TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

TornadoRed

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Blue_Hen_TDI said:
2006 Golf TDI
Miles on oil - 10,000
Miles on unit - 70,000
Elf Excellium DID 5W/40 VW 505.01

Iron - 94

Insolubles - 0.4
I gather that they don't provide a TBN?

The iron seems too high, considering that the soot is not that bad.

I don't think driving hard is the cause, but I don't know what is.

I'd suggest testing at 5k but not changing right away. The iron will probably still be high because of residual old oil in the sump.
 

Chasee

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Mar 31, 2004
So what do you all think? I did have to add some coolant a little while back, but just a cup or so. Have not noticed any drop since. Had EGR replaced under warranty way back at 30K or so.

 

Chasee

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Yea, worrisome. So the big question is could the WVO be turning into a problem, or is a coolant leak causing this excess wear?
 

TornadoRed

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Chasee said:
Yea, worrisome. So the big question is could the WVO be turning into a problem, or is a coolant leak causing this excess wear?
You must answer this one yourself, no one else can diagnose this one long-distance.
 

dhdenney

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2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
Well a lot of us saw the pics of the WVO experiment. I would consider brewing bio from the WVO before running the WVO straight.
 

Chasee

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Yea, well, kinda moot for me at this point. :D

Something I'm not clear on. The suggestion is to change oil more frequently. That's fine, but doesn't that just mask a potential problem?

Also, can wear metals spike like this due to a coolant leak? I checked my coolant this AM and it does seems I have lost a tiny bit since my top off a couple weeks ago.

Finally, if it is a coolant leak, and its not the EGR, am I correct that basically the engine will need to be torn down to actually find it?
 

wjdell

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06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
If you have coolant leak that is something your lab should be pointing out. Coolant will show other spikes as well.
 

Chasee

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Check out the report, they do say that a coolant leak is likely.
 

dhdenney

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2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
Chasee said:
Check out the report, they do say that a coolant leak is likely.
Where else can the coolant enter? The EGR cooler mentioned and the obvious head gasket. Is it possible for the oil heat exhchanger to crack and seep coolant? Cracked block, water jackets?
 

wjdell

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Well then you better fix it - in the interim change more frequently to reduce the damage till it is fixed. If it was mine I parked it the day I discovered this.
 

DeliveryValve

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Mar 27, 2007
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Western US
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Passat GLS Wagon
Chasee I'm curious, I've been reading several sites about WVO usage and they state that WVO can contaminate the oil with polymers which causes the oil to not lubricate properly. The bottom line was to change the oil out early. Did you know about this? If you did, how come you never changed it out early and kept it at near the VW schedule?
 

TornadoRed

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Chasee says the EGR was replaced at 30k miles, but it now has 70k and there sure looks to be coolant contamination -- see sodium.

The viscosity is very high, considering the modest soot level. Coolant would lower the viscosity, so something else is at work here.

I'm going to guess that there are two problems here -- and Chasee is lucky that he tested and lucky that the results were not a whole lot worse. He must find both problems, and until then he must shorten the OCI. (and stop using WVO)
 

Chasee

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DeliveryValve said:
Chasee I'm curious, I've been reading several sites about WVO usage and they state that WVO can contaminate the oil with polymers which causes the oil to not lubricate properly. The bottom line was to change the oil out early. Did you know about this? If you did, how come you never changed it out early and kept it at near the VW schedule?
I did multiple UOA's and each time they determined my oil could go a whole lot longer. So while I agree with shorter change times as a general rule, if the UOAs are clear, I saw no reason to changout faster. As you can see, they found no fuel contamination, no soot worth mentioning (I called and confirmed that), but indicators of coolant contamination.


TornadoRed said:
Chasee says the EGR was replaced at 30k miles, but it now has 70k and there sure looks to be coolant contamination -- see sodium.

The viscosity is very high, considering the modest soot level. Coolant would lower the viscosity, so something else is at work here.

I'm going to guess that there are two problems here -- and Chasee is lucky that he tested and lucky that the results were not a whole lot worse. He must find both problems, and until then he must shorten the OCI. (and stop using WVO)
So what are the two suspects? Coolant and WVO? I'm going to get a coolant pressure test on Monday. Should I tell them to do something else as well?
 

RedWolfeXR

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Mar 11, 2007
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Dallas
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2000 Jetta GLS TDI
wjdell said:
Awful thin oil for a 2000. With no baseline its hard to tell. Nothing major here and you will know for sure in the future. Fe a tad high but all else looks OK. The NEW Delvac 1 CJ4 - Amsoil DEO, and Schaeffers 9000 would all be good choices for this engine.
I was limited at the time to what oil I could find at Napa, so I grabbed the only 501.00 oil I could find.

Since then I have ordered 2 changes worth of 507 oil, since the VW LL3 was the same price as most 501 oil at Impex. So thats going to be the next two changes anyway. I did notice a slight MPG improvement on the 0W40 though.

The LL3 is 5W30, so it should be fine I would think.
 

RedWolfeXR

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2000 Jetta GLS TDI
Yeah, I did... meant 505.00 but was thinking about 505.01 and it was too early in the morning....
 

dhdenney

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RedWolfeXR said:
Yeah, I did... meant 505.00 but was thinking about 505.01 and it was too early in the morning....
I hear ya but you said 501.00 so you didn't get that either. :p A combination of both. :cool:
 

Spoolin'Jim

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Aug 23, 2006
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Appleton, Wi
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2006.5 Jetta TDI, 5 speed, Pkg. 1, White
Hello everyone,

Here is the results from my last 3 oil changes. All are on 505.1 oil from the dealer. As of now, I am doing my own oil changes using Long Life III and will post my results in 9500 miles when I do a sample and see how far I really can go on that stuff. I will be switching labs too. This is the one we use for work, but compared to some of the other places, they are expensive and I don't like their report format, they are just fast (3 day turn around for me). Any comment on my high FE or magnesium. I'm still learning how to read these, so any and all input would help me learn and feel at ease about my car :D. Not sure on my Pic link, so hope that works.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13883736@N05/1457929447/
 

wjdell

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06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
change labs your soot level is important - its hard to tell from these reports but maybe it will get stable next OC. I would do another 5k OC and lower the numbers.
 

