesel can be mixed with up to 7% biodiesel at the pump. I use whichever station is cheapest and i don't add any additives.
Regarding fuel efficiency, you can see my fuelly data in the signature. It's not THAT fuel efficient. It's hard to compare what it might get in the US. Roads and driving speeds are different in Germany.
They added 4.3 liters and the oil is the standard castrol long life 507. I'd be surprised if its different that what's avail in the us or Ireland but I'm no expert.
Cheers!
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The Castrol that the Dealers over in Germany use is different I think:
http://moto-oil.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=97
Before that they where using Castrol SLX Professional LL3, which is what the dealers use in the US today.
The Castrol Edge Professional Longlife III has a green color to it, here is a picture I took while adding a "cup" to top it of:
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/motoroel-hat-eine-gruene-faerbung-t4213847.html#post35407703
Btw, is there anywhere I should stop by while visiting in California? I mean TDI related
http://moto-oil.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=97
Before that they where using Castrol SLX Professional LL3, which is what the dealers use in the US today.
The Castrol Edge Professional Longlife III has a green color to it, here is a picture I took while adding a "cup" to top it of:
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/motoroel-hat-eine-gruene-faerbung-t4213847.html#post35407703
Btw, is there anywhere I should stop by while visiting in California? I mean TDI related
bernie165
Vendor , w/Business number
I am so sorry to bother but I cannot get the black stone
Lab report to post as an image like everyone else has.
I've tried everything (including search).
Would any one mind giving me the dummy version
So I can post my results like everyone else - my report is
Pretty bad, I am looking forward to your expertise guys.
Thank you !!!!
Lab report to post as an image like everyone else has.
I've tried everything (including search).
Would any one mind giving me the dummy version
So I can post my results like everyone else - my report is
Pretty bad, I am looking forward to your expertise guys.
Thank you !!!!
heidelberger75
Well-known member
Hi bernie, here is how I do it...
Signup for a free dropbox account and install it on your computer. It will look like any other folder but the data is actually saved in the "cloud". Move or copy/paste your scanned oil report to the "Public" folder in dropbox. Once it is there, right-click on the file, go to Dropbox, then copy the link.
Once you've copied the link click the "insert image" button when replying on the thread and paste the link into the box.
Preview the post and you should see your document.
bernie165
Vendor , w/Business number
Okay - wow for some reason the attachment function and I are fighting but I got it to work!!! Thank you fellow members for the assistance and tips.
I attached the latest UOA which has all three samples I have collected. I have always followed this thread and hold a lot of weight in oil analysis. I originally did not pull samples based on the expertise in this thread and all of the existing data until I had the hydrolock from the frozen intercooler. Since then, I have collected samples as insurance "just in case." As you can see, my samples are terrible (I think according to my limited knowledge). I would love any insight or tips as I feel like I am driving a time bomb based on the sample results. If nothing else, it appears I can not go 10K oil changes for for some reason. The background: I do all my own maintenance, drain and pull sample through oil pan drain after the oil runs for a minute (the middle oil to speak), use factory oil and a Hengst filter. I have severe OCD and clean everything so foreign matter is not an issue. Straight diesel at the same two stations and Stanadyne Performance Formula every tank. I commute the same trip 5 times a week - 28 miles each way consisting of 10 miles on 45 mph with traffic and lights, followed by 18 miles of highway at 70-75 mph. Very few 'around town' trips. The way home is opposite with the freeway driving first. I let it run for approx two minutes to warm and allow a minute or two cool down. In winter if its really cold, I let it idle longer (5-6) with occasional 10 minute (for my comfort. I wouldn't say I baby it, but I am on the easier side and do not routinly flog it. It runs great, mileage is great. If I reach my destination and it's in the midst of a regen, I usually will run around the block at higher RPMS's to finish it out as I do not like to shut it down at elevated idle in the middle of a regen. Speaking of which, I am at a loss as to why the fuel is so high since it was not in the midst of a regen when I changed the oil. Last thing which really scares me and I have told Blackstone this but they never note it - I run a Dimple magentic drain plug so the iron number is minus whats hanging on the magnet!! Thank you in advance - sorry this is long but wanted to get the info out. Do I get rid of this car ??? or am I worrying about a lot of nothing.
