TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
B_H_T_The coolant heater is making a considerable difference. If those are the same oil it improved the flash as well.
Same oil on both. The coolant heater was only responsible for about 1,000 of those miles, but it may have given a small assist.

Next change should reveal more, but I also changed a variable by switching to Total oil, because ID Parts had it for a significantly better price than my dealer was offering the Castrol. I’ll post that UOA in a few months and we’ll revisit.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
UOA from Renewable Lubricants SAE 5W40 (Low Ash)

This is my fourth UOA analysis on my Passat PD (BHW engine) and so far the one with the best results, although I cannot say that the rest of the UOAs are bad either. This oil sample came from my last oil change in mid-May 2017 and it had also 1 quart of the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L 5W-30 (VW 507) mixed in that I had left from my previous oil change.

http://renewablelube.com/files/8914/8977/5451/Bio-SynXtra_HD_Plus_SHP_SAE_5W40_Motor_Oil_LA.pdf

 

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
Thankyou tikal for testing this oil. It confirms my result that I had with this oil.

This result can only get better on the next oil change.

First mixing different brand oils is not normal practice when that same oil has shown the worst iron wear.

Second, this oil and its improved iron wear must also take into consideration the left over addition from the previous oil change. If I remember correctly 15% of iron wear is from the previous oil(info from BITOG). Edit 15% of 33 versus 15% of 22 on the next oil change( not a big difference I guess).

This oil may and will end up on second oil change with less iron. Take out the quart of 5w-30 and it will likely improve further.

Likely(edit: or maybe) by the third oil change tikal will equal my results as well. As far as cost goes I am working on reducing the cost by efficient use of oil and filters.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=472383
 
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tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Thanks J&S for the feedback. What are your thoughts about 50/50 Renewable Lubricants 5W-40 and 5W-30 to get the best of both worlds in terms of enabling the oil to rapidly circulate at startup plus a healthy HTHS for the PD cams?

Thankyou tikal for testing this oil. It confirms my result that I had with this oil.
This result can only get better on the next oil change.
First mixing different brand oils is not normal practice when that same oil has shown the worst iron wear.
Second, this oil and its improved iron wear must also take into consideration the left over addition from the previous oil change. If I remember correctly 15% of iron wear is from the previous oil(info from BITOG). Edit 15% of 33 versus 15% of 22 on the next oil change( not a big difference I guess).
This oil may and will end up on second oil change with less iron. Take out the quart of 5w-30 and it will likely improve further.
Likely(edit: or maybe) by the third oil change tikal will equal my results as well. As far as cost goes I am working on reducing the cost by efficient use of oil and filters.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=472383
 

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
Tikal, For a pd I am pretty sure the 5w-40 with as high a VI possible is the way to go. If you were all highway I would say you could make the 5W-30 507 work.

But I am now a firm believer that as soon as the rpms drop below 1800 rpm wear is going to take place. This wear is due to contaminants in the oil and slight contact that is taking place when the nose of the cam is nearing or dropping from maximum lift( wears center of lifter).

That is why both Franko6 and Colt have both gone to the billet cam that has a deeper induction hardening to help reduce wear of the cam.

Notice I said help.

I have a much cheaper cam and it is not as hard but hard enough and i need the viscosity of the high index 5w-40 below freezing and at the HTHS of
150 C.

The Renewable 5w-40 is just another one of the things I have done that is helping me.
 

bry1216

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Location
Boise, ID
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Blackstone Laboratories report - We know these engines can have problems with premature cam lobe failure? Car is 2006 Jetta TDI Manual 98416 miles - Iron went from 42 to 74 on 7,005 miles - is this true? I cannot find any mention of it on this website....
Need assistance to post pdf or pic of report.
Thank you for replying.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
Blackstone Laboratories report - We know these engines can have problems with premature cam lobe failure? Car is 2006 Jetta TDI Manual 98416 miles - Iron went from 42 to 74 on 7,005 miles - is this true? I cannot find any mention of it on this website....
Need assistance to post pdf or pic of report.
Thank you for replying.
Yes, PD cam lobe wear is an issue:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/camshaft-lobe-wear-inspection-and-replacement-on-tdi-pd-engine/

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=241279

As far as posting a report, I just export the Blackstone report without personal information by checking the box on their website, then I screenshot the report, save as JPG, host it on Imgur, and link the image file.
 

