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TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
sdeck said:
This oil report really has me worked up. I cannot afford to have this thing blow up on me and would really like to avoid any major engine work. The coolant contamination has me perplexed. The coolant level has been rock steady for at least 12K
Please post comments as to how serious this is.
It's pretty serious. You need to track down the coolant contamination. And running on WVO, you need to cut the OCI to 5K miles
 

sdeck

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Location
Northern Colorado Front Range
TDI
2003 Jetta, 253K, 01M, DLC520s, VNT-17(sold); 2014 Passat SE 6M, 61,000 miles (Feb 16 buyback date)
How can I be getting coolant in the oil but no drop in coolant level? If it is seeping past the head gasket, how to I check that?
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 25, 2001
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
dhdenney said:
So to get an accurate representation, one should sample at say 2500, 5000, 7500, and then 10,000 miles for an accurate comparison?
Sorry DH - I ment run four separate oil changes - one to stabilize the engine with the new chemistry, then three for 'real data'.

Go ahead a pull a sample at around 5K if you'd like so you can directly compare with your current data. The numbers that will count, though, will be the numbers you get after the 1 year or 10,000 mile point.

You already know that wear will spike up a bit immediately after an oil change then drop. Then wear will increase a bit around the middle of the oil change interval as the 505.01 oil shears back a bit and thins. Wear rates should drop a bit in the last 1/2 of the interval as the oil thickens back up.
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
AndyH said:
Sorry DH - I ment run four separate oil changes - one to stabilize the engine with the new chemistry, then three for 'real data'.

Go ahead a pull a sample at around 5K if you'd like so you can directly compare with your current data. The numbers that will count, though, will be the numbers you get after the 1 year or 10,000 mile point.

You already know that wear will spike up a bit immediately after an oil change then drop. Then wear will increase a bit around the middle of the oil change interval as the 505.01 oil shears back a bit and thins. Wear rates should drop a bit in the last 1/2 of the interval as the oil thickens back up.
Oh ok, was a little confused. Thanks!
 

mparker326

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Location
Knoxville, TN
TDI
Golf 2002 Gray
TornadoRed said:
I think you should change it. The soot at 0.70% is getting up there, and the Fe at 89 ppm is very high even on a relatively low-mile engine.

When you say the sample was taken with an extractor pump, do you mean a clean pump with no chance of previous contamination?
Looking at other Passat UOA's, Fe looks similar. I will change it and stick with 7500 OCI for the next few intervals.

It was a brand new pump. I took one sample with it. Shook it up. Poured it out and then took another sample & sent that one in.
 

anoldbaldman

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Location
Oregon
TDI
04 Passat TDI
JACK: Your Passat engine is looking good. All wear was around average levels for this type of
engine, which is a very good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation by the operator.
Bearing wear read nicely. We found nothing from our test data that would suggest any kind of
mechanical problem at 77,000 miles. The viscosity read mildly low but we were not sure of the
viscosity going in. This oil read like a 10W/30. We did not find any harmful contamination that would
have caused a viscosity shift. Looks like a nice engine with a lot of good miles left. This was serviced by the VW dealer.

aluminum 3
chromium 2
iron 24
copper 2
lead 2
tin 1
molybdenum 2
nickel 1
manganese 1
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 0
boron 10
silicon 3
sodium 3
calcium 1811
magnesium 7
phosphorus 716
zinc 854
barium 0

sub viscosity @210 f 64.1
flashpoint 415
fuel <0.5
antifreeze 0%
water 0%
insolubles .3%

oil has 2000 miles on it
car has 77000 miles
oil should be castrol TXT 505.01

any thoughts?
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
anoldbaldman said:
only 2000 on this one. changed it because the dealer could not show me that they used 505.01 oil
I'm a moron. I couldn't find the mileage for nothing.
 

nutdriver

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Location
Wichita Area KS
TDI
Jetta 2006 (Previously NB 2000)
This is my first UOA tested by Polaris Laboratories. No oil added.
Oil collect via UOA portable Polaris vacuum pump from dip stick 1 minute after shutdown and hot oil. Used clean sample tube, first sample discarded, analysis on second sample.