I attached the latest UOA which has all three samples I have collected. I have always followed this thread and hold a lot of weight in oil analysis. I originally did not pull samples based on the expertise in this thread and all of the existing data until I had the hydrolock from the frozen intercooler. Since then, I have collected samples as insurance "just in case." As you can see, my samples are terrible (I think according to my limited knowledge). I would love any insight or tips as I feel like I am driving a time bomb based on the sample results. If nothing else, it appears I can not go 10K oil changes for for some reason. The background: I do all my own maintenance, drain and pull sample through oil pan drain after the oil runs for a minute (the middle oil to speak), use factory oil and a Hengst filter. I have severe OCD and clean everything so foreign matter is not an issue. Straight diesel at the same two stations and Stanadyne Performance Formula every tank. I commute the same trip 5 times a week - 28 miles each way consisting of 10 miles on 45 mph with traffic and lights, followed by 18 miles of highway at 70-75 mph. Very few 'around town' trips. The way home is opposite with the freeway driving first. I let it run for approx two minutes to warm and allow a minute or two cool down. In winter if its really cold, I let it idle longer (5-6) with occasional 10 minute (for my comfort
. I wouldn't say I baby it, but I am on the easier side and do not routinly flog it. It runs great, mileage is great. If I reach my destination and it's in the midst of a regen, I usually will run around the block at higher RPMS's to finish it out as I do not like to shut it down at elevated idle in the middle of a regen. Speaking of which, I am at a loss as to why the fuel is so high since it was not in the midst of a regen when I changed the oil. Last thing which really scares me and I have told Blackstone this but they never note it - I run a Dimple magentic drain plug so the iron number is minus whats hanging on the magnet!! Thank you in advance - sorry this is long but wanted to get the info out. Do I get rid of this car ??? or am I worrying about a lot of nothing.
Ski in NC
Top Post Dawg
Bernie- I would suggest taking the next sample through the dipstick tube and only let the tube draw from the top of the oil sump level. When capturing through a drain stream, you will get more gunk. Remember: we are talking about PPM and small amounts of anything really show up.
And your numbers do not look that bad to me. For my work I review hundreds of diesel lube samples in a year, and I know what BAD looks like!!
Worry less..
And your numbers do not look that bad to me. For my work I review hundreds of diesel lube samples in a year, and I know what BAD looks like!!
Worry less..
Bernie,
Your wear rates are actually trending down, although they're still a bit elevated for the number of miles. Due to your operating conditions you are depleting the oil additives fairly quickly. There are two things I'd recommend:
1) drive the vehicle more aggressively once it's warmed up - this will hasten the break in process.
2) shorten the service interval to 7500 miles. This basically means one additional oil/filter change every 30,000 miles. Ideally you want to have some TBN reserve when the oil is changed, which will mitigate the effects of chemical/corrosive wear.
There is nothing obviously wrong with this engine.
TS
Your wear rates are actually trending down, although they're still a bit elevated for the number of miles. Due to your operating conditions you are depleting the oil additives fairly quickly. There are two things I'd recommend:
1) drive the vehicle more aggressively once it's warmed up - this will hasten the break in process.
2) shorten the service interval to 7500 miles. This basically means one additional oil/filter change every 30,000 miles. Ideally you want to have some TBN reserve when the oil is changed, which will mitigate the effects of chemical/corrosive wear.
There is nothing obviously wrong with this engine.
TS
heidelberger75
Well-known member
I agree. It might be counter intuitive but I would drive it a lot harder for the next 7500 miles. Also, cut out the long idling periods. The diesel takes forever to heat up as is, just startup and drive.Good luck!
The newer TDI's that are babied seem to take forever to break in. Once you drain the factory fill oil and get the bulk of the debris out of the sump I see no problem with driving it hard. It actually seems to help the wear pattern settle down sooner....
bernie165
Vendor , w/Business number
You guys never disappoint - thank you for the information. I really feel like I 'work' it to speak but clearly my oil sample states otherwise and I need to do more as it appears I am still breaking in if I understand correctly. I am glad to hear that’s it verse a bent rod from the hydro lock which I would think would make the oil much worse but I guess I really don't know as I have not seen an UOA with that as a known factor. Any thoughts on such a low TBN - I have not seen anyone else that low (which maybe I just missed it through all the pages) for the equivalent mileage interval. TS I know you stated my driving must be depleting the additives quicker which is a reasonable deduction; however I do not feel I am driving any different than many others here. Would you be able to specify what it is that would cause accelerated depletion - I ask so I can change bad habits or whatever it is I am doing. Thanks again for the help and I'll take the FOR SALE sign off
Bernie,
Since you live in a cold climate and do a fair amount of stop and go driving I'd say the engine isn't getting hot enough. Hence you're seeing more contamination of the crankcase oil. I'm not sure there is an easy fix except retiring to a warm climate. You could try adding a block heater - I don't know how difficult that is, but it would certainly help, especially if the car is parked outside at your home.