Mrrogers1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Location
Omaha NEEEBRASKA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT, 2015 Golf Sportwagen S TDI DSG
Blackstone Laboratories report - We know these engines can have problems with premature cam lobe failure? Car is 2006 Jetta TDI Manual 98416 miles - Iron went from 42 to 74 on 7,005 miles - is this true? I cannot find any mention of it on this website....
Need assistance to post pdf or pic of report.
Thank you for replying.
Yes, PD cam lobe wear is an issue:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/camshaft-lobe-wear-inspection-and-replacement-on-tdi-pd-engine/

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=241279

As far as posting a report, I just export the Blackstone report without personal information by checking the box on their website, then I screenshot the report, save as JPG, host it on Imgur, and link the image file.
Bry1216, read some of those threads and then head over this thread >>> http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=344383 Frank is GRRRRREAT!
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Good discussion. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Tikal, For a pd I am pretty sure
the 5w-40 with as high a VI possible is the way to go. If you were all highway I would say you could make the 5W-30 507 work.
But I am now a firm believer that as soon as the rpms drop below 1800 rpm wear is going to take place. This wear is due to contaminants in the oil and slight contact that is taking place when the nose of the cam is nearing or dropping from maximum lift( wears center of lifter).
That is why both Franko6 and Colt have both gone to the billet cam that has a deeper induction hardening to help reduce wear of the cam.
Notice I said help.
I have a much cheaper cam and it is not as hard but hard enough and i need the viscosity of the high index 5w-40 below freezing and at the HTHS of
150 C.
The Renewable 5w-40 is just another one of the things I have done that is helping me.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Another impressive 10k OCI on Mobil1 TDT used in my '15 Golf (w/DPF deleted). Air filter was changed during this run as well as upgraded to GTD1752vrk ceramic ball bearing turbo at about 5k into the interval. Very pleased with this! Car has 71k miles now.

 
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James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
The mobile TDT seems to have sheared from 14 to 12 csk, it is now a 30 wt. oil, probably sheared down in crank bearings. Iron wear is good but oil consumption is surprisingly high for the 40 wt. oil. I think you would be better served with a higher velocity index 5w-40 in the 13 cst at 100 C range.

You would possibly improve start up wear and reduce oil consumption. I think the oil is to thick for the oil rings to control.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Have always had to add about a quart no matter which oil in this car and a previous '15 GSW. It's been my understanding that TDT has always been a very light 40 wt oil as well. I'll have to look at a UOA from my Jetta to compare.
 

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
reply, definitely don't change. TDT is a great highway oil. It just would not work for me. I just went back and noticed I have said the same thing on your first oil change before you gave me the highway info. Short trips not the best. I need something that can handle start up wear and under 1800 rpm cam wear. For your situation don't even think about changing now that you know it is working for you.
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Latest report for the Golf. Currently at ~68k miles, full delete was done @ 30k miles.

I labeled which oil I used at the top of each column. They are all 507 oils btw.

Oil Report April 2018 by DerekG710, on Flickr
 
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DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Why the shorter OCI? Your numbers support 10k miles easily.
I had planned to compare all the 507 oils and since I changed the Castrol "early" I based the rest on that usage interval (I messed up on the M1 because I forgot to change it before a 1500 mile highway road trip). I didn't know how well they would all fair if I went straight to 10k OCI's so I changed early for that reason.

Now that I have gone through most of the 507 oils I'm still planning on keeping 7-8k intervals mainly because my driving situation has changed. With our second child due next month most road trips/visiting family 3 hours away will be in the 2018 Tiguan we just bought. The Golf will probably see less highway miles since my commute to school is 6 miles of 45mph roads. Other than day trips/weekend trips to go mountain biking alone; most of my long distance driving will be in the Tig now.
 

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
I am going out on a limb here but it looks like the M1 is your best oil here. Usually your carry over wear is in the 15% range and look at the drop in aluminum. What M1 are you using and driving conditions.
 

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
I am going out on a limb here but it looks like the M1 is your best oil here. Usually your carry over wear is in the 15% range and look at the drop in aluminum. What M1 are you using and driving conditions.

Let me go back and check my notes/journal when I get home and I can tell you the type of driving I did on that OCI.

