TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

SFHGolfTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
SHF,

The oil looks pretty clean. More likely just the WOT running after you got the tune. I'd expect the Pb to return to normal next time around. Blackstone loves their "particle streak" theory, but I think it's a fairly rare occurence since the oil has to go thru the filter first.

I've seen a number of TDI's running 15k intervals on the 5w-40, HD diesel oils. So that shouldn't be an issue with a good running engine.
Thanks! That's reassuring. And once again, welcome back.
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4, MK6
*Severe* Report
Oxidation levels are high but wear numbers are good. Any thoughts? What does this mean?

My driving consists of quite a bit of highway but there was a few hours, <5, of Atlanta traffic.

Oil being utilized is Pennzoil Euro 507 compliant 5-30 and had 10,400 miles
Last oil sample was high potassium but that has come back into normal range.

Seeing as the wear numbers are good I believe the saying should be applied, drive more worry less.


 
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jon_slider

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
California
TDI
1996 2.5 AEL TDi. 2003 Jetta TDi Wagon
Oxidation levels are high but wear numbers are good. Any thoughts? What does this mean?
to me it means change oil sooner
it has been hot, and you put over 10k miles on the oil

the report says to watch for hot operation, and too long time and or miles on the oil

change it (always also filter) at 7500 instead, at least when in summer heat.. just my opinion… retest and confirm if that solves the oxidation problem

You have a stage 2 Tune… have you considered changing your oil every 5k miles? I recommend Shell Rotella T6 5-40btw
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4, MK6
to me it means change oil sooner
it has been hot, and you put over 10k miles on the oil

the report says to watch for hot operation, and too long time and or miles on the oil

change it (always also filter) at 7500 instead, at least when in summer heat.. just my opinion… retest and confirm if that solves the oxidation problem

You have a stage 2 Tune… have you considered changing your oil every 5k miles? I recommend Shell Rotella T6 5-40btw
While I do have a stage 2 tune, I drive it very conservatively. It wasn't done for performance but rather longevity.

I've thought about Rotella, just not pulled the trigger. This change I went to Liqui Moly as AARodriquez had it in stock.

Where is the breaking point on Oxidation? Last time it was 24 which was ok, this time 32. How bad is that?
 
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jon_slider

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
California
TDI
1996 2.5 AEL TDi. 2003 Jetta TDi Wagon
Where is the breaking point on Oxidation? Last time it was 24 which was ok, this time 32. How bad is that?
no idea, other than they called it severe, and its worse than last time

you did not answer the air condition question.. it goes to heat generation in your usage climate

heat=oxydation
heat from going fast, being hot outside, going slow and go, using air conditioning, adding performance tunes.. what else do you need to hear to reduce your oil change interval and stop screwing around with off brands when you Know Rotella Rules! LOL

do whatever works for you
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4, MK6
It has been hot and I do run the AC. Engine coolant temp runs a steady 198.

These off brand oils are 507 rated, Rotella isn't. While I no longer need the low ash I'll likely stick with a 507 just in case. Just not many running Rotella in the CRs
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver
*Severe* Report
Oxidation levels are high but wear numbers are good. Any thoughts? What does this mean?
The base numbers (TBN) are good in both samples, suggesting that the oil still had lots of life remaining.
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Ps rumors,

The oil is moderately oxidized, hence this sample is a bit thicker than the last and oxidation is higher (50 abs/cm is considered the limit). However it hasn't thickened up to a 40wt and the TBN shows you still have some reserve detergency (I'd use a lower limit of 3.0 from this lab). With fall and winter use, the oxidation should drop a bit the next time around. I think you're fine with the 10k interval.

Are you using biodiesel blend? That could explain the elevated Potassium in the previous test.

TS
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
TDIPilot4U,

Wear is a bit higher than average, but is consistent in these two tests. Other than some fuel wash down the cylinders (lowering the oils flashpoint), there are no oblivious issues. If you do lots of short trip, stop and go driving you will see directionally higher wear metals. Many of the newer TDI engines show higher metals than I'm used to seeing, but they seem to do fine.

You could try a shorter change interval of 8000 miles, but I wouldn't expect a big improvement. A strong dose of fuel injector cleaner with a full tank of fuel might help too.

TS
 

Nativefx

Active member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Location
Oregon
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6MT
Here is my most recent Blackstone report at around 118k miles for my 2012 Passat TDi. I have been using the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L for about the last 4-5 oil changes and all have been roughly 10k OCI. The previous oil change shown at about 50k was using Liqui-Moly Top Tec 4200.

They recommend going out to 12k miles on the next oil change but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that given the higher aluminum numbers. I think they have finally updated the "averages" for our particular engine, which doesn't show such a drastic difference, but it is still somewhat higher.

Any thoughts?


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TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Nativfx,

Results look fine, but I'd stick with the 10k changes. You want some reserve detergency (TBN) to keep the engine deposits to a minimum.