Tell me more about what you are calling hydro lock?
TS
Since you live in a cold climate and do a fair amount of stop and go driving I'd say the engine isn't getting hot enough. Hence you're seeing more contamination of the crankcase oil. I'm not sure there is an easy fix except retiring to a warm climate. You could try adding a block heater - I don't know how difficult that is, but it would certainly help, especially if the car is parked outside at your home.
Tell me more about what you are calling hydro lock?
TS
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bernie165
Vendor , w/Business number
TS -
the majority of my drives are to and from work which is 27-29 miles each way. It is a mix of 60% highway and 40% regular roads. I do very little 'in town' driving and even still most times those trips are 10 miles each way or so.
As for the hydro lock - I experienced the intercooler issue as it is referred to hear. Very long story condensed - I went to start my vehicle and immediately after the engine fired (very few revolutions but it was turning under its own power and starter disengaged), it abruptly stopped. Subsequent attempts to restart did not work - the starter would engage and the engine would turn slightly before stopping. I had my suspicions but I had to leave it for the night as I was on my way to work. The following day, I first barred the engine over (by hand via crank pulley bolt) and it turned freely. I then pulled the intercooler outlet hose and drained about 8-12 ounces of clear water. I started it and it ran fine. After a drive I opened the oil fill cap and found raw water droplets.
My conclusion - I sucked a slug of water and the first receiving cylinder filled with water and locked the motor thereby forcing it to stall and not allowing a restart. By letting it sit, the water leaked past the rings into the sump which is why the following day it started right up. As opposed to draining the oil I just drove it and my commutes burned the water off - as evidenced because the oil fill cap cleared up a week later and my first UOA which is the one I did after this incident (when the oil change was due - the hydro lock occurred about midway in the oil change but I did not change it early. I was afraid the early-oil-change-police would arrest me. Thank you in advance on your thoughts/insight - I am still not convinced I have no damage from the hydro lock and/or sitting water in my cylinder causing rust or wash down and/or driving with a cylinder's worth of water mixed with the oil for a period of time until it evaporated off. Thats why I am putting a lot of weight in oil analysis as opposed to physically opening the motor up.
the majority of my drives are to and from work which is 27-29 miles each way. It is a mix of 60% highway and 40% regular roads. I do very little 'in town' driving and even still most times those trips are 10 miles each way or so.
As for the hydro lock - I experienced the intercooler issue as it is referred to hear. Very long story condensed - I went to start my vehicle and immediately after the engine fired (very few revolutions but it was turning under its own power and starter disengaged), it abruptly stopped. Subsequent attempts to restart did not work - the starter would engage and the engine would turn slightly before stopping. I had my suspicions but I had to leave it for the night as I was on my way to work. The following day, I first barred the engine over (by hand via crank pulley bolt) and it turned freely. I then pulled the intercooler outlet hose and drained about 8-12 ounces of clear water. I started it and it ran fine. After a drive I opened the oil fill cap and found raw water droplets.
My conclusion - I sucked a slug of water and the first receiving cylinder filled with water and locked the motor thereby forcing it to stall and not allowing a restart. By letting it sit, the water leaked past the rings into the sump which is why the following day it started right up. As opposed to draining the oil I just drove it and my commutes burned the water off - as evidenced because the oil fill cap cleared up a week later and my first UOA which is the one I did after this incident (when the oil change was due - the hydro lock occurred about midway in the oil change but I did not change it early. I was afraid the early-oil-change-police would arrest me
. Thank you in advance on your thoughts/insight - I am still not convinced I have no damage from the hydro lock and/or sitting water in my cylinder causing rust or wash down and/or driving with a cylinder's worth of water mixed with the oil for a period of time until it evaporated off. Thats why I am putting a lot of weight in oil analysis as opposed to physically opening the motor up. 