Oil is Motul 505.01 100% Synthetic.
2006.5 PD TDI Jetta
VW OEM Oil Filter
70% Highway
30% City
Mileage on Vehicle 14961 miles
Mileage on Oil 5136 miles


WEAR METALS PPM:
Fe: 33
Cr: 1
Ni: 1
AL: 4
Cu: 4
Pb: 1
Sn: 1
Cd: 0
Ag: 0
Ti: 0
V: 0

Containment metals PPM:
Si: 2
Na: 6
K: 6

Multi-source metals PPM:
Mo: 1
Sb: 1
Mn: 0
Li: 0
B: 67

Additive metals PPM:
Mg: 32
Ca: 2402
Ba: 0
P: 994
Zn: 1156

Fuel vol: 0.5%
Soot vol: 0.1%
Water vol: 0.00%
Vis 100C CS: 13.1
TBN: NA
I-R Oxida: 10.00
I-R Nitra: 17.00

My impression is that this is a good UOA for a low mileage TDI. I would appreciate any comments from those with more experience looking at analysis reports. I have not changed this oil yet
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
nutdriver said:
Mileage on Vehicle 14961 miles
Mileage on Oil 5136 miles

WEAR METALS PPM:
Fe: 33
Cr: 1
Ni: 1
AL: 4
Cu: 4
(snip)
Soot vol: 0.1%
Water vol: 0.00%
Vis 100C CS: 13.1
TBN: NA
I-R Oxida: 10.00
I-R Nitra: 17.00

My impression is that this is a good UOA for a low mileage TDI. I would appreciate any comments from those with more experience looking at analysis reports. I have not changed this oil yet
I agree, this oil can go longer. The soot is low, the additives have not lost their potency, and the wear numbers are very good. No TBN value, but the oxidation and nitration numbers can be used as a surrogate, and they are fine. The Fe should drop as the engine gets more miles on it.
 

nutdriver

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Location
Wichita Area KS
TDI
Jetta 2006 (Previously NB 2000)
TornadoRed said:
I agree, this oil can go longer. The soot is low, the additives have not lost their potency, and the wear numbers are very good. No TBN value, but the oxidation and nitration numbers can be used as a surrogate, and they are fine. The Fe should drop as the engine gets more miles on it.
TornadoRed - Thanks for your comments. I intend to finish my 10,000 miles on this oil and then most likely will switch over to a 507 oil.
 

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
This is my first UOA since I purchased the vehicle new. I changed the oil after pulling this sample. Any thoughts on this UOA?

UOA by Oil Analyzers
2004 Jetta PD TDI - Total miles: 119815
Driving style is 99% highway, 30 miles each way.
Oil - Elf 506.01 - 0W30 - Miles on oil sample: 10097

Iron 30
Chromium 1
Lead 0
Copper 4
Tin 0
Aluminum 8
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 3
Boron 99
Sodium 65
Magnesium 336
Calcium 3259
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1239
Zinc 1472
Molybdenum 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0

Fule (% of vol) <1
Vis @ 40 C - NA
Vis @ 100 C cSt - 9.6
Water (% of vol) - 0
Soot/Solids (%WT) - 0.6
Coolant - NO

Additional Tests
TBN 6.86
OXID - NA
F-Soot 0.60
Change yes

Recommendations
No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next regular interval.
 
Last edited:

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
Phaser: The sodium is off the chart, it should be 0 or very close. And the viscosity is very low -- at 9.6 cSt, it is just barely a 30-weight oil. Anything below 9.3 cSt @ 100°C is considered a 20-weight.

The wear numbers look good, but you can probably do as well with a $6-7/liter VW507.00 oil instead of paying $10-12/liter for the Elf CRV.
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
phaser said:
Additional Tests

TBN 6.86

OXID - NA

F-Soot 0.60

Change yes

Recommendations
No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next regular interval.
How is that everyone is keeping their soot so much lower than me?
 

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
TornadoRed said:
Phaser: The sodium is off the chart, it should be 0 or very close.
The leaking EGR cooler was changed out, and the oil changed shortly after. This UOA is on the oil after the EGR cooler replacement and oil change. There is no coolant leaking since the EGR cooler was replaced.

Do you think the Sodium is left over or where would it come from?

And the viscosity is very low -- at 9.6 cSt, it is just barely a 30-weight oil. Anything below 9.3 cSt @ 100°C is considered a 20-weight.
What would cause low viscosity?

I'm not doubting you but why would they say: "No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use" if the viscosity is so low?

The wear numbers look good, but you can probably do as well with a $6-7/liter VW507.00 oil instead of paying $10-12/liter for the Elf CRV.
I already had a case of ELF 507.00 and have that in the crank case now.