Spoolin'Jim

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2006.5 Jetta TDI, 5 speed, Pkg. 1, White
I had the first oil change sample sitting around untill I got some sample bottles and decided what to do.

wjdell: The 5k oil change was due to them being the first 2 oil changes for the car ever. There is no way im going to change 507 oil every 5k miles. And yes, the lab bites. I asked them how to get that stuff sampled and they said they dont do some of it anymore, just never bothered to change the form o_O
 
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dhdenney

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It's kinda odd how the iron nearly doubles in the last OCI when the previous one dropped significantly over the first.
 

wjdell

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06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
I said another 5k not every 5k - your next UOA will be about 60 Fe @ 10k, all else the same. The other numbers look good, but its your soot level that is in question, might explain your Fe count.
 

SUNRG

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Roanoke, VA
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None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI

bottom line: in my engine & operating conditions ELF Solaris LLX 5w-30 50700 delivered the highest level of wear protection of the oils i've used. the oil performed optimally (equal to or better than new oil) for more than 14,000 miles and only a slight depreciation in performance resulted after very demading use (summer / AC on while high speed towing with 16k plus miles on oil). below is a blip i'd written about this OCI in another thread:
the LLX, under IMHO very demanding operating conditions, performed optimally past 14,000 miles. when i tested again at 17,000+ and it was still working & protecting but no longer at an optimal level.

oil in the average TDI does not see the kind of stress the LLX endured. on the highways along and across the Blue Ridge Mountains in VA i generally set the CC on 75mph and get roughly 45mpg. during my last towing trip with a fairly heavy load while running LLX with over 16,000 miles on it, i still set the CC on 75mph and fuel economy dropped to ~31mpg. my TDI had no trouble maintaining 75mph while towing, but as you can see from the FE drop, it was working much harder than when unloaded.
ELF Solaris LSX 5w-30 VW 50501/MB 229.51/BMW LL04 is in my TDI now.
 
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wjdell

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06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
SUNRG - can you tell us - did you flush before switching to 507, and what was the UOA prior in Fe.

Excellent results - you have a very good motor.
 

ymz

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Delvac-1 UOA at 15,205 miles

Windjammer said:
..it's important to use a new piece of tubing. When I buy my sample kits from the Cat store it comes with a new piece of tubing. Pricing btw is 1 for $18 or a 10 pack for $90. Price includes postage & lab analysis.
Up here we don't get any tubing, so... I just use my Pela and let it drip down into the collection bottle... (yes, I know... it's a bit neaderthal...)

After my third oil use cycle with Delvac-1 (in whatever branding I had), I had it analysed to provide some comparison with my previous ~178,000 mile use of Rotella-5W-40.

Car: 2003 TDI Jetta 5 speed, 248479 miles (399889 km), 15205 miles on the oil (24470 km), and the oil was in the car for 115 days. (I’ve been running the “Smog” .205 nozzles for the past 106,000 miles.) I did need a half-litre of oil to top-up 3/4 of the way through the oil cycle – but I also noticed that I had noticeably more oil in my CCV trap than with the Rotella…

Results are as follows... (the second and third sets of numbers are from previous oil changes with Rotella 5W-40).

Milage ------ 248479 ----- 208268 ---- 136907
Date -------- Sep.’07 ---- Nov.'06 --- Aug.'05
Miles-on-Oil - 15205 ----- 12475 ----- 15091
(oil brand)-- Delvac-1 -- Rotella ---- Rotella

Al ------------ 5 ---------- 3 ---------- 5
B ------------- 22 ----------0 ---------- 1
Ca ----------- 2554 ------- 3120 ------- 3635
Cr ------------ 2 ---------- 1 ---------- 2
Cu ------------ 2 ---------- 1 ---------- 5
Fe ------------ 39 --------- 22 -------- 40
Pb ------------ 4 ---------- 1 ---------- 1
Mg ----------- 480 --------- 7 --------- 10
Mo ------------ 1 ---------- 0 ---------- 1
Ni ------------ 1 ---------- 1 ---------- 4
P ------------ 1347 ------- 1006 ------- 1056
K ------------- 4 ---------- 3 ----------- 2
Si ------------ 4 ---------- 1 ----------- 3
Na ------------ 3 ---------- 0 ----------- 5
Sn ------------ 0 ---------- 0 ----------- 1
Zn ----------- 1333 ------- 1101 ------- 1238
ST ------------ 56 --------- 103 --------- 98
OXI ----------- 16 --------- 28 ---------- 35
NIT ----------- 10 --------- 54 ---------- 63
SUL ----------- 13 --------- 40 ---------- 60
W ------------- N ---------- N ------------ N
A ------------- N ---------- N ------------ N
F ------------- N ---------- N ------------ N
V100 --------- 15.5 ------- 14.4 -------- 14.4
TBN ---------- 9.8 -------- 10.4 --------- n/a


Hope this means something to someone...

Yuri.
 
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wjdell

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Yuri - thats a million mile engine - 12k numbers are the best I have ever seen anywhere. You all are so lucky to be able to use Rotella T. Price and availability - Walmart anywhere I go I see Rotella T. I used it for 20 years,

Has anyone ever posted a UOA better than your 12k, 22 Fe , 3 Al, and 1 for the rest of the wear metals.
 
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