Looking at this post I tell you his cSt is very low for LL01 oil it should be above 13 but he got 9.86 after 10000 miles so there is no protection for this engines where clearances were designed for cSt above 13.
Here is my used oil analysis of factory fill from my 2010 Jetta TDI. I hope this helps or maybe gives a confirmation to someone to compare with.
I'm in there road to do oil changes every 5,000 or 10,000 miles. I have 2012 Passat SEL TDi with almost 5,000 miles. I had BMW and replaced oils every 7,000 miles most since its bs about 15,000 miles. So tell me what to do? Is it worth? I thought it could be good since its turbo and all gaskets will have longer life since less outgasing on newer oil.
'Fly,
This is a new engine so it's natural to see more fuel dilution until the piston rings finish seating. He may also be using a biodiesel blend which can lead to fuel dilution under certain operating conditions. The 2% fuel is why this sample has thinned out, but it's still "in grade". I think this fuel dilution will drop with more miles on this engine.
The wear pattern and amount of debris is perfectly normal for the factory fill oil. The thought is that the potassium ("K"), is welding flux from a component on the engine. You'll find that the trace of potassium dissipates over time, but it can take 50,000 miles for it to completely go away.
I've seen very few (< 5%), newer TDI's where I'd recommend a service interval shorter than 10,000 miles, based on oil analysis results. This isn't one of them....
TS
This is a new engine so it's natural to see more fuel dilution until the piston rings finish seating. He may also be using a biodiesel blend which can lead to fuel dilution under certain operating conditions. The 2% fuel is why this sample has thinned out, but it's still "in grade". I think this fuel dilution will drop with more miles on this engine.
The wear pattern and amount of debris is perfectly normal for the factory fill oil. The thought is that the potassium ("K"), is welding flux from a component on the engine. You'll find that the trace of potassium dissipates over time, but it can take 50,000 miles for it to completely go away.
I've seen very few (< 5%), newer TDI's where I'd recommend a service interval shorter than 10,000 miles, based on oil analysis results. This isn't one of them....
TS
Jet A
Well-known member
Oil Analysis Results
After finding a large amount of fine dust on my AFE filter, thread here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=371563 I had an oil analysis done. So I figured I would share the results with the forum. In summary, all seems well.
09 Jetta 45,000 miles
Stage2 tune/ DPFectomy
After finding a large amount of fine dust on my AFE filter, thread here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=371563 I had an oil analysis done. So I figured I would share the results with the forum. In summary, all seems well.
09 Jetta 45,000 miles
Stage2 tune/ DPFectomy
That what I thought so. Also HTHS should above 3.5 since this LL oils. So I read in this article (http://books.google.com/books?id=XjTaOqE...ity&f=false) that higher HTHS number oil have tendency to lose faster this HTHS. So unfortunately I had never seen those oil reports that is providing HTHS number.
I will try to stick with 5,000 to 7,000 oil changes. But it's me.
mk2_carat
Veteran Member
Just got my results back yesterday, pretty happy with what they are. Any ideas of why boron and tin might be higher than the average? I'm also curious of why, if there was so much additive left in the oil, they said only to try 6k next time. Thanks in advance for any info!
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mk2_carat
Veteran Member
Awesome, appreciate the feedback. So you think I'm good just to go straight for 10k? Not 7500 or so and then resubmit for another test? Kinda makes me nervous, haha.
TomB
Veteran Member
After seeing that VW switched the 2.0L TDI in the Passats to Polish instead of German sourcing I am wondering if we should track UOA with the country of manufacture information as well.
It would be interesting to see if wide variations between the same model engines has something to do with the source location.
I will be posting my German 2.0L TDI Used Oil Analysis once Blackstone's corrects the results to show 2012 instead of 2013.
FYI you can find the country of origin of the engine on the window sticker. As well the dealer can pull up the window sticker by VIN. Or at least they used to.
https://picasaweb.google.com/mtbarr64/Passat_2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCIX-4PGJxfjlQA#5833823297096109554
It would be interesting to see if wide variations between the same model engines has something to do with the source location.
I will be posting my German 2.0L TDI Used Oil Analysis once Blackstone's corrects the results to show 2012 instead of 2013.
FYI you can find the country of origin of the engine on the window sticker. As well the dealer can pull up the window sticker by VIN. Or at least they used to.
https://picasaweb.google.com/mtbarr64/Passat_2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCIX-4PGJxfjlQA#5833823297096109554
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redone17
Veteran Member
I got my first OA results back today.