I didn't mention but our driving style is 99% highway. I'll add this to the orginal post.
 
Last edited:

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
phaser said:
The leaking EGR cooler was changed out, and the oil changed shortly after. This UOA is on the oil after the EGR cooler replacement and oil change. There is no coolant leaking since the EGR cooler was replaced.
Do you think the Sodium is left over or where would it come from?
You said this was the first UOA, thus you have no idea how much higher the sodium could have been previously. So yes, this could be left over from the seriously contaminated oil, that was mostly drained during the previous oil change.

What would cause low viscosity?
Don't know, but someone else might have some ideas.

I'm not doubting you but why would they say: "No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use" if the viscosity is so low?
I think that is a standard phrase which is already in the "comments" section of the report. Sometimes it ought to be deleted before the report is sent out, but it rarely is. For ~$20 you can't expect a detailed report -- you need to draw your own conclusions, not rely on a tech who runs hundreds of samples every day.
 

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
TornadoRed said:
You said this was the first UOA, thus you have no idea how much higher the sodium could have been previously. So yes, this could be left over from the seriously contaminated oil, that was mostly drained during the previous oil change.
Should I change the oil now and then do another UOA after 5000 miles?
 
Last edited:

studebaker

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Location
Lake City, Fl
TDI
2006 Jetta pk 1
Castrol TXT 5W40 anaylisis

Okay guys, just got this one back from Schaeffer.
Oil used was Castrol TXT 5W40 505.01
2006 Jetta TDI
19,607 miles on car
9,807 miles on oil
Copper- 8
Iron - 81
Chromium - 3
Aluminum- 8
Lead -- 4
Molybdenum- 3
Phosphorus- 1134
Zinc-- 1134
Magnesium-- 44
Calcium-- 2834
anti-freeze --0
fuel dilution--N
H2O --0
silicon-- 7
Viscosity CST- 13.17
SAE ISO -- 40
Sulfur- 13
Oxidation--7
Nitration-- 15
Soot -- .3
Maintain Current Oil Drain Interval.
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
nice low wear numbers. this engine will run for many many moons ;). i hope you'll have your current fill of 507 analyzed for us all to compare!

as TR has said, keep an eye on the NA in future UOAs.

it'll be interesting to see if the $6-7 Castrol 507 performs as well as other $10-11 507 oils... Motul, Liqui Moly, ELF or even the Mobil.

cheers!

phaser said:
Oil - Elf 506.01 - 0W30 - Miles on oil sample: 10097

Iron 30
Chromium 1
Lead 0
Copper 4
Tin 0
Aluminum 8
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 3
Boron 99
Sodium 65
Magnesium 336
Calcium 3259
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1239
Zinc 1472
Molybdenum 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0

Fule (% of vol) <1
Vis @ 40 C - NA
Vis @ 100 C cSt - 9.6
Water (% of vol) - 0
Soot/Solids (%WT) - 0.6
Coolant - NO

Additional Tests
TBN 6.86
OXID - NA
F-Soot 0.60
Change yes

Recommendations
No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next regular interval.
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
this UOA looks fine for a PD100 @ 20k ODO.

if this were my TDI - i would do one short 5k OCI to reduce the contaminant concentration, and change to a 507 oil at mile 25,000.

cheers!
studebaker said:
Okay guys, just got this one back from Schaeffer.
Oil used was Castrol TXT 5W40 505.01
2006 Jetta TDI
19,607 miles on car
9,807 miles on oil
Copper- 8
Iron - 81
Chromium - 3
Aluminum- 8
Lead -- 4
Molybdenum- 3
Phosphorus- 1134
Zinc-- 1134
Magnesium-- 44
Calcium-- 2834
anti-freeze --0
fuel dilution--N
H2O --0
silicon-- 7
Viscosity CST- 13.17
SAE ISO -- 40
Sulfur- 13
Oxidation--7
Nitration-- 15
Soot -- .3
Maintain Current Oil Drain Interval.
 

B100

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Location
Berkeley, Eastbania
TDI
2003 Golf
Getting oil analyzed

Basic question - who does oil analysis? Are people all using the same few labs, or is this something I can get done locally almost anywhere? Is there a list of labs somewhere here on the TDIClub site?

