TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

[Bob_Fout]

Bob,

None of the MB 229.51 oils have 700 ppm of magnesium along with > 1000 ppm of calcium. And there's no way you'd have a TBN of 3.5 after 10k miles with either a VW 507.00 or MB 229.51, low ash formulation.

It's definitely Mobil 1/TDT or Mobil Delvac 1/ESP....

TS

Hm, I do think you are right. TBN takes a huge hit faster than previous TDIs.

 

[bannister]

Based on the ZDDP (and accounting for B-S's sometimes large range) and visco, this looks more like Mobil 1 ESP 5w40. (229.51/229.31)

I can assure you it's Delvac 1.

 

[TooSlick]

Look at how low the Fe, Al and Cu wear is for a CBEA engine with only 30,000 miles on it. Clearly a thicker oil with a higher level of anti wear additives.

So much for the superiority of VW's latest "Über Lube"....

TS

 

[Bob_Fout]

I can assure you it's Delvac 1.

Where did you find Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 at?

 

[bannister]

Where did you find Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 at?

At a local wholesale fuel and lube distributor that doesn't mind making the occasional retail counter sale.

 

[TornadoRed]

Where did you find Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 at?

I wonder if a Mobil 1 Lube Express carries Delvac 1 or can get it?

 

[bannister]

One case is enough for three oil changes.

 

[kydsid]

2012 Passat - First Oil Change - Factory Fill

 

[TooSlick]

Kydsid,

Doesn't look bad at all for the factory fill. The Passat engine seems to shed less metal than the earlier CBEA engine in the golf/Jetta. The potassium is residue from the manufacturing process and will dissipate after a few more oil changes.

What type of driving conditions?

Thanks,

TS

 

[kydsid]

80% highway give or take. Daily 80 mile round trip commute on mostly highways subject to city rush hour slow downs.

 

[JungleDeath]

1st oil change back in April 2012. IIRC, at least 1/2 the fill ups were with B20. I Just sent a sample in today; 4,000 miles and at least 90% B20 fills.

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[TooSlick]

The biodiesel is diluting and thinning out the oil. Viscosity should be in the 11.5-12.5 Cst range.

 

[Sooch]

The 05 is looking good so far.

 

[Fumes]

I have got an oil analysis four times, with the last two at the time I changed the oil. The first one done at 184905km with 10000km on the oil, the second at 199791km with 10725km on the oil and the third at 216113km and the last one at 230280km. The only concern noted is the Iron levels and soot levels - first on Fe 48 ST 91, 2nd Fe 44 ST 26, 3rd Fe 85 ST 65, and the last one 113 Fe and ST 107.

I'm a little concerned with the high Fe levels. I plan to resample at around 3000km and go from there. Any comments would be appreciated.

2006 MkIV Wagon, Standard Transmission, BEW motor - all stock.

 

[TooSlick]

Fumes,

I'd try a 5w-40, HD diesel oil like Mobil 1/TDT, Shell Rotella T6 or Amsoil DEO. Your engine is showing signs of abnormal cam lobe and lifter wear.

TS

 

[Fumes]

No strange noises yet, but haven't had the valve cover off yet to check the camshaft. The first 3 tests were done using 0W40 Esso XD-3 full synthetic and the last one I was using 5W40 Pentosin Pento High Performance II synthetic.

 

[JungleDeath]

Anyone know of a way to post the Blackstone pdf in a larger size thats clear? I also would like to blot out my home info. Using a pc on win7. PM would be best. Using Win7.

 

[kydsid]

Anyone know of a way to post the Blackstone pdf in a larger size thats clear? I also would like to blot out my home info. Using a pc on win7. PM would be best. Using Win7.

Many ways, or programs. For free with nothing but Acrobat follow this:


Open pdf, select edit - copy to clipboard, open MS Paint, Paste, choose eraser icon, erase info, click file, save as jpg etc, upload to hosting site, put link in response.

 

[JungleDeath]

Many ways, or programs. For free with nothing but Acrobat follow this:
Open pdf, select edit - copy to clipboard, open MS Paint, Paste, choose eraser icon, erase info, click file, save as jpg etc, upload to hosting site, put link in response.

Thank you. I think I did it that way last time but somehow f'd it up this time.

This last analysis was a mid OCI of 4000 miles. This time w/ at least 90% B20 usage. Is there a 5-40 oil for common rails? I think not right?

[url=http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=89625&title=midterm-oil-analisys-8-4-12&cat=5375][/URL]

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[TooSlick]

Jungle,

You're seeing lots of fuel dilution due to the B20 use. This is thinning the oil and causing increased cylinder wear. It also seems to be degrading the oil more quickly - note the TBN of 2.0 after only 4000 miles.

TS

 

[JungleDeath]

TS,

Thanks. This all confirms my suspicion...I knew it would dilute but wow was that fast. I think I just assumed that the truck folks had more dilution because they had more cylinders to fuel into. I always wondered if 4cyl would dilute less. I will reduce my bio usage and do one more test in 4000 miles and report back. BTW, isn't TBN the amount of additive left in your oil? I wonder if this brand (Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro c-3 5W-30) is cutting it.

Oh well.

 

[TornadoRed]

BTW, isn't TBN the amount of additive left in your oil?

TBN means Total Base Number. It is a measure of the acid neutralizing additives remaining. A very low number means the accumulated acids can attack the metals in the engine. The important variable is how quickly the TBN decreases; if it drops quickly then you need to reduce the oil change interval. (or try a different oil with a more robust additive package)

Biodiesel contamination of the engine oil can be a serious problem in engines with the kind of diesel particulate filter regeneration system used in VW TDIs. Volkswagen recommends no more than 5% biodiesel (B05). B10 or greater almost always requires a shorter OCI. Biodiesel attaches chemically to metal parts and prevents the anti-wear additives in the oil from attaching to those parts.

 

[nyrussell]

Okay, how do you add a photo from the gallery here?

.......





Okay, now what?

 

[Fumes]

Here is my analysis for the last four changes:





2006 Jetta Wagon Mk IV - BEW, 5 Spd Std

 

[TooSlick]

Fumes,

It looks like the first three tests are after a 10,000 km interval, but the last is after 15,000 km, so the results aren't directly comparable. If a soot level of 107 equals 1.07%, thats going to cause some increase in valve train wear in a PD engine. It looks like you're already using a 5w-40 oil, so I'd drop back to the 10,000 km interval.

Your Fe levels are on the high side, but if they're stable I think it's probably not an issue. Are you running a HD diesel oil, or is this a VW 505.01 Spec lube?

TS

 

[nyrussell]

Last Oil Analysis

What do you think Too Slick?

 

[TooSlick]

Russell,

I'd check the air filter and make sure there are no loose connections in the intake plumbing. I'd also inspect the crankcase ventilation system hoses. Your last test shows a significant increase in silicon, along with corresponding increases in Fe, Cr and Ni. This normally indicates abrasive wear of the intake and/or exhaust valves, which are made of stainless steel (iron, alloyed with chromium + nickel).

From 30k to 50k miles all your wear metals should be trending down...

TS

 

[MonsterTDI09]

Here is my UOA what do you guys think

 

[TooSlick]

Monster,

Your engine is in excellent shape, given the trend of these three analyses. Engine is still wearing in and the wear metal profile should stabilize by the 50k mark. Your Fe levels look particularly good for a 30k analysis; silicon and soot are nice and low.

TS

 

[Sootman]

Oil analysis at 150K. Replaced cam and bearings at 130K so the iron may be an indicator of their wearing in.

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