Wish I knew where all the aluminum comes from in these engines...?
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4, MK6
Ps rumors,

The oil is moderately oxidized, hence this sample is a bit thicker than the last and oxidation is higher (50 abs/cm is considered the limit). However it hasn't thickened up to a 40wt and the TBN shows you still have some reserve detergency (I'd use a lower limit of 3.0 from this lab). With fall and winter use, the oxidation should drop a bit the next time around. I think you're fine with the 10k interval.

Are you using biodiesel blend? That could explain the elevated Potassium in the previous test.

TS
I ran a single tank of "could be B5 to B20" biodiesel during the previous oil interval plus using opti-lube xl. I stopped using opti-lube and have not run bio since.

Thanks for the input
 

TDIpilot4u

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
TDIPilot4U,

Wear is a bit higher than average, but is consistent in these two tests. Other than some fuel wash down the cylinders (lowering the oils flashpoint), there are no oblivious issues. If you do lots of short trip, stop and go driving you will see directionally higher wear metals. Many of the newer TDI engines show higher metals than I'm used to seeing, but they seem to do fine.

You could try a shorter change interval of 8000 miles, but I wouldn't expect a big improvement. A strong dose of fuel injector cleaner with a full tank of fuel might help too.

TS
Thanks for the feedback! Have been doing a little more stop and go driving lately.
 

bobt2382

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 CW GOLF 4DR 6MT TDI
I ran a single tank of "could be B5 to B20" biodiesel during the previous oil interval plus using opti-lube xl. I stopped using opti-lube and have not run bio since.

Thanks for the input
I've been trying to determine where the high levels of potassium are coming from in my TDI over the last few years. No coolant loss and I seriously doubt any seepage via the head gasket. I used lots of B20 and always dosed with Optilube. I may have to reconsider the use of both. Thanks for the info TS and psrumors.
 

Todd_y

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Location
Vancouver Island
TDI
2012 Golf Highline mt
My latest oil sample at 90k km. 1% fuel dilution has returned.

This is a 2012 Golf 5 dr 6sp manual, likely running 60% hwy, with the remainder mixed rural/low speed driving. Almost zero urban stop/go, but more 15-minute short trips than are likely ideal.

(Still looks to me like when I bought the car at 30k km, the dealer didn't do the 30k service as they claimed, and the initial oil sample that I thought had 15k on it was actually 15 k plus the 8k from the previous service before it went on the lot given the V100 and V40 levels from the initial sample. But I am a conspiracy theorist.)

What say you oil guys about the 1% fuel dilution? Everything else looks OK at a glance...



You might wonder why the km interval is all over the map, initially I wanted to see what the recommended 15k looked like, got freaked by the metals that showed in that sample, did a couple shorter intervals (7.5k/8k km), and when the metals were showing as calming down on these samples, I have since done 10k km intervals at 70k/80k/90k.

Still wonder about the fuel dilution, perhaps that warrants going back to an 8k interval? Could interrupted regens be causing the fuel dilution?
 
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h2oskier

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Location
Hemphill, TX
TDI
2011 VW Jetta TDI
2011 Jetta TDI - Iron Level 3.5 Times Higher Than Universal Averages

This is for my 2011 Jetta TDI manual transmission with 92,919 miles and 7,186 miles on oil analysis. I use Castrol SLX Professional LL03 5w-30 for every oil change and I replace the oil filter with OEM Mann filters. As well, all manufacturer's suggested maintenance and maintenance intervals have been completed and completed timely. I have some ideas, though I'm not sure why the iron has consistently been so high.

 
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Hyates

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
SOLD
High iron and aluminum

Hi. Please excuse this large image. I really don't know how to do this :confused:

Our 2012 Golf has had high iron and aluminum in the oil for some time and the metal count isn't really going down.

Oil is changed at 15,000 km (9300 mile) intervals. Oil is Total Ineo Long-Life 5W-30 and have used it since the first oil change.

Is this engine wearing out?

Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks,

H.


 
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Mrrogers1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Location
Omaha NEEEBRASKA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT, 2011 Jetta TDI DSG, 2015 Golf Sportwagen S TDI DSG
This is for my 2011 Jetta TDI manual transmission with 92,919 miles and 7,186 miles on oil analysis. I use Castrol SLX Professional LL03 5w-30 for every oil change and I replace the oil filter with OEM Mann filters. As well, all manufacturer's suggested maintenance and maintenance intervals have been completed and completed timely. I have some ideas, though I'm not sure why the iron has consistently been so high.

Very interesting.... I wonder if there are any guys who actually had a HPFP go out that had done at least 1 UOA? I also wonder if running a quality additive (lubricant for the fuel system such as Howes or Opti-lube) would have any impact, assuming it is the HPFP as they have somewhat alluded to.
 

h2oskier

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Location
Hemphill, TX
TDI
2011 VW Jetta TDI
Mrrogers1,
I've used OPT-S1 (Opti-Lube Summer Blend Diesel Improver) 100% on some samples and 0% on another sample and there was no change in iron levels. The only way I've been able to get the iron level to decrease, is to change the oil at smaller mileage intervals.
-h2oSkier
 

Todd_y

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Location
Vancouver Island
TDI
2012 Golf Highline mt
Hi. Please excuse this large image. I really don't know how to do this :confused:

Our 2012 Golf has had high iron and aluminum in the oil for some time and the metal count isn't really going down.