TIA
 

phaser

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Location
Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta PD - 490k
SUNRG said:
nice low wear numbers. this engine will run for many many moons ;). i hope you'll have your current fill of 507 analyzed for us all to compare!
I'm going to pull samples at 5k and 10k on this fill of 507.
 

studebaker

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Location
Lake City, Fl
TDI
2006 Jetta pk 1
B100 said:
Basic question - who does oil analysis? Are people all using the same few labs, or is this something I can get done locally almost anywhere? Is there a list of labs somewhere here on the TDIClub site?

TIA
A lot of companies do the oil analysis. Check out these links-
http://bobistheoilguy.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm
http://www.dysonanalysis.com/
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html
also, most of the companies that sell oil offer this service. Most of the big truck sells and service shops do this as well. You may have a local Mack, Cat etc shop that does it.
 

B100

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Location
Berkeley, Eastbania
TDI
2003 Golf

RedWolfeXR

Active member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Location
Dallas
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
First UOA, so not much to base it on yet. 2000 Jetta, with Mobil One Euro 0W40. Have 10 liters of VAG 507.01 for the next two fills. Had this car for about 4 years, just never bothered with it.

Had the glow plugs all changed during this sample, as well. Should be running another one next month.

Edit: Hmm, for some reason the image doesn't show inline. Ah well, the link works anyway...
------------
http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43eaf10dma15dff95/bc/public/sample.jpg?BCy4u8GBfaoXZIko
 
Last edited:

RedWolfeXR

Active member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Location
Dallas
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
The image was showing when I hit submit, but it posted with the link -- which worked when I tested it. (sigh)

2000 Jetta TDI
Miles on oil - 2797
Miles on unit - 147749


ALuminum -3
Chromium -2
Iron - 37
Copper - 3
Lead -3
Tin -0
Molybdenum - 56
Manganese - 0
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 0
Boron - 115
Silicon - 5
Sodium - 7
Calcium - 2377
Magnesium - 158
Phosphorus - 775
Zinc - 906
Barium - 0

Visc - 69.6
Flashpt-430
Fuel <0.5
Antifreeze - 0
Water- 0
Insulubles - 0.3

Comments:
DANIEL: Iron read mildly high in this sample of used oil, though not high enough to think you have
any serious problems developing at steel parts. The universal averages show typical wear from this
type of engine after about 8,000 miles on the oil. We expected to see iron read well less than 37 ppm
since you ran this oil less than 3,000 miles. No fuel or coolant was found which would have caused
the excess wear, though soot was fairly high, so it may show a minor combustion problem. We'll

watch it next time. Check back in another 3,000 miles on this oil.



 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
Awful thin oil for a 2000. With no baseline its hard to tell. Nothing major here and you will know for sure in the future. Fe a tad high but all else looks OK. The NEW Delvac 1 CJ4 - Amsoil DEO, and Schaeffers 9000 would all be good choices for this engine.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
UOA 10K OCI 70K on Engine - Excellium DID

I was a little alarmed at the iron number on this one. My historical numbers for FE have been all in the 40s for previous two 10K OCIs. I must confess that I drove like a maniac for much of this OCI, so I am hoping my right foot is more to blame for the wear than something going south in the engine. I would have done a cleansing change as soon as I got this report this morning, but I just put in that SPENSIVE Mobil stuff, so I'll have to hold my breath for 5K. Welcome your comments.

2006 Golf TDI
Miles on oil - 10,000
Miles on unit - 70,000
Elf Excellium DID 5W/40 VW 505.01
Blackstone Labs

Aluminum - 4
Chromium -2
Iron - 94
Copper - 3
Lead - 4
Tin - 0
Molybdenum - 1
Nickel - 1
Manganese - 1
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 4
Boron - 43
Silicon - 3
Sodium - 7
Calcium - 1859
Magnesium - 40
Phosphorus - 742
Zinc - 895
Barium - 0

Visc - 66.8 (SUS - 210F)
Flashpt - 435
Fuel <0.5
Antifreeze - 0
Water- 0
Insolubles - 0.4

Comments:
WAYNE: Running 10,000 miles on this oil should not be a problem for your Golf, but you may want to throw in a shorter oil change every now and then to give the engine a breather. Iron read high, and we presume it's simply accumulated metal from the long oil changes. It could also be a problem at a steel part, but for now we'll give the engine the benefit of the doubt. Run 5000 - 7500 miles for your next oil change. Iron should come down. The other metals all look good and no contaminents were present. The oil did contain soot, which we'll keep an eye on.
 
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