I used the Mobil 1 ESP 507.00
 

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta

DerekG

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
'13 4dr Golf TDI 6-speed manual
Research shows that boron is an anti-oxidant as well as a anti-wear.
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:990746/FULLTEXT01.pdf
go to internet page 48 plus
some very interesting tables on ZDDP and Boron concentrations.
That's pretty cool.

"There are two possible reasons for the efficient antiwear performance of the boron compounds as compared with ZnDTP. First, these boron compounds contain only two sulphur atoms while ZnDTP contains four sulphur atoms in the molecule.

The excess of sulphur in additive or base oil may cause chemical corrosion of steel surfaces. Second, boron compounds contain the alkyl borate group in the molecule that enhances the antiwear ability of these additives and inhibits corrosive actions of sulphur even at higher concentrations of these additives in
the base oil."

So I checked my records and it looks like ~4000 miles of that OCI was with a fully loaded car and roof box, ~1000 miles of towing my ~1700# Scamp and the rest was just a normal mix of city and highway unloaded.


Also, related to the post post I quoted of your's about the M1. I did the emissions delete at 30k miles, so the ~9k mile run on the Mobil 1 was the first full OCI of the car completely deleted. I think I'm going to try M1 again next time and see how it compares.
 
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Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
Latest UOA for my 15 GSW. Switched from Castrol to Total for this one. No reason other than it was the cheapest kit from ID Parts. I'm completely stock tune with all emissions gear still in place. Thrilled with the report.


 

jerrymander

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Location
Cowford, FL
TDI
2011 Golf Reborn Edition, 2015 Golf, 2011 Golf w/ Factory Crushed Option
That does look great! Some questions for you...

1) What is the unitID? Inquiring minds what to know. :D
2) Assumption is that this was Castrol LL03 VW oil?
3) Assumption is that you have stop-sale car, so do you know if the dealer changed, before you bought, the factory fill oil or not? (I confirmed mine was changed before taking delivery)

I'm due for my first and only dealer oil change (free is free and I actually like the dealership and service group) next week and then my plan is to send a sample at 10k as my baseline (it should be which should be totally free of "break-in" metals) and switch to Schaeffers 8008 and see how the next 10k analysis looks.

In my MK5 CRD the VW 507 oil was usually trashed after, right after, the 10k run so I've never really been a fan. My DPF had failed so I was lucky enough to get to switch over to the great Mobil Delvac ESP 1 oil (ran it on my MK5 PD for years) in my car for the last 70k mile of my ownership until it went back to VW and I got my stop-sale GSW. When I chatted with a pioneer on the VW valve train design and oiling system, and he recommends Schaeffers over Delvac, I had to give it a shot. I grabbed me a case and will proceed to pile on as many miles as fast as I can to get the next 10k done. Lol What can I say, I like to drive and I can't wait to get my Fumoto valve installed, Schaeffers oil in and a UOA done. :D:D
Didn't see your post until just now, rarely visit the forum. I have a second analysis I can post tomorrow when I get home.

My unit ID is POS Golf because I am underwhelmed by the Mk7 in comparison to the Mk6. Little things bug the hell out of me, especially the finishing quality of the vehicle. Rattles galore. I am guessing this was Castrol because it was a stop-sale. I have no idea if the dealership changed the oil because they - O'Steen in Jacksonville - are scumlords. I just wanted my car. I'm glad you found a dealership you like. O'Steen put 505 oil in my Mk6 and I never returned.

I changed the oil with Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, then Shell Rotella T6 5w40 after I got my emission system neutered.
 

Mrrogers1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Location
Omaha NEEEBRASKA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT, 2015 Golf Sportwagen S TDI DSG
First UOA after switching to Schaeffers 8008, looking forward to the second one to see how well the numbers shake out after being away from the LL03 for good.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
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Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014

Oh dear, doesn't look good. Emissions recall isnt agreeing with it. Emission recall done at 51k kms

3rd oil sample dealers gave me wrong oil. 2009+ oil apperently is a bit different
 

tdiman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Location
bridgeport wv
TDI
jetta 2015 sel grey / black interior
Is there anyone adding oil between services ? Mine used a half quart in 8000 miles not to concerned I would think that’s in normal range so where I’m going with this is how does that affect oil analysis ?And is any one doing 20,000 miles oil changes by looking at these results look like a no brainer.
 
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