This is my first oil change owning this car. PO used Castrol SLX 5w30 (Pro OE)every 5k miles.
I changed over to Castrol Edge 5w40 (Pro OE) after 5k. Engine is at 140k.
Looks pretty good! I was concerned about the Camshaft - but seems the 5k intervals were a blessing in disguise.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
This is my first oil change owning this car. PO used Castrol SLX 5w30 (Pro OE)every 5k miles.
I changed over to Castrol Edge 5w40 (Pro OE) after 5k. Engine is at 140k.
Looks pretty good! I was concerned about the Camshaft - but seems the 5k intervals were a blessing in disguise.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Chris,
The Blackstone comments, with all due respect, are way off base. That's a lot of iron and aluminum wear for only 5000 miles. I've seen the best results in the PD engines, with the 5w-40, HD synthetic oils (CJ-4/SM rated), in these motors:
Mobil 1, Turbo diesel truck
Amsoil Premium Synthetic Diesel oil
Shell Rotella T6
Schaeffers 5w-40
Redline 5w-40
I would not go dumping the oil you just put in, but I'd test it after 5000 miles. It may work a bit better since its a 5w-40. But if you're still seeing > 40 ppm of Fe, the trend is not good.
Your soot level is also elevated, which means combustion efficiency could be better. I'd make sure the air filter is clean and I'd run a strong dose of diesel fuel additive with a full tank of fuel to clean the injectors. Reducing the soot will decrease the Fe and Al wear.
TS
The Blackstone comments, with all due respect, are way off base. That's a lot of iron and aluminum wear for only 5000 miles. I've seen the best results in the PD engines, with the 5w-40, HD synthetic oils (CJ-4/SM rated), in these motors:
Mobil 1, Turbo diesel truck
Amsoil Premium Synthetic Diesel oil
Shell Rotella T6
Schaeffers 5w-40
Redline 5w-40
I would not go dumping the oil you just put in, but I'd test it after 5000 miles. It may work a bit better since its a 5w-40. But if you're still seeing > 40 ppm of Fe, the trend is not good.
Your soot level is also elevated, which means combustion efficiency could be better. I'd make sure the air filter is clean and I'd run a strong dose of diesel fuel additive with a full tank of fuel to clean the injectors. Reducing the soot will decrease the Fe and Al wear.
TS
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redone17
Veteran Member
TS -
Thanks for your input. Exactly why I posted here right away.
My plan was to try out the Castrol 5w40 for an interval or two (to stick with what the car was raised on - I have some faith in them - I run it in my Fox too - I know, totally different beast). Then take the recommendation of countless members and go with Rotella T6. Between those few intervals see where my engine's happiness lies.
Good idea?
I was still planning my next change at 5k.
Thanks for your input. Exactly why I posted here right away.
My plan was to try out the Castrol 5w40 for an interval or two (to stick with what the car was raised on - I have some faith in them - I run it in my Fox too - I know, totally different beast). Then take the recommendation of countless members and go with Rotella T6. Between those few intervals see where my engine's happiness lies.
Good idea?
I was still planning my next change at 5k.
shuswap
Veteran Member
Chris, I have a PD with the cam/lifter issue. Mine was discovered at least 85K miles back and the engine had been fed mostly Castrol Syntec products, by the dealer mostly.
I have been monitoring the cam/lifters ever since, about the same time I took a friendly suggestion from TS about switching to TDT oil and/or T6.
The observable wear since that 1st inspection has (seemingly) slowed quite dramatically. It's still ongoing, but fairly slow deterioration has been noted at each inspection.
Wouldn't hurt to inspect your cam/lifters.....it's pretty easy and if you have the issue it`s far better to catch the wear before a nasty/expensive lifter failure that 'eats' the engine. Of course, there may not be an issue with your cam and lifters.
I have been monitoring the cam/lifters ever since, about the same time I took a friendly suggestion from TS about switching to TDT oil and/or T6.
The observable wear since that 1st inspection has (seemingly) slowed quite dramatically. It's still ongoing, but fairly slow deterioration has been noted at each inspection.
Wouldn't hurt to inspect your cam/lifters.....it's pretty easy and if you have the issue it`s far better to catch the wear before a nasty/expensive lifter failure that 'eats' the engine. Of course, there may not be an issue with your cam and lifters.
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