Oil is changed at 15,000 km (9300 mile) intervals. Oil is Total Ineo Long-Life 5W-30 and have used it since the first oil change.

Is this engine wearing out?
Wow. My iron at 90k is at 27. Something is drastically wrong I think.
 

Hyates

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
SOLD
Way over...

Hi Todd. Yes, it's over twice the maximum iron permitted according the oil lab, and about 6 times more than what most folks are getting here for these engines.

I'm not sure where the aluminum comes from in the engine, but there's WAY too much of that as well.

I've mentioned this to my dealer, and supplied the analysis reports. They discussed it with the zone reps. My dealer was told that until the engine fails there's nothing to do. We do have a 6 year/160,000 km (100,000 miles) 5-star VW extended warranty on this car, but we were planning to keep it longer than that. This changes a few of those ideas.

H.
 

Todd_y

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Location
Vancouver Island
TDI
2012 Golf Highline mt
Any issues with condensation in the intercooler? Could it have hydrolocked slightly (?)and bent a valve or connecting rod?
 

Hyates

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
SOLD
Hmmm...

Any issues with condensation in the intercooler? Could it have hydrolocked slightly (?)and bent a valve or connecting rod?
I did have a frozen intercooler symptom, and the Intercooler kit TSB was performed on the car at around 45,000 km (28,000 miles). I started doing oil analysis at around 43000 km and the oil and other metals were already high.

I just think the motor is wearing itself out.

H.
 

Todd_y

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Location
Vancouver Island
TDI
2012 Golf Highline mt
I did have a frozen intercooler symptom, and the Intercooler kit TSB was performed on the car at around 45,000 km (28,000 miles). I started doing oil analysis at around 43000 km and the oil and other metals were already high.

I just think the motor is wearing itself out.

H.
But why? They don't just wear out unless there is something damaged or incorrectly installed.

It would make sense that your metals are high if you slightly bent a connecting rod due to hydrolock. The installation of the IC kit would have no bearing on your oil report, it might have only minimized the risk of further hydrolock.

It would only take one shot of water at some point before you started sampling to bend a rod and cause iron (from the cylinder bore and rod/crankshaft) and aluminum (from the piston) to occur in your oil sample. The crankshaft bearing associated with the bent rod would also wear abnormally, sending more copper and lead into the sample, which you also have in the report.

Removal of the oil pan to inspect the rods/crank/cylinder walls from below might show something that could be repaired and save the car.

Reading this reminds me to drain the IC this weekend, I think I might try installing a drain into the lower hose using a threaded steel tire valve stem.
 
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Hyates

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
SOLD
Yup, it's a problem...

Hi Todd. I agree that there is something wrong with the motor. To do a tear down is on my dime, so with a 6 yr/160,000 VW extended warranty, I'll wait to do that. VW Reps say they won't touch it until something fails. So, I'll have to wait.

The engine appears to run fine. Performance is great, mileage is as good as ever. I'm sure my NOx is doing fine ;) Oil consumption is within reality, but seems to be increasing slightly. There's no funny noises coming from the engine.

I do disagree, however, that this engine is wearing due to potential hydrolock. My oil analysis PRIOR to this situation already had high metal counts, so I am discounting that theory. To clarify, the engine never did hydrolock. I was able to start it after three tries or so. But, again, this occurred after my oil analysis that previously showed higher metal counts.

Do you have the intercooler anti-freeze kit installed in your car? We've had mild winters since the kit was installed, so I really don't know if it works or not.

H.
 

Todd_y

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Location
Vancouver Island
TDI
2012 Golf Highline mt
Hi Todd. I agree that there is something wrong with the motor. To do a tear down is on my dime, so with a 6 yr/160,000 VW extended warranty, I'll wait to do that. VW Reps say they won't touch it until something fails. So, I'll have to wait.

The engine appears to run fine. Performance is great, mileage is as good as ever. I'm sure my NOx is doing fine ;) Oil consumption is within reality, but seems to be increasing slightly. There's no funny noises coming from the engine.

I do disagree, however, that this engine is wearing due to potential hydrolock. My oil analysis PRIOR to this situation already had high metal counts, so I am discounting that theory. To clarify, the engine never did hydrolock. I was able to start it after three tries or so. But, again, this occurred after my oil analysis that previously showed higher metal counts.

Do you have the intercooler anti-freeze kit installed in your car? We've had mild winters since the kit was installed, so I really don't know if it works or not.

H.
Perhaps a manufacturing mistake, or someone on the engine manufacturing line in Wolfsburg is lost their Damasko into your crankase...

I don't have the IC fix, my local dealer can't really balance a tire properly let alone install/diagnose/repair things, so I stay away unless I am buying oil and filters.

I am installing a winter front on the lower grill, and if I still get water in the IC pipes at oil changes, I will fabricate a drain. Good luck with the car, I hope if it eventually eats itself to death your experience with VW and your extended warranty is satisfactory